Correction, it doesn't have FSD, just Autopilot, AKA cruise control and lane assist (which is also annoying in it's own way - it turns off every time you change lanes, even when you signal it)
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Phantom braking survey
- Thread starter haroldo
- Start date
SpaceShipDrvr
Member
I had a crazy number of phantom brakes happening today on a 5hr drive from SF to Eureka. (Vision only 2021 MYLR with 2021.38.8 - no FSD)
Want to use cruise control on an undivided highway? Good luck… it slams on the brake 80% of the time when encountering a truck in the opposite lane. With or without auto-steer enabled.
It worked much better on the freeway, although it gets very fidgety when passing (or being passed by) certain trucks.
I can only assume my MYLR is truck-phobic.
Want to use cruise control on an undivided highway? Good luck… it slams on the brake 80% of the time when encountering a truck in the opposite lane. With or without auto-steer enabled.
It worked much better on the freeway, although it gets very fidgety when passing (or being passed by) certain trucks.
I can only assume my MYLR is truck-phobic.
I agree. After 3 years of trying to get some action., I have given up trying to get a response, and a fix.
Reported the aggressive phantom braking to the NHTSA. It has the potential to lead to a serious accident. If enough people actually complain to the NHTSA, Tesla might be forced to actually deal with the problem. FSD is eating up too many resources and not enough are being devoted to correcting the huge uptick in phantom braking in TACC and AP, especially in Vision only cars.
The situation varies between firmware releases for me (M3 w/radar). For some releases phantom braking is horrible, but for other releases (like 2021.36.5.1) it never happens, replaced instead by phantom forward collision alerts. It switches one way or the other when the firmware changes.
I have owned the Radar and Vision only version of the Model Y. I can tell everyone, emphatically, that vision only is a universally worse experience than radar assisted.
I have begun recording my car when it is utilizing TACC/AP via a 3rd party camera (my phone, lol) and how Tesla "repairs" it. I, personally, am heavily considering Lemon Law for my car.
For those of you with a radar assisted Tesla, I understand you've probably had a few "phantom breaking" incidents, where you went under an overpass and your car slowed down considerably, or dropped 5-10 mph - and this is your perception of "Phantom Breaking". When I heard of this, from Car & Driver, and others - I assumed these were one off events, perhaps once every 100 miles or so.
During the day, I would estimate the car "hesitates" and lightly breaks within 5 mph for no noticeable reason every 10-15 miles (particularly if there are no cars ahead of you. AP does well following another car that blocks the view of the road.)
At night, I would estimate the car "hesitates" nearly every time the Auto-Brights (which are required to be on), turn off for other vehicles. My personal experience, on non-divided roads / highways, the car applied 15+ mph brakes once every 5 miles. The car also has warned me of a collision multiple times within a 1 mile stretch.
I do not use TACC and AP if other cars are near me any longer. The trust I had in my car with Radar is gone.
I have begun recording my car when it is utilizing TACC/AP via a 3rd party camera (my phone, lol) and how Tesla "repairs" it. I, personally, am heavily considering Lemon Law for my car.
For those of you with a radar assisted Tesla, I understand you've probably had a few "phantom breaking" incidents, where you went under an overpass and your car slowed down considerably, or dropped 5-10 mph - and this is your perception of "Phantom Breaking". When I heard of this, from Car & Driver, and others - I assumed these were one off events, perhaps once every 100 miles or so.
During the day, I would estimate the car "hesitates" and lightly breaks within 5 mph for no noticeable reason every 10-15 miles (particularly if there are no cars ahead of you. AP does well following another car that blocks the view of the road.)
At night, I would estimate the car "hesitates" nearly every time the Auto-Brights (which are required to be on), turn off for other vehicles. My personal experience, on non-divided roads / highways, the car applied 15+ mph brakes once every 5 miles. The car also has warned me of a collision multiple times within a 1 mile stretch.
I do not use TACC and AP if other cars are near me any longer. The trust I had in my car with Radar is gone.
As has been stated many times, give us the option for "dumb" CC. All of the problems present in AP are in TACC. TACC is AP minus the steering. If we are only supposed to use AP on large divided highways, as the manual says, than TACC should be able to be used in all other circumstances in lieu of AP. But the phantom braking and false collision detection is just as bad in TACC as it is in AP. This makes cruise control a stressful "driving aid" and defeats the purpose of having it. Give me the option of dumb cruise control that has been a safe and useful aid that has been in cars for 40 years.
This is a serious problem that Tesla is not addressing. If you want to force their hand, please file a complaint in at the NHTSA. If enough people let them know about the danger that Vision-based TACC poses, they will start investigating which would hopefully make Tesla address the problem in a meaningful way.
