Phantom braking so bad I want to return my car

[sleepydoc]

Ford answers the phone and wastes my time and theirs... Took me 3 trips and 3 weeks to get my 4x4 working correctly and it's still messed up sounding ... I'd love to hear an example where over the phone scheduling with a typical dealer is better than what Tesla is doing

There are plenty of examples of Tesla service centers messing things up, too. Does that mean the app-based system is worthless? Of course not, because they’re completely unrelated unless you have difficulty understanding concepts.

Likewise no one argued that a phone-based reservation system is routinely better, just that there are occasions where talking to someone on the phone is preferable. Please read the arguments again and make a logical counter argument rather than conflating issues.

 

[PACEMD]

Both methods have their place and that's part of people's complaint. Just like the times when you actually need to talk to a person at the bank and all you get is an endless phone tree.

I know, right? The urgency of "this is a stick up" somehow gets lost.........

 

[Fourdoor]

Seems ya all complaining about things that you knew Tesla either don’t offer or you expected regular car when you bought Tesla. Easy to avoid if you did research. I purchased it with open mind and let it grew on me and I love the experience I get. If I was so disappointed as many of you seems are I would sell it ASAP especially with this crazy prices on used cars.
Soft paint, panel gaps lol I never ever even thought about it when I bought any of my cars. I walk around, look at the car if it looks good enough and no damage I am good to go. I am not going to stress over a car, life has more important stuff to worry about.
P.S.
Only thing I may agree that suspension is little bit harsh for my liking but I understand the reason why it is the way it is.

The problem is one of implementation even on many of the #1 issues listed. The sensors in the rear bumper would provide rear cross traffic alert if Tesla wanted them too. The cameras on any modern Tesla could provide birds eye view for parking if Tesla wanted them too. The problem is that the "most advanced auto company in the world" has the hardware, but lacks the software to provide these options. I find it sad that they are viewed (and still view themselves) as a leader when they are actually resting on their laurels and are about to be passed up by the near future offerings from the legacy auto makers. Even the pipe dream of FSD Beta is a side show. If it were going to be capable of SAE Level 4 Autonomy I would be amazed and appreciative of the efforts... heII, even level 3 would be worth the expenditure of resources... but it will not make that cut. The FSD Beta when it is finalized (LOL, software from Tesla being finalized is a bad joke) it will be a high functioning level 2 system. By SAE definition, if you as the person in the drivers seat are expected to monitor conditions and take over when needed it is a level 2 system. If it reaches the point that you don't have to look out the window, and can read a book or watch a movie while the car drives and you take over IF THE CAR ALERTS YOU is the cross over point to SAE Level 3.

When I say that Blue Cruise from Ford and Super Cruise from GM are just as good as Auto Pilot, with many of the features of the current iteration of FSD (not FSD Beta) people (not sure if you personally made this argument) complain that Blue Cruise and Super Cruise are only usable on roads that have been mapped into they system with high accuracy GPS... then when people complain about PB these people say out of the other side of their mouth that AP is only for use on limited access highways. Also, Blue Cruise and Super Cruise have "basic AP" level of autonomy on all roads, it is only the "hands off the wheel" driving that requires mapped out roads.

I want Tesla to do better because I want Tesla to remain a big player in the market, not because I hate Tesla. Your arguments for defending every Tesla flaw all boil down to "it doesn't affect me, so YOU are wrong"... this is a narrow minded view of the world at best.

Keith

 

[WhiteWi]

It changes nothing because you attempted to compare a vehicle designed in the early 2000's with a much much newer vehicle.

Lol why did you ask if it was new or used then?

