Phantom braking so bad I want to return my car

[sleepydoc]

I agree that my last one, and M3P was flawless, never had issues, rarely had phantom braking.
Still, nothing personal, but ... That list is practically a perfect summation of the worst mainstream vehicle makers. If you remove Mazda and replace it with Fiat, it would be perfect. Not really a good set of yardsticks for a Tesla.

The best way to love your car is to drive a Chrysler first!

 

[advocate8]

Mostly it boils down to either #1 not having features that are standard in other cars even as an option, or #2 fumbling the implementation of features that other cars do with ease.

Examples of #1 are rear cross traffic alert, blind spot indicators in the mirrors, birds eye view for parking, gauge cluster or HUD in front of driver, Android Auto / Apple Carplay, there are others that I can't think of right now but I am sure other people in this thread can come up with some.

Examples of #2 are customer service, soft paint, adaptive cruise control, automatic high beam headlights, automatic rain sensing windshield wipers, suspension tuning, and once again others that I am forgetting that other people in the thread will fill in.

The frantic beeping of the blind spot warning did save me from an idiot without his headlights on at dusk when I was changing lanes tonight, but if I had a light in the mirror I would never have tried to change lanes into that spot.

Keith

Also, the cars themselves ... and I'm talking about the interiors, suspensions, chassis etc. -- aren’t done as well as a plain vanilla Toyota, let alone BMW, Mercedes, Lexus etc. The drivetrains are world class. The technology is best in world for EVs. But the rest of the car, meh.

 

[sleepydoc]

Also, the cars themselves ... and I'm talking about the interiors, suspensions, chassis etc. -- aren’t done as well as a plain vanilla Toyota, let alone BMW, Mercedes, Lexus etc. The drivetrains are world class. The technology is best in world for EVs. But the rest of the car, meh.

Some of the tech is great, some not so much. The concept and ability to do an over the air update is brilliant. All of my other cars a firmware update meant sitting for 3 hours at the dealership. Their latest attempt at a UI is a nice case study in how not to design a UI, and TACC is hands down the worst version of adaptive cruise control I've ever driven (It's so far below I'd venture to say it's the worst on the market.)

The bright spot in this is there's hope for improvement - they've already fixed a couple of the problems with the V11 UI.

Edit: I'm actually ok with the interior. I wish they had a grey or tan option for the seats but other than that no complaints with either the styling or the fit or finish. Styling is definitely a matter of taste, though.

 

[DCGOO]

I had an appointment last week to have my heat pump replaced - booked it online, sent a screen shot of the error message, and confirmed the loaner car. It was very slick and worked perfectly for me. Still, I can see times where sending text messages would be cumbersome and actually talking to someone on the phone would be far more productive and efficient. Both methods have their place and that's part of people's complaint. Just like the times when you actually need to talk to a person at the bank and all you get is an endless phone tree.

Speaking with someone on the phone might seem like it might be more productive for you, but think about the poor tech completely tied up with you, not being able to work on anything else. They could potentially have hundreds of folks calling in. Tesla delivered nearly a million cars last year, despite chip shortages and Covid. I think it is amazing they can keep their customer sat scores as high as they are. I do grouse a bit about sometimes missing a notification from the app. But that is about me, more than Tesla. I am happy to do my part and try to make the interaction as smooth and painless, for them, as possible.

I cannot remember the last time I needed to actually speak with someone at my bank, maybe 10 years ago? I do sometimes use chat applications, but the rep on the other end might have a dozen or more conversations open. I try to use the tools that are provided.

 

[WhiteWi]

...and proving my point again.

You have no points just your own preferences. Just like I have my own.

 

[TheLex]

Speaking with someone on the phone might seem like it might be more productive for you, but think about the poor tech completely tied up with you, not being able to work on anything else. They could potentially have hundreds of folks calling in. Tesla delivered nearly a million cars last year, despite chip shortages and Covid. I think it is amazing they can keep their customer sat scores as high as they are. I

A million cars is far lower than volumes that GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc., deliver. And those companies answer the phones. BTW the million Teslas sold is a worldwide figure. They only sold 352k in the US. GM sold 2.2 million in the US. Heck even Subaru outsells Tesla here. And Subaru has pretty good customer service. Tesla ranks 27 out of 28 makes in the JD Power Consumer Satisfaction Survey.

 

[WhiteWi]

All I can say Tesla checks everything I want and need from the car. Completely satisfied that is why I own M3, owned Model S and soon will own Y and sometime in the future Cybertruck. If some people feel different about Tesla there is more competition than ever now available (somewhat) go ahead and make a switch if Tesla ended up bad experience for you. Wish ya all luck.

 

[WhiteWi]

A million cars is far lower than volumes that GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc., deliver. And those companies answer the phones. BTW the million Teslas sold is a worldwide figure. They only sold 352k in the US. GM sold 2.2 million in the US. Heck even Subaru outsells Tesla here. And Subaru has pretty good customer service. Tesla ranks 27 out of 28 makes in the JD Power Consumer Satisfaction Survey.