Here is a link the NHTSA safety complaint page... Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA
Fernand
Active Member
I have radar and had like 3 slowdowns over 3 years, so infrequently it was Effectively nil.
With FSD Beta now, apparently the radar is disabled. But a lot more stuff has changed. All of the slowdowns (never had "braking") are related to the imperfect reading of map data and speed limit signs. Example: driving along on the freeway at 75 MPH. Pass a 65 MPH speed limit sign, and the car promptly decelerates to 65. Though not always. Or some bad map data is read. I have a spot (CA highway 24 to 13) where the car tries to barrel through the sharp turn junction at 65 MPH, then abruptly decelerates to 35 MPH and stays there while engaging highway 13. I just use the accelerator and (especially) the target speed wheel. No big deal, though quite incorrect. I e-mailed the beta team, they haven't fixed it yet. As to situations where the car gets spooked by nearby meandering cars and (especially) trucks I consider it proactive. Again, as instructed, stay alert, stay in command -- use the controls, Luke -- no drama. If you're not, you're taking unnecessary chances.
With FSD Beta now, apparently the radar is disabled. But a lot more stuff has changed. All of the slowdowns (never had "braking") are related to the imperfect reading of map data and speed limit signs. Example: driving along on the freeway at 75 MPH. Pass a 65 MPH speed limit sign, and the car promptly decelerates to 65. Though not always. Or some bad map data is read. I have a spot (CA highway 24 to 13) where the car tries to barrel through the sharp turn junction at 65 MPH, then abruptly decelerates to 35 MPH and stays there while engaging highway 13. I just use the accelerator and (especially) the target speed wheel. No big deal, though quite incorrect. I e-mailed the beta team, they haven't fixed it yet. As to situations where the car gets spooked by nearby meandering cars and (especially) trucks I consider it proactive. Again, as instructed, stay alert, stay in command -- use the controls, Luke -- no drama. If you're not, you're taking unnecessary chances.
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Have a report filled out, will post once I get my "Road test confirming car within specification."
I've had phantom braking a few times -- overpass, rain splashing, (I think) glare from the sun. It's not so bad. It's a good reminder that the computer has no intelligence whatsoever so you need to be watchful at all times. The idea that this thing will be driving around on its own any time soon when it currently thinks it needs to brake for an overpass is laughable.
I have a vision only car and the Phantom breaking is aggressive but not frightening.
There was one incident where it was frightening though. But I'd say it was isolated (garbage truck coming towards me on the other side of the lane). If there was a car behind me it would have been an accident for sure, but luckily there was not
There was one incident where it was frightening though. But I'd say it was isolated (garbage truck coming towards me on the other side of the lane). If there was a car behind me it would have been an accident for sure, but luckily there was not
SpaceShipDrvr
Member
Has anyone noticed any improvement in the phantom braking severity/frequency with the holiday update? (2021.44.52.x with the new UI)
I have not had time to make any drives to test it, but I am curious if the supposed FSD phantom braking improvements have carried over to for us non-FSD traffic aware cruise control users.
I have not had time to make any drives to test it, but I am curious if the supposed FSD phantom braking improvements have carried over to for us non-FSD traffic aware cruise control users.
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SalisburySam
Active Member
Haselsmasher
Member
We've had our (2022) Model Y for a month. We just finished a 10 day, 2,900 mi road trip.
The Phantom Braking issue is a HUGE disappointment to me. There are so so SO many things Tesla has gotten right......I can't believe such a serious issue has gone on for so long - both from a customer satisfaction and safety perspective.
On open highway I think I noticed a pattern where it was most likely to occur when cresting a small hill. In all cases it it was open ahead of us "for miles". I'd describe braking as severe. It got to the point I'd take it off cruise if anyone was reasonably close behind me. I don't think it ever happened at night.
On two lane roads it happens at night, usually when going up a hill and an oncoming car is cresting the hill. In those situations the braking is less severe.
I'm just stunned this situation has gone on for so long.
The Phantom Braking issue is a HUGE disappointment to me. There are so so SO many things Tesla has gotten right......I can't believe such a serious issue has gone on for so long - both from a customer satisfaction and safety perspective.
On open highway I think I noticed a pattern where it was most likely to occur when cresting a small hill. In all cases it it was open ahead of us "for miles". I'd describe braking as severe. It got to the point I'd take it off cruise if anyone was reasonably close behind me. I don't think it ever happened at night.
On two lane roads it happens at night, usually when going up a hill and an oncoming car is cresting the hill. In those situations the braking is less severe.
I'm just stunned this situation has gone on for so long.
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