 

[WhiteWi]

The problem is one of implementation even on many of the #1 issues listed. The sensors in the rear bumper would provide rear cross traffic alert if Tesla wanted them too. The cameras on any modern Tesla could provide birds eye view for parking if Tesla wanted them too. The problem is that the "most advanced auto company in the world" has the hardware, but lacks the software to provide these options. I find it sad that they are viewed (and still view themselves) as a leader when they are actually resting on their laurels and are about to be passed up by the near future offerings from the legacy auto makers. Even the pipe dream of FSD Beta is a side show. If it were going to be capable of SAE Level 4 Autonomy I would be amazed and appreciative of the efforts... heII, even level 3 would be worth the expenditure of resources... but it will not make that cut. The FSD Beta when it is finalized (LOL, software from Tesla being finalized is a bad joke) it will be a high functioning level 2 system. By SAE definition, if you as the person in the drivers seat are expected to monitor conditions and take over when needed it is a level 2 system. If it reaches the point that you don't have to look out the window, and can read a book or watch a movie while the car drives and you take over IF THE CAR ALERTS YOU is the cross over point to SAE Level 3.

When I say that Blue Cruise from Ford and Super Cruise from GM are just as good as Auto Pilot, with many of the features of the current iteration of FSD (not FSD Beta) people (not sure if you personally made this argument) complain that Blue Cruise and Super Cruise are only usable on roads that have been mapped into they system with high accuracy GPS... then when people complain about PB these people say out of the other side of their mouth that AP is only for use on limited access highways. Also, Blue Cruise and Super Cruise have "basic AP" level of autonomy on all roads, it is only the "hands off the wheel" driving that requires mapped out roads.

I want Tesla to do better because I want Tesla to remain a big player in the market, not because I hate Tesla. Your arguments for defending every Tesla flaw all boil down to "it doesn't affect me, so YOU are wrong"... this is a narrow minded view of the world at best.

Keith

Just want to point out that sensors in the bumper that Tesla has are not enough for cross traffic alert nor real blind spot monitoring bc all other companies use radars in the rear corners of the cars. That is one. Second bird view not possible with the way Tesla cams set up, for example missing front bumper cam. Whatever Elon promised won’t be your conventional bird side view. And third I will wait for a long time promise of Legacy companies passing Tesla and leaving behind for a little while more I guess. LoL.
Oh and narrow minded point of view if I don’t like my Tesla and so should everyone else is boring too.
FSD side of the argument doesn’t bother me I am not believer in robotaxi any time soon not bc it is not possible but bc Regulators will drag their feet to approve it for Tesla.

 

[Fourdoor]

Just want to point out that sensors in the bumper that Tesla has are not enough for cross traffic alert nor real blind spot monitoring bc all other companies use radars in the rear corners of the cars. That is one. Second bird view not possible with the way Tesla cams set up, for example missing front bumper cam. Whatever Elon promised won’t be your conventional bird side view. And third I will wait for a long time promise of Legacy companies passing Tesla and leaving behind for a little while more I guess. LoL.
Oh and narrow minded point of view if I don’t like my Tesla and so should everyone else is boring too.
FSD side of the argument doesn’t bother me I am not believer in robotaxi any time soon not bc it is not possible but bc Regulators will drag their feet to approve it for Tesla.

My 2017 Bolt has rear cross traffic alert and "real" blind spot monitoring using ultra sonic sensors, not radar, no reason Tesla can't do it. Elon gave a line of $hit about birds eye view? Consider me shocked!

Oh, don't worry, I am not waiting for YOU to admit Tesla has been passed by, THAT will never happen. Tesla is no longer the longest range, no longer the fastest charging, doesn't have the best autonomous system, Tesla NEVER HAD good customer service or the least expensive long range EV... when a manufacturer combines ALL of those features in one vehicle I will view Tesla as having been surpassed... I give it 5 years at most. HeII, Porsche from the legacy OEM's and Lucid as the new kid on the block both surpass Tesla in most categories already. Do you want Tesla to be relegated to the "less expensive, but not really affordable performance EV" category? Or do you want them to dominate the market?

I don't see anyone on these forums saying that everything about Tesla sucks and you shouldn't purchase one... I see people frustrated by basic functionality not working properly and venting their complaints. You don't have to validate "my feelings" (objective reality, not really about my feelings) to make them real, but saying that my frustrations with the TACC system are not valid because it doesn't affect you is just sad.

