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There is a video by a German youtuber that suggests to recalibrate the radar to reduce Phantom braking. Can be done via the Service tab on the screen. If the actual radar has been misaligned or changes to the suspensions were made, one might need to compensate the re-calibration process by putting an additional load in the trunk or frunk.
They realised that when they changed the suspension the car was undrivable on the Autobahn using AP, but recalibration solved this.
Done that. Makes no difference
 
I did a 450 mile drive yesterday from the Midlands to Newcastle and return.
Started off using TACC as usual on the M1 but was soon driving manually.
I had numerous small and large episodes and upon watching the visualisation (when driving manually) I could see why.
Trucks one lane away on four lane parts of the motorway (Smart) were jumping in to the lane next to me so clearly upsetting the software. Cars were smooth on the visualisation but trucks next to my lane didn't pass smoothly either and jumped forwards and backwards as I passed them. The lane markings were solid on screen.
The sunny side was the other side and although must have been dazzled, was working perfectly with cars and vans passing.

One really bad episode was when I indicated and pulled in to the clear empty lane to my left with a truck on the inside lane. Wow, I decelerated sharply and was surprised that the following car didn't give me the bird or brake check me as I certainly did to them.

WTF is going on and was nothing to do with radar as the problem seems to be at the side with just the camera's causing it. I did check that the camera's were clear when topping up at Scotch Corner.
you have hit the nail on the head in my opinion
 
This trip was far worse than normal and I assume could be an issue just on my car but if a camera was faulty the system usually spots it and checking the rear cam with side cams found them all to be working correctly.
I cannot check the side cams looking forward so have to assume they are ok as cars and vans pass correctly.

Visualisation of cars does seem to be less laggy as before cars could pass you and still be passing on screen but now it looks to be real time so recent updates have been working on the visualisation along with whatever else they don't tell us.
 

Drew57

Active ember
Apr 4, 2020
1,233
1,489
Chester UK
I accept that it includes poorly implemented code/bugs and other things but I am asking whether our individual settings are having an influence on severity (not whether it happens or not):

1. Forward collision warning early vs off
2. Lane Departure Avoidance off or warning vs Assist
2. Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance on or off
4. Automatic Emergency Braking on or off

So it seems reasonable to me that...
  • A car with settings 1. off, 2. off/warnings only, 3. off, 4. off might see less or even no phantom braking
  • A car with settings 1. early, 2. Assist, 3. on, 4. on might see more phantom braking
Otherwise what's the point of these settings? Some people report almost none and are very happy, others report regular occurrences.

I have very few PB instances using medium Forward Collision warning (but no assist intervention), Lane Departure Avoidance warning only (no assist intervention) but do have Emergency Lane Departure Avoidance and Automatic Emergency Braking on. My car screen does see lorries moving/jumping as I pass but never seems to react & I have settings somewhere in the middle. I have been using Autopilot quite a lot on Dual Carriageways. Motorways and long stretches of local A roads, even a few B roads as I am finding it increasingly reliable and useful.
 

init6

Member
Oct 16, 2020
943
595
Scotland
An interesting video (if you're a geek) popped up in my Reddit feed last night. It's the Senior Director of AI at Tesla's view of the Vision vs radar debate and why they are going the way they are.

The comparison of Radar vs Vision (with a bridge example) is here:
 
How do you know? I appreciate your view, but your assessment seems absolute without any substantiation.
Because I’ve been reading threads like this from hundreds of users over the last 4-5 years of my ownership. I’ve have hours of conversation with Tesla USA and sent over a dozen videos of the exact problem.

I may be wrong but you guys can try and identify settings here and there but I’m confident it will not resolve anything.

It’s a bug and I’m sure a known bug that is proving impossible to resolve at the moment.
 

VanillaAir_UK

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2019
8,957
6,552
Surrey, UK
There is more than one cause of phantom braking. The one caused by Tesla's inability to get sensor fusion right will soon become a thing of the past by the sounds of it (at what cost?), but there are still instances on pure Tesla Vision vehicles caused by poor mapping and possibly other scenarios that will soon start becoming more obvious as those caused by sensor fusion get eradicated. Certainly pure Tesla Vision vehicles are limited number so far and US only (excluding early adaptors in other countries already testing it), so we cannot say what bugs are outstanding and what are solved with Tesla Vision.

What is clear though is that there is different behaviour between drivers and/or vehicles - its common for me to see visualisations of passing vehicles swerving across lanes, but for me it doesn't cause phantom braking. So what is causing the differences between cars suffering from phantom braking in these circumstances, and those not suffering from phantom braking in the same circumstances? Likewise, other circumstances what people have noted as being a common trigger - curtain siders seemed to be a common theme for some, but many others have never had a problem with them.
 
There is a video by a German youtuber that suggests to recalibrate the radar to reduce Phantom braking. Can be done via the Service tab on the screen. If the actual radar has been misaligned or changes to the suspensions were made, one might need to compensate the re-calibration process by putting an additional load in the trunk or frunk.
They realised that when they changed the suspension the car was undrivable on the Autobahn