Phantom braking so bad I want to return my car

[DrGriz]

No not beta, can’t drive that carefully

It's always interesting to me that the PB experience varies so much. I wonder if having lane change means the car is scanning ahead on the road differently than plain AP. In other words, because it is looking at the adjacent lane on the left, it sees things that trigger PB. Whereas AP doesn't look there. At least in the same way.

It seemed to me that when PB got better for us and others with AP, it was narrowing it's focus to the right. But who knows for sure?

 

[Dennisis]

It's always interesting to me that the PB experience varies so much. I wonder if having lane change means the car is scanning ahead on the road differently than plain AP. In other words, because it is looking at the adjacent lane on the left, it sees things that trigger PB. Whereas AP doesn't look there. At least in the same way.

It seemed to me that when PB got better for us and others with AP, it was narrowing it's focus to the right. But who knows for sure?

Yeah I have no idea. Strange because it was the middle of the day, straight highway, no overpasses or cars around, just whoops! Braking out of nowhere. Nuts. Happened the same way 3 times. And constantly signaling to move into the left lane for no reason too with no cars anywhere close ahead. Will try a reboot before we head to CO on Friday, can’t hurt.

 

[DrGriz]

Yeah I have no idea. Strange because it was the middle of the day, straight highway, no overpasses or cars around, just whoops! Braking out of nowhere. Nuts. Happened the same way 3 times. And constantly signaling to move into the left lane for no reason too with no cars anywhere close ahead. Will try a reboot before we head to CO on Friday, can’t hurt.

That was what we experienced in the spring (the PB), but it is gone now. At least, we haven't had it happen for months.
And yes, a reboot won't hurt.

 

[SalisburySam]

Great. And yet another reason to push back the 2022.24.6 “update.” I wonder if I can defer the install until 2022.28.n is more widespread and hope it’s better?

I’ve received downloads for 2022.24.6, 2022.28.1, and 2022.28.2. Still have not updated…no improvement in following distance settings, still max 85mph, still requires auto wipers and headlights, yatta, yatta. Nothing to entice me to lose radar nor especially my “1” following distance as long as I can postpone the losses.

 

[DrGriz]

I’ve received downloads for 2022.24.6, 2022.28.1, and 2022.28.2. Still have not updated…no improvement in following distance settings, still max 85mph, still requires auto wipers and headlights, yatta, yatta. Nothing to entice me to lose radar nor especially my “1” following distance as long as I can postpone the losses.

How long are you willing to go with this? You are probably missing out on undocumented bug fixes that may affect other functions and safety.

 

[Pianewman]

How long are you willing to go with this? You are probably missing out on undocumented bug fixes that may affect other functions and safety.

THIS!!!!

Safety is paramount. If "phantom braking" is continuing to occur, how do ANY of us know what additional software "bugs" are lurking that might challenge safety?

I know my driving skills, at 68, can't match the speed of AI activation, but I still contend it's too early to totally rely on AI to do the right thing in an emergency.

YMMV>

 

[DrGriz]

THIS!!!!

Safety is paramount. If "phantom braking" is continuing to occur, how do ANY of us know what additional software "bugs" are lurking that might challenge safety?

I know my driving skills, at 68, can't match the speed of AI activation, but I still contend it's too early to totally rely on AI to do the right thing in an emergency.

YMMV>

Sam wants to ride other people's bumpers at 90 mph. Maybe safety isn't a priority? That's not me.

 

[sleepydoc]

I’ve been on 10.69.2 for about a week and just took a 150 mile drive with FSD and had virtually no phantom braking. I was surprised and impressed with the improvement. I haven’t driven much with TACC, but historically FSD has had more issues with phantom braking/slowing that TACC and I see no reason to think this version would be different.

 

[SalisburySam]

Sam wants to ride other people's bumpers at 90 mph. Maybe safety isn't a priority? That's not me.

Hardly. I DO want to use the “1” following distance in stop-and-go rush hour traffic where it has proven to work very, very well. “2” sets up large gaps to the distinct ire of drivers behind me. Don’t care all that much about 90mph; it is more an indicator to me of something that TeslaVision cannot handle as well as non-TeslaVision EAP/FSD.

 

[SalisburySam]

How long are you willing to go with this? You are probably missing out on undocumented bug fixes that may affect other functions and safety.

Key word there: “probably.” No evidence of this and if fixes are undocumented how would anyone know? “…may affect…” yeah, lots of guessing going on here. How long am I willing to stay on the most stable release I’ve had since the V11 debacle introduction? Quite a while. And if something comes out that is radically safer, perhaps a mention of that in the release notes is advised. Furthermore, 2022.20.8 is STILL today rolling out to cars and is those cars’ latest release. I also think Tesla has repeatedly proven, as has Apple/Microsoft/others, their software updates introduce new and sometimes exciting bugs as well as occasionally fixing them. Again for me, I have a stable release, no new issues, features I’d just as soon keep at this point, no incentive whatever to change. Obviously at some point I’ll have no choice. Tokay I do.