I don't hate Tesla (said it repeatedly) I just don't like to see them ignoring obvious improvements they could make while wasting resources on FSD that will NEVER BE self driving with the current hardware. HW 3.0- (minus radar) will never be capable of SAE Level 3, and "edge case" improvements to convince people that FSD actually means a self driving car are a waste of time and effort. By the time Tesla is up to HW 5.0 or higher they will achieve SAE Level 3 or higher, and like you I am not really that interested.... but when they reach SAE Level 3 for people who pay an extra $12,000 (much more $$ by the time they reach level 3) to get their cars delivered faster perhaps my lowly "Basic AP" car will have functional adaptive cruise control!

Keith

PS: Off Topic... What do people think about the "configure with FSD or you are back of the delivery line" system?

 

[TheLex]

Lol why did you ask if it was new or used then?

I was just curious as to your experience with new vehicles.

 

[WhiteWi]

My 2017 Bolt has rear cross traffic alert and "real" blind spot monitoring using ultra sonic sensors, not radar, no reason Tesla can't do it. Elon gave a line of $hit about birds eye view? Consider me shocked!

Oh, don't worry, I am not waiting for YOU to admit Tesla has been passed by, THAT will never happen. Tesla is no longer the longest range, no longer the fastest charging, doesn't have the best autonomous system, Tesla NEVER HAD good customer service or the least expensive long range EV... when a manufacturer combines ALL of those features in one vehicle I will view Tesla as having been surpassed... I give it 5 years at most. HeII, Porsche from the legacy OEM's and Lucid as the new kid on the block both surpass Tesla in most categories already. Do you want Tesla to be relegated to the "less expensive, but not really affordable performance EV" category? Or do you want them to dominate the market?

I don't see anyone on these forums saying that everything about Tesla sucks and you shouldn't purchase one... I see people frustrated by basic functionality not working properly and venting their complaints. You don't have to validate "my feelings" (objective reality, not really about my feelings) to make them real, but saying that my frustrations with the TACC system are not valid because it doesn't affect you is just sad.

I don't hate Tesla (said it repeatedly) I just don't like to see them ignoring obvious improvements they could make while wasting resources on FSD that will NEVER BE self driving with the current hardware. HW 3.0- (minus radar) will never be capable of SAE Level 3, and "edge case" improvements to convince people that FSD actually means a self driving car are a waste of time and effort. By the time Tesla is up to HW 5.0 or higher they will achieve SAE Level 3 or higher, and like you I am not really that interested.... but when they reach SAE Level 3 for people who pay an extra $12,000 (much more $$ by the time they reach level 3) to get their cars delivered faster perhaps my lowly "Basic AP" car will have functional adaptive cruise control!

Keith

PS: Off Topic... What do people think about the "configure with FSD or you are back of the delivery line" system?

Lol Your bolt uses mid range radars not your ultrasonic parking sensors. You have no clue what you are talking about. I am done here bye bye.

 

[SpaceKat]

I received my Model 3 RWD in January, but I have been hanging out on TMC for months. I knew that phantom braking was commonly reported, and I seriously considered canceling my order. I decided not to cancel it because (a) there were no other suitable EVs available at the time and (b) the resale values have been so high that I figured I could probably sell it if I was displeased.

As I anticipated, I have already experienced phantom braking in my first 900 mi. TACC is simply untrustworthy. Perhaps Tesla will improve it in the next update (as is rumored for the next beta).

BTW, CNN just ran a story about Tesla phantom braking. This kind of coverage will chip away at the company's reputation, goodwill, and share price.
Tesla's cruise control woes put damper on 'full self-driving' hopes

Thanks to its computer-centric design, the Model 3 has an abundance of features found on luxury cars. However, the build rides more like a cheap car (maybe a Ford Fusion or Chevy Malibu). Honestly, I would have no problem with the tradeoff (at RWD's price)... assuming everything worked.

My own experience has been a mixed bag. The range and efficiency are really nice. I like the look of the car, the white interior, the instant acceleration, and the cornering.