Wrong. Not consumer satisfaction. Reliability.
Also how many EVs any of those companies sold ? Exactly.
Why would I need to call stealership? My previous ICE cars I just set it up my appointments online.

 

[TheLex]

Cool. But if my Tesla has no need to be serviced or have any serious problems in over 3 years I have little interest about how great or bad customer services is. And what interaction I had were great in that regard. So once again just opinions. My Last Audi Q7 TDI was fully loaded and I didn’t find anything special about it for that price point beside the brand name and prefer my Tesla in every way and cheaper too both purchase price and long term expenses. Also yeah Audi Dealer ship were all up in my rear to make me feel taken care off while ripping me off with mega expensive services I had to do every year. No thanks they can keep that fake care act for themselves.

Your experience is a sample of 1. Did you buy your Q7 TDI new or used? Also it's not fair to compare the Tesla (a new design) with an Audi that was designed back in the early 2000's. Of course legacy ICE cars are going to be more expensive to maintain. That's a given. But that does not invalidate all the complaints about Tesla's lack of customer service (which you don't need apparently). For example, JD Power's Customer Satisfaction Survey ranks Tesla at 27 out of 28 for customer satisfaction. That's about as bad as it gets. And that's a large sample as compared to your sample of 1.

As for the phantom braking, it is indeed a serious issue. You can't couch it as an inconvenience. It's a giant fubar on Tesla's part and they have yet to correct this. Heck even CNN has written an article about it: Tesla's cruise control woes put damper on 'full self-driving' hopes

 

[TheLex]

Wrong. Not consumer satisfaction. Reliability.
Also how many EVs any of those companies sold ? Exactly.
Why would I need to call stealership? My previous ICE cars I just set it up my appointments online.

That's even worse! It's the 2nd least reliable vehicle lol. Great. You can run with that Mr. Chief Tesla Apologist.

 

[DCGOO]

A million cars is far lower than volumes that GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc., deliver. And those companies answer the phones. BTW the million Teslas sold is a worldwide figure. They only sold 352k in the US. GM sold 2.2 million in the US. Heck even Subaru outsells Tesla here. And Subaru has pretty good customer service. Tesla ranks 27 out of 28 makes in the JD Power Consumer Satisfaction Survey.

How many EVs did GM deliver last year? something like 24,000, only 26 in Q4. Plus owners were warned to not charge them fully or park them inside, because of their tendency to burst into flames. Not really a great story.

Consumer Reports last year listed the Tesla Model 3 single top vehicle in their list of "Most Satisfying Cars." Model S was number 3, Model Y was number 4. Even the Model X was 10th. All four shipping vehicles in the top 10.

Personally, I have a Model X and a Model Y on order.

 

[MP3Mike]

A million cars is far lower than volumes that GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda, etc., deliver. And those companies answer the phones.

Actually those companies don't answer the phone. They have ~20k dealerships, with ~2 million employees, that answer the phones on their behalf. (Not to mention ~140k used car dealers with who knows how many employees.)

 

[TheLex]

Actually those companies don't answer the phone. They have ~20k dealerships, with ~2 million employees, that answer the phones on their behalf. (Not to mention ~140k used car dealers with who knows how many employees.)

I was actually referring to Tesla "dealerships". Since Tesla doesn't use official dealerships, it's their service centers. By whatever name you want to refer to them by, they don't answer phone calls. Every other dealership does.

 

[TheLex]

How many EVs did GM deliver last year? something like 24,000, only 26 in Q4. Plus owners were warned to not charge them fully or park them inside, because of their tendency to burst into flames. Not really a great story.

Consumer Reports last year listed the Tesla Model 3 single top vehicle in their list of "Most Satisfying Cars." Model S was number 3, Model Y was number 4. Even the Model X was 10th. All four shipping vehicles in the top 10.

Personally, I have a Model X and a Model Y on order.

Last time I checked, an EV motor vehicle still qualifies as an automobile. Those other companies manufacture automobiles, both EV and ICE. Their dealers answer the phones and provide customer service at varying levels. I don't understand the need to defend and apologize for Tesla. Holding the company to the same standards that we hold other manufacturers will only improve the brand.

 

[WhiteWi]

Your experience is a sample of 1. Did you buy your Q7 TDI new or used? Also it's not fair to compare the Tesla (a new design) with an Audi that was designed back in the early 2000's. Of course legacy ICE cars are going to be more expensive to maintain. That's a given. But that does not invalidate all the complaints about Tesla's lack of customer service (which you don't need apparently). For example, JD Power's Customer Satisfaction Survey ranks Tesla at 27 out of 28 for customer satisfaction. That's about as bad as it gets. And that's a large sample as compared to your sample of 1.

As for the phantom braking, it is indeed a serious issue. You can't couch it as an inconvenience. It's a giant fubar on Tesla's part and they have yet to correct this. Heck even CNN has written an article about it: Tesla's cruise control woes put damper on 'full self-driving' hopes

To make you feel at ease my Q7 was brand new 2014 model paid in cash and I sold it 3 years later. How does it change anything?

