Fair enough. I can change it up no problem, I just want them to acknowledge the problem exists. Thus far - 3 phone calls and 2 service visits, they say "this is normal behavior get over it" and demand I produce video of the events. So, it's a fair ask and I still have work to do I guess. *sigh*Adding basic fixed-speed CC in the car in addition to ACC/TACC seems like the obvious immediate solution. That should be a permanent feature, no matter how much better TACC gets. I actually didn't realize until I bought my Model 3 that it *doesn't* have a way to enable basic CC, I assumed that every car with ACC (not just Teslas) would still have a way to use basic CC.
I've used TACC in Model S loaners over the years, AP1 and AP2, and it always worked well enough that I never went looking for basic CC, I just assumed (wrongly) it was there. I never took those loaners on the kind of straight, empty two-lane country roads that sound worst for VO TACC, but I would have naturally gone looking for basic CC if I had, it never occurred to me to use ACC/TACC on two lane roads...but it also never occurred to me that basic CC would be absent.
If Tesla insists that basic CC isn't needed then they damn well better make (VO) TACC work reliably on all roads. I would be fine with just using basic CC for two-lane / non-divided roads though!
@jama999 The wording in that petition sounds almost like it's asking for basic CC to temporarily replace VO TACC. I wouldn't want that at all, most of my CC use is on divded highways and while VO TACC is definitely less smooth than most any radar-based ACC/TACC I've used, it's still usable and worthwhile over basic CC.
Btw my radarless S NEVER phantom brakes
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Phantom braking so bad I want to return my car
- Thread starter RHINO SKIN SOL
- Start date
Oh wait so much talk about how wide spread it is and happening so often and you couldn’t make a video of that happening for Tesla to investigate further? Amazing! But you had time to make a petition. Kind of backward thinking not?
The Subaru EyeSight (VO since inception) system doesn't have "basic" CC (or PB). If EyeSight shuts down CC is disabled. I have no experience with their new system which does lane centering.
I have two radar Teslas and they do not phantom brake. They did early on like two years ago but it has gotten almost bulletproof at this point.
I posted a video of it clearly happening repeatedly. Your continued denial is surreal.
Ideally one would ease one’s convictions in the face of clear evidence to the contrary rather than continue to dig a larger hole of resistance. You know .. there is a middle ground where one can admit possibility of a problem, you don’t need to be 100% for or against..
Trolling. Very cool. Yeah, when I am driving down the road on a roadtrip at 80mph I am totally thinking about filming whats going on in my car when it may or may not do it once or 10 times every 50 miles.
This is something Ive never encountered until I owned my Tesla. Blind loyalty regardless of circumstances. Dont get me wrong - I am a pretty big fanboy too, but the lack of communication and denial from them is amazing and a lot of its customers play right into it.
As I have said many times, people will eventually "Vote with their feet" - EG go buy something else - if this stuff does not get cleared up.
Happy Tuesday to everyone.
J
True Tesla loyalty means you move someplace with roads that don't trigger phantom braking. Your car > your home. Get your priorities straight!
Obviously very hard to do.Apple users. My entire house has been Apple for almost 15 years. Early on I followed a lot of apple news and read apple forums. Apple also has issues and always has. But any suggestion of how apple could do better or needs to fix something was similarly immediately attacked by cultists.
The big similarities being:
“I don’t have this problem, therefore it doesn’t exist”
“I don’t care about this problem, therefore nobody should care about it”
Besides being frightening how humans are so susceptible to cult behavior with *anything* (even something as mundane as brands of kitchen knives), it also speaks to the tendency to develop extremely biased and myopic views with only anecdotal evidence.
Anyway I don’t read apple forums anymore. I just use their products and grumble to myself about whatever doesn’t currently work correctly.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
If you are coming from the perspective of getting them to admit fault of any kind (especially with no documented evidence) you will likely get nowhere, as the lawyers would not allow that. Phantom brake usually is hard to prove because it isn't necessarily easy to reproduce, especially for service personnel, which usually has a limited area they will do test drives to verify issues.
