Phantom braking survey

[haroldo]

After viewing a few threads, it seems that there's a difference in the type of phantom braking that occurs. Some members complain of aggressive braking (scaring driver and passengers), while others (including me) feel it's like regular braking, annoying, but not a big problem.
Another member with a similar car to mine (June 2021 - vision only) didn't feel his was aggressive, so I wonder if there's a correlation.
Before there's a flood of complaints about the survey choices offered, etc., I'm not a professional pollster, feel free to ignore survey.
Yes, I realize feelings and judgement are subjective
Thanks!

 

[Frazmod3]

Hi there Haroldo, thanks for your thread. I have a 2021 tesla model 3 long range Uk since March it’s a China build and I think is radar equipped. I updated to 2021.24.5 on Saturday. On Sunday afternoon it deployed a full emergency stop from around 25mph to a complete standstill in a split second for no reason. The stop was so sudden it fully winded both myself and passenger it was unbelievable. Fortunately nothing behind us as if there had been anything even within reasonable clearance there would have been a shunt. I am taking it to a dealership today to discuss and have switched off emergency braking it’s not safe, it was in manual mode with no auto steer or cruise engaged. This may be a software glitch. I have experienced the car slowing suddenly when in certain circumstances but never a complete dead stop from no where, the front end of the vehicle face planted it was like hitting a wall.

 

[haroldo]

That's incredible. Would love to hear what, if anything, they tell you.
A question I ask everyone experiencing phantom braking,...
I assume your foot was on the accelerator, as you said you were manual driving, did you attempt to tap the pedal? Did it override the braking? (yes, I know you said it was a split second).
Did the car go into a skid?

 

[Frazmod3]

That's incredible. Would love to hear what, if anything, they tell you.
A question I ask everyone experiencing phantom braking,...
I assume your foot was on the accelerator, as you said you were manual driving, did you attempt to tap the pedal? Did it override the braking? (yes, I know you said it was a split second).
Did the car go into a skid?

 

[Frazmod3]

Hi Haroldo

thanks for responding back. The guys in Tesla said that it had happened to them and not to be concerned. They advised if it reacted in the same way again to bring it back for investigation. Apparently Tesla brakes are particularly good therefore the ability to stop extremely quickly exacerbates the feeling of impact. No skid for me as my speed was not high enough and nice dry conditions on a good road surface however this did add to the speed of stopping. No time to react it really was a split second. I’ve booked it into the service centre for inspection anyway as it did face plant forward. I am manually switching off emergency braking, you have to do it every time you restart the car after a full close down as it reactivates on each new journey. Still very much loving my Tesla it’s incredible! I am sure this will get sorted and am happy to have the opportunity to share this information with you and the forum many thanks

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

One issue with the poll is that not all phantom braking is the same.

What I find is phantom braking that's caused by navigation/gps/maps issues tend to be annoying, but light to moderate.

Where Phantom braking caused by overhead passes, bridges, etc tends to be more moderate to heavy braking.

 

[haroldo]

What I find is phantom braking that's caused by navigation/gps/maps issues tend to be annoying, but light to moderate.

Where Phantom braking caused by overhead passes, bridges, etc tends to be more moderate to heavy braking.

Totally agree.
Today I noticed the slowing (not braking) brought the car down to the speed limit, then resumed acceleration back to my preferred cruise control speed 72 (speed limit +10%). I created a separate thread Phantom Braking theory...need help to test this out to discuss the possibility that software related slowing (as opposed to mistaken visual issue braking, such as a dark shadow) might be related to the "speed limit+XX%" software.

 

[Dracaris]

The phantom braking we have seen twice in our first week of ownership has, each time, been what we perceived as aggressive and frightening. There was no obstruction on or near the roadway in either case. In both cases, the car hit the brakes firmly and unexpectedly, causing us to fear the possibility of a self-induced rear-end collision. Fortunately, in both cases we were spared from that. However, based on those 2 incidents my wife refuses, for now, to enable autopilot. At this moment it's safe to say that enabling any autopilot feature while driving is more stressful for us than leaving it off and doing 100% of the work ourselves. This is, so far, the only disappointment with our new car though it's a pretty big one. At the moment, we're also pleased that we didn't sign up for FSD, because we wouldn't likely be using that either.

FWIW, our new car's current software is 2021.11.102.2, so we're not yet on the latest. Perhaps things will improve our next update. I'll certainly give it a try, covering the accelerator and the brake when doing so. The car is on wifi when parked at home, so it should just be a question of when Tesla and the car decide it's time for an update.

 

[digitaldad]

The phantom braking we have seen twice in our first week of ownership has, each time, been what we perceived as aggressive and frightening. There was no obstruction on or near the roadway in either case. In both cases, the car hit the brakes firmly and unexpectedly, causing us to fear the possibility of a self-induced rear-end collision. Fortunately, in both cases we were spared from that. However, based on those 2 incidents my wife refuses, for now, to enable autopilot. At this moment it's safe to say that enabling any autopilot feature while driving is more stressful for us than leaving it off and doing 100% of the work ourselves. This is, so far, the only disappointment with our new car though it's a pretty big one. At the moment, we're also pleased that we didn't sign up for FSD, because we wouldn't likely be using that either.