 

[sleepydoc]

Actually those companies don't answer the phone. They have ~20k dealerships, with ~2 million employees, that answer the phones on their behalf. (Not to mention ~140k used car dealers with who knows how many employees.)

Yes, but someone at the dealer will answer the phone. Tesla wanted to overturn the dealership model, for good reason, but that means they also assume the service responsibilities of the dealerships.

How many EVs did GM deliver last year? something like 24,000, only 26 in Q4. Plus owners were warned to not charge them fully or park them inside, because of their tendency to burst into flames. Not really a great story.

Consumer Reports last year listed the Tesla Model 3 single top vehicle in their list of "Most Satisfying Cars." Model S was number 3, Model Y was number 4. Even the Model X was 10th. All four shipping vehicles in the top 10.

Personally, I have a Model X and a Model Y on order.

No one is claiming that the Bolt is a great car, they were just pointing out that using Tesla’s size or sales as an excuse not to answer the phone is a nonsensical argument.

Tesla was 4th from the bottom in the 2021 JD power dependability survey (they didn’t have a large enough sample size to include Tesla in the 2022 rankings.) Conversely, Tesla scored at the top of the JD Power EV ownership experience survey. Consumer reports put Tesla squarely at the bottom for reliability with Models S, X & Y sharing the basement with the Audi eTron. (The model 3 did better, managing average reliability.) At the same time, Consumer Reports ranked Tesla quite high on owner satisfaction. Oh, and Elon Musk also admits that Tesla has quality problems.

Reliability and satisfaction don’t really care whether the car is an EV or an ICE engine. Theoretically EVs should have fewer problems than ICE cars but that doesn’t always hold true. Are people actually trying to argue that we should put up with worse cars from Tesla (or any company) just because they’re EVs?

I like my Model Y. I enjoy driving it (mostly.) It’s fun to drive, handles well and fits my needs well. It also has the worst adaptive cruise on the market and a horrible suspension. I’m hardly alone in those complaints - actually, I would wager that people who don’t have issues with TACC are in the minority. (We hired a new woman at work and I mentioned how the adaptive cruise on our Tesla sucked but that on our Subaru worked perfectly. Spontaneously she said ‘we have the same combo and that’s the exact experience I’ve had with our cars, too.“ hmm.)

What people seem to have a hard time grasping is that it’s possible to love Tesla or to love your Tesla while still admitting its faults. Maybe that’s too much for some people to fathom.

 

[sleepydoc]

Wrong. Not consumer satisfaction. Reliability.
Also how many EVs any of those companies sold ? Exactly.
Why would I need to call stealership? My previous ICE cars I just set it up my appointments online.

So your rebuttal is pointing out that it’s actually Tesla’s reliability that’s horrible. LOL See my last post.

 

[WhiteWi]

So your rebuttal is pointing out that it’s actually Tesla’s reliability that’s horrible. LOL See my last post.

Did you buy Tesla based on that survey info? I bet you didn’t.

 

[TheLex]

To make you feel at ease my Q7 was brand new 2014 model paid in cash and I sold it 3 years later. How does it change anything?

It changes nothing because you attempted to compare a vehicle designed in the early 2000's with a much much newer vehicle.

 

[gt2690b]

Yes, but someone at the dealer will answer the phone. Tesla wanted to overturn the dealership model, for good reason, but that means they also assume the service responsibilities of the dealerships.

No one is claiming that the Bolt is a great car, they were just pointing out that using Tesla’s size or sales as an excuse not to answer the phone is a nonsensical argument.

Tesla was 4th from the bottom in the 2021 JD power dependability survey (they didn’t have a large enough sample size to include Tesla in the 2022 rankings.) Conversely, Tesla scored at the top of the JD Power EV ownership experience survey. Consumer reports put Tesla squarely at the bottom for reliability with Models S, X & Y sharing the basement with the Audi eTron. (The model 3 did better, managing average reliability.) At the same time, Consumer Reports ranked Tesla quite high on owner satisfaction. Oh, and Elon Musk also admits that Tesla has quality problems.

Reliability and satisfaction don’t really care whether the car is an EV or an ICE engine. Theoretically EVs should have fewer problems than ICE cars but that doesn’t always hold true. Are people actually trying to argue that we should put up with worse cars from Tesla (or any company) just because they’re EVs?

I like my Model Y. I enjoy driving it (mostly.) It’s fun to drive, handles well and fits my needs well. It also has the worst adaptive cruise on the market and a horrible suspension. I’m hardly alone in those complaints - actually, I would wager that people who don’t have issues with TACC are in the minority. (We hired a new woman at work and I mentioned how the adaptive cruise on our Tesla sucked but that on our Subaru worked perfectly. Spontaneously she said ‘we have the same combo and that’s the exact experience I’ve had with our cars, too.“ hmm.)

What people seem to have a hard time grasping is that it’s possible to love Tesla or to love your Tesla while still admitting its faults. Maybe that’s too much for some people to fathom.

Ford answers the phone and wastes my time and theirs... Took me 3 trips and 3 weeks to get my 4x4 working correctly and it's still messed up sounding ... I'd love to hear an example where over the phone scheduling with a typical dealer is better than what Tesla is doing