On the negative side, there have been a few issues. The driver's side of the dash rattles and the audio system doesn't consistently remember what I was listening to. The ride quality seems unrefined (and this is on the more comfortable 18" Aeros). And, of course, phantom braking.

Service? I live near a service center so when my car needed its trunk realigned (due to a giant and growing panel gap), I made an appointment using the Tesla app. That part of the process was great. Unfortunately, when I arrived at the service center, I was not greeted in a particularly friendly way. Arriving at my old Pontiac or VW dealer was a nicer experience. There was no loaner available, on par with other non-luxury dealers. Complicating matters, Tesla.com (and Tesla app messaging) went down late in the afternoon, and I became frustrated as I tried to arrange to pickup my car after hours. There was no alternative way to contact the service center!

 

[sleepydoc]

Did you buy Tesla based on that survey info? I bet you didn’t.

Irrelevant

You have no points just your own preferences. Just like I have my own.

I guess my 'preference' is to have a fully functional car with features that work as designed/advertised, but that wasn't my point, either. Thank you for repeatedly making may point.

I would encourage you to distinguish between a problem or a weakness and a global condemnation of the model or the company in general. Likewise, to recognize that individual experiences with a single car do not necessarily translate to all cars made. Multiple people have given multiple examples and your responses have either been obfuscations, misinterpretations or flat out denial ('my car works for me so it's perfect and Tesla is perfect and there's no way anyone can have a problem unless they're making it up.') It's clear that attempting to engage you in an objective or rational discussion on the subject is futile, so I'll end with that.

 

[ElectricAnt54]

I’ve driven 2,150 miles in my 2022 MYP and experienced phantom braking once when using autopilot + autosteer. It was a rapid braking at night probably due to freeway construction crew on shoulder who had setup their extremely bright construction lights so they faced the oncoming cars. I was two lanes from shoulder. There were no cars behind me. Was it slamming on the brakes? No. But the deceleration rate sure got my attention.

 

[WhiteWi]

Irrelevant

I guess my 'preference' is to have a fully functional car with features that work as designed/advertised, but that wasn't my point, either. Thank you for repeatedly making may point.

I would encourage you to distinguish between a problem or a weakness and a global condemnation of the model or the company in general. Likewise, to recognize that individual experiences with a single car do not necessarily translate to all cars made. Multiple people have given multiple examples and your responses have either been obfuscations, misinterpretations or flat out denial ('my car works for me so it's perfect and Tesla is perfect and there's no way anyone can have a problem unless they're making it up.') It's clear that attempting to engage you in an objective or rational discussion on the subject is futile, so I'll end with that.

I said phantom braking is real. How wide spread we don’t know. I also said nothing is prefect. Please don’t put words in my mouth. The crew that constantly complaining about Tesla is getting stale and boring. Bye bye

 

[charlesoris]

From the physics point of view, radar is much more superior to vision cameras because the radar can see through the rain and fog. By placing radars at the front and rear of the car, Tesla would have solved most of phantom braking issues and enabled rear cross-traffic alerts. Placing a camera at the front of the car would potentially enable birds-eye view and along with ultra-sound sensors make it easier to park the car in tight spaces.

 

[sleepydoc]

From the physics point of view, radar is much more superior to vision cameras because the radar can see through the rain and fog. By placing radars at the front and rear of the car, Tesla would have solved most of phantom braking issues and enabled rear cross-traffic alerts. Placing a camera at the front of the car would potentially enable birds-eye view and along with ultra-sound sensors make it easier to park the car in tight spaces.

Tesla's actually moving the other way - not only do their new cars not have radar but they're deactivating the radar in the old cars. To my knowledge my car (2020 MYLR) has radar but as I'm on the FSD beta program it's been deactivated.

I think both systems have their pros and cons. I've made this point before but I'll make it again, it's possible to have a decent adaptive cruise system with either. My sister's Prius (I think it was a 2011) had adaptive cruise that worked perfectly. I assume it was radar. based. We have a 2020 Forester with camera-based cruise and it works perfectly, too.