FWIW, our new car's current software is 2021.11.102.2, so we're not yet on the latest. Perhaps things will improve our next update. I'll certainly give it a try, covering the accelerator and the brake when doing so. The car is on wifi when parked at home, so it should just be a question of when Tesla and the car decide it's time for an update.

Very similar situation Dracaris. Wife just drove our MYP home (400 miles) and complained about this (and I witnessed from behind in a rental car). She agrees the correct vote is aggressive/frightening but will continue to monitor after hopeful updates (came with 2021.11.103). She wasn't swayed enough to object fully, like you described. We estimate at least ten phantom braking examples on that trip home.

From my POV and planning, I had assumed that basic adaptive cruise control was spectacular on Teslas while certain folks throw shade at competitors, like Mach-E and Sandy Munro's video (for example) for how "subpar bluecruise is. I really want some of the features of FSD but criminy, how is this not bigger/openly discussed news with Tesla (I guess its added to the list of many software focal points).

Aside from this, very cool car and tech - enjoy yours!

 

[haroldo]

I think I had an automatic braking incident yesterday, probably was intentional, as car was creeping in packed Manhattan traffic jam.
When car is automatic braking, whether intentional or inadvertent, is there a clicking sound by the pedal?
If so, the slowing incidents I experienced, and have been questioning, is clearly different from what I had experienced with TACC related showing

 

[dr_sheri]

I have a 2019 series 3 and I love it. However, yesterday I was driving in mild LA traffic and I was celebrating how great my Tesla was managing the slowing and accelerating when out of nowhere I had a terrifying phantom braking incident. I had hit a spot with very little traffic when out of the blue the car slammed on the brakes, going from 70 mph to 20 within a second or two. Thank God no one was right behind me! I slammed on the accelerator and sped back up, but the cars behind me all passed me (giving me dirty looks). I have no idea why the car stopped - there was no overpass and all 4 lanes were clear for at least six car lengths in front.
It was traumatic and I turned off the cruise control for the rest of my trip. I’m not sure I’ll trust it again.

 

[milosmail1]

I have a 2018 model 3 LR, single motor, and I have reported the phantom braking while auto drive or cruise control are on, to Tesla multiple times the past 3 years. Service requested date and time of incidents, which I provided, and their response has always been 'no problem found in the logs'...
I have had radar and sensors checked with no problems found, so I believe it is a software bug they can't find. What's really annoying is that I can recreate the problem easily, as it frequently occurs at the same spot in San Jose, on hiway 85 - which is about 10 miles from the Fremont plant. But no s/w engineer has offered to come look at the site. It has also occurred at other locations - and I finally figured out that it is caused by passing from deep shadow into bright sunlight on very sunny days (bright sky). It's not limited to exiting an underpass, just to any transition from deep shade to bright sunlight.
Knowing this, I have been able to manage the infrequent occurrences safely. Having the car slam on the brakes for no reason is no fun, and has occasionally resulted in 3 finger salutes from drivers behind me...

 

[haroldo]

as it frequently occurs at the same spot in San Jose,

Have you found other owners to see if they've noticed the same issue at that location?

 

[Twiglett]

Have a radar car that used to work great with very few phantom braking issues.
Since getting FSD beta and switching to vision I can measure phantom braking in events per mile.

 

[SalisburySam]

I am sure this will get sorted…

I wish I had your confidence. Now after 84 updates, I still have this horrid annoyance despite hundreds of bug reports, three service center appointments to review, and far too much aggro.

 

[K2500Z71]

I sometimes wonder if phantom braking is somehow neural net related. I’ve seen it happen in spots where I knew there were previously things that one would slow down for that are no longer there. I’ve had it happen on the highway at spots where I had previously seen cops having cars pulled over. If I hit the same stretch of road the next day, the car will typically slow down or change lanes as it approaches that spot.

I’ve seen other instances of this type behavior on secondary roads as well.

 

[PlaterB]

My 2 week old Model 3 Long Range brakes suddenly and randomly either on an incline, or when it 'sees' an oncoming tractor trailer on an undivided highway. It's very annoying. Does anyone else experience this?

 

[raptor5244]

Pretty common, just do some searches on phantom braking.

Tesla Remotely Recalls Full Self-Driving Software for 'Phantom Braking' Problem - Consumer Reports

Consumer Reports shares details of Tesla's recall of the Full Self-Driving software for a "phantom braking" problem. The software update has already been sent to over 11,000 vehicles.

www.consumerreports.org

 

[koliva]

I concur with the other posts relating to phantom braking. Currently on a road trip cross country and happen while going 80 MPH. Good thing no one was behind me. Looks like a real problem and hope a solution is near. Model Y without FSD, using standard auto pilot.

 

[PlaterB]

I concur with the other posts relating to phantom braking. Currently on a road trip cross country and happen while going 80 MPH. Good thing no one was behind me. Looks like a real problem and hope a solution is near. Model Y without FSD, using standard auto pilot.

My Mod 3 doesn't have the Autopilot, it mostly happens when cruise control is on, but sometimes even without it engaged. My previous EV, the Chevy Bolt, had no quirks like that. Does every Tesla owner live with that and the Company does nothing about it? This makes using cruise control not a convenience but a risk factor...