 

[SalisburySam]

Tokay I do.

Tokay = Today

 

[DrGriz]

Hardly. I DO want to use the “1” following distance in stop-and-go rush hour traffic where it has proven to work very, very well. “2” sets up large gaps to the distinct ire of drivers behind me. Don’t care all that much about 90mph; it is more an indicator to me of something that TeslaVision cannot handle as well as non-TeslaVision EAP/FSD.

OK. I get the 1 car length in stop and go. And if 90mph doesn't matter we agree. It makes sense to me that the threshold reduction indicates something along those lines. But maybe it's just a matter of tuning the algorithms.

 

[DrGriz]

Key word there: “probably.” No evidence of this and if fixes are undocumented how would anyone know? “…may affect…” yeah, lots of guessing going on here. How long am I willing to stay on the most stable release I’ve had since the V11 debacle introduction? Quite a while. And if something comes out that is radically safer, perhaps a mention of that in the release notes is advised. Furthermore, 2022.20.8 is STILL today rolling out to cars and is those cars’ latest release. I also think Tesla has repeatedly proven, as has Apple/Microsoft/others, their software updates introduce new and sometimes exciting bugs as well as occasionally fixing them. Again for me, I have a stable release, no new issues, features I’d just as soon keep at this point, no incentive whatever to change. Obviously at some point I’ll have no choice. Tokay I do.

When PB finally went away for me (it was really a striking overnight change), I felt the same way. But I forged ahead with the next update and it's not been a problem 5 or 6 or whatever it has been changes later. But some people have had bugs with those updates. So I get it.

 

[SalisburySam]

But maybe it's just a matter of tuning the algorithms.

Probably but no one in the wild knows. And it doesn’t matter, at least not to me, until the restriction is overcome and lifted. That will be the indicator to me that on-the-road parity has been achieved. Similarly the following distance shortcomings, and so on. I used to be upset but now just laugh at how a “new, improved” service like TeslaVision is so much better than holes in donuts AND sliced bread, immediately followed by disclaimers identifying multiple areas in which the functionality is actually lessened.

 

[DrGriz]

Probably but no one in the wild knows. And it doesn’t matter, at least not to me, until the restriction is overcome and lifted. That will be the indicator to me that on-the-road parity has been achieved. Similarly the following distance shortcomings, and so on. I used to be upset but now just laugh at how a “new, improved” service like TeslaVision is so much better than holes in donuts AND sliced bread, immediately followed by disclaimers identifying multiple areas in which the functionality is actually lessened.

I remain intrigued by the fact that the harness for my TeslaVision car (which cannot accommodate a lithium battery) still has the connector for radar. And there's the improved radar patent business floating around.

 

[laservet]

When PB finally went away for me (it was really a striking overnight change), I felt the same way. But I forged ahead with the next update and it's not been a problem 5 or 6 or whatever it has been changes later. But some people have had bugs with those updates. So I get it.

Same here, was a big problem on every single drive I took, then disappeared with an update and have had zero issues with it since.

 

[cmy4x4]

About 75 miles in to a 200 mile trip, I thought my PB issues had been solved by the latest update (2022.28.2). NO SUCH LUCK. Although, it was much improved.

 

[Dennisis]

Yeah I have no idea. Strange because it was the middle of the day, straight highway, no overpasses or cars around, just whoops! Braking out of nowhere. Nuts. Happened the same way 3 times. And constantly signaling to move into the left lane for no reason too with no cars anywhere close ahead. Will try a reboot before we head to CO on Friday, can’t hurt.

Update on this: put in a service ticket (hail Mary I know) which was soon closed as "no hardware issues found, software is in beta..." I expected as much but thought I'd try. Frustrating when driving long stretches of highway. With all the data they must be capturing I'd expect faster progress but so it goes....

 

[OxBrew]

subtle mirage on the road? About the only trigger left for me. If driving into the sun, the camera might see a mirage that you can't, being up a bit higher.

I'm really happy with it now. 24.5

 

[Biggie]

About 75 miles in to a 200 mile trip, I thought my PB issues had been solved by the latest update (2022.28.2). NO SUCH LUCK. Although, it was much improved.

The updates haven't helped me, either.

I have two MYs, a 2020 and a 2022 ("vision only"). Both have the latest updates. The only difference is that the 2020 has forward-facing radar, but the 2022 does not (as far as I know).

We took a recent trip of almost 1,100 miles in the 2022 MY, and the phantom braking happened often and aggressively, and hardly ever could I predict it. It got so bad that I had to constantly keep my foot on the accelerator so that I could take over when the PB happened. This should NOT be necessary. I should be able to turn on the cruise control and relax or reposition my leg enough to stay comfortable.

Until Telsa figures out when the car is actually in danger, they should separate the cruise control and forward collision aversion. Make the latter a user-selectable software setting like most other manufacturers do.

I imagine Tesla is worried about forward collisions, but they also need to worry about rear-end collisions when some car following too closely cannot stop when the Tesla randomly decides to throw on the brakes and reduce speed by 30-40 mph.