Asking for a feature request may get somewhere, but usually only with getting attention of Elon Musk. But it seems on the particular subject of Vision they are banking on continuing working on it and it seems unlikely they would allow regular CC.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I remember newer Audis are like that too, if you have ACC you can't revert back to regular CC. Probably idea is to avoid mode confusion.
Possibly, although I find non-adaptive cruise-control tiresome which some folks might interpret as attractive to litigation. Our MINI had "plain" CC which was of no value on the I-90 in NY and small value on the 407-ETR in southern Ontario (around 2010). The 407 was notable because traffic was widely spaced, relatively sparse and everyone was going 80MPH/130KPH.
mtndrew1
Active Member
I experienced the vision-only phantom braking for the first time yesterday. Not the little brake events I’m used to but where the car just dropped anchor for no reason.
I’m on FSD beta so my radar was disabled in conjunction with my FSD opt in.
These phantom braking events in quick succession were on a divided highway (110S leaving downtown Los Angeles) with no obstructions, construction, or merging traffic. Even though I’m an FSD beta tester the highway software is the same as production non-radar firmware.
This was a pretty jarring experience as you’ve all mentioned. This was not subtle braking; had a car been tailgating me it may have resulted in a collision. Fortunately my foot was near enough to the accelerator to slam it down to the floor to reduce the likelihood of a crash.
Fortunately, because I’m in the beta program I was able to take snapshots for the autopilot team. They need to fix this issue, quickly.
I’m on FSD beta so my radar was disabled in conjunction with my FSD opt in.
These phantom braking events in quick succession were on a divided highway (110S leaving downtown Los Angeles) with no obstructions, construction, or merging traffic. Even though I’m an FSD beta tester the highway software is the same as production non-radar firmware.
This was a pretty jarring experience as you’ve all mentioned. This was not subtle braking; had a car been tailgating me it may have resulted in a collision. Fortunately my foot was near enough to the accelerator to slam it down to the floor to reduce the likelihood of a crash.
Fortunately, because I’m in the beta program I was able to take snapshots for the autopilot team. They need to fix this issue, quickly.
Yeah! We finally got waypoints added to the nav!!!!
Though I will now complain that I cannot remove waypoints or reorder them!!!
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Yeah, waypoints is a perfect example. Someone tweeted Elon every single day about waypoints until he finally gave in (even though initially he said no, saying the calendar would handle it).Yeah! We finally got waypoints added to the nav!!!!
Though I will now complain that I cannot remove waypoints or reorder them!!!
I tried it out quickly having just got the update this weekend and it's still a bit awkward to use as the UI doesn't make it really clear whether the address you are entering is for a waypoint or for final destination. It seems you have to enter final destination and then waypoint. I also noticed even if final destination is a supercharger, it doesn't precondition until it reaches that leg (which defeats one use case I was hoping to use it for), but having it is still better than nothing.
Thanks for the report.
Even though you don't drive on two lane highways much, my co-worker with a radar equipped model 3 SR+ says that on two lane highways the PB was bad when he first started with FSD Beta (he didn't have any significant PB before he got FSD Beta) but that it has improved some with the last update he had... not sure what software he is on now.
I have hope that VO won't be a disaster forever, but the way it was rolled out was not good at all. I started out with really good TACC and AP when I first got my MYP with the only real annoyances being that I was limited to 70 mph on AP and the follow distance being limited to setting 3. Since then TACC performance has degraded horribly with the only real improvements being raising the AP speed limit to 80 and allowing a follow distance of 2.
Right now, as it stands TACC is un-usable on strait dry two lane highways... if it ever gets back to where it was when I purchased the car I will be happy... what some people here (not talking about you) can't understand is my inability to recommend the currently available VO Model 3 or Model Y in the hopes that they will fix the problems in the next year or so. After they get the problems fixed I will be happy to recommend the VO cars to anyone asking for purchasing advice.
Keith
So without going to FSD Beta you are now limited to 80 mph max when using Auto Pilot and limited to 2 as a minimum follow distance?
Keith
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