 

[charlesoris]

Tesla's actually moving the other way - not only do their new cars not have radar but they're deactivating the radar in the old cars. To my knowledge my car (2020 MYLR) has radar but as I'm on the FSD beta program it's been deactivated.

I think both systems have their pros and cons. I've made this point before but I'll make it again, it's possible to have a decent adaptive cruise system with either. My sister's Prius (I think it was a 2011) had adaptive cruise that worked perfectly. I assume it was radar. based. We have a 2020 Forester with camera-based cruise and it works perfectly, too.

I am aware of Tesla's plans to move away from the radar systems.
I have over 35 years of experience in Radar, Visible, Infrared, and Microwave systems. You need to have at least two to work in conjunction for a most effective system. I think Tesla had a hard time integrating visible cameras and radar into a cohesive system - it's not easy, but it can be done.
I am not criticizing Tesla's direction, I hoped that Tesla would consult with experts in the field before making such a dramatic move.

 

[sleepydoc]

I hoped that Tesla would consult with experts in the field before making such a dramatic move.

well, Elon consulted with himself. Does that count?

 

[WhiteWi]

Tesla's actually moving the other way - not only do their new cars not have radar but they're deactivating the radar in the old cars. To my knowledge my car (2020 MYLR) has radar but as I'm on the FSD beta program it's been deactivated.

I think both systems have their pros and cons. I've made this point before but I'll make it again, it's possible to have a decent adaptive cruise system with either. My sister's Prius (I think it was a 2011) had adaptive cruise that worked perfectly. I assume it was radar. based. We have a 2020 Forester with camera-based cruise and it works perfectly, too.

You are such a Subaru fan boy. It works prefect for you so it must be prefect for everyone lol
See what I did there.

 

[WhiteWi]

well, Elon consulted with himself. Does that count?

Elon is smarter than probably all the forum members up in here.

 

[stopcrazypp]

My 2017 Bolt has rear cross traffic alert and "real" blind spot monitoring using ultra sonic sensors, not radar, no reason Tesla can't do it. Elon gave a line of $hit about birds eye view? Consider me shocked!

FYI your Bolt uses rear radars for rear cross traffic alert (and blind spot monitoring), as does practically every car. You can easy find a listing on Google for the rear facing radar sensors:

2017 Chevrolet Bolt LR Blind Spot Radar Monitor Sensor 42428943 | eBay

Year: 2017. Make & Model: CHEVY BOLT. Ruckersville, VA 22968. M & M Service & Salvage Yard, Inc. Many modern vehicle modules require programming by qualified technicians. Consult with your local dealer to confirm that this part is compatible and serviceable prior to placing your order.

www.ebay.com

Ultrasonic sensors are useless for this, they are too short ranged.

I covered this in detail here a long while back:

Blind Spot Monitoring

Guys, My car is scheduled to be delivered next week. One thing I did not notice on my test drive was a blind spot monitoring system. Does the Performance Model 3 have BSM? If so, how does it work. I didn't notice any lights in the mirrors, etc. Todd

teslamotorsclub.com

Also for 360 parking views, it requires low mounted cameras, typically on front bumper and under the side mirrors (covering complete sides). Tesla is completely missing the front, and the fender camera only covers the rear (not the whole side view). They can try to stitch from the b-pillar camera, but it's not going to be anywhere the same (due to increased height and where the cameras are facing; the mirror cameras on other other cars usually primarily cover the ground).

You can look at a Bolt with the Surround Vision package and see where the cameras are located as an example.

So your claim it is all on software is completely factually incorrect.

 

[stopcrazypp]

From the physics point of view, radar is much more superior to vision cameras because the radar can see through the rain and fog. By placing radars at the front and rear of the car, Tesla would have solved most of phantom braking issues and enabled rear cross-traffic alerts. Placing a camera at the front of the car would potentially enable birds-eye view and along with ultra-sound sensors make it easier to park the car in tight spaces.

Your premises are wrong due to the fact phantom braking occurs in radar equipped cars too. Also, I don't see how rear facing radar will help at all given there aren't reports that Teslas are phantom braking in response to stimuli in the back, it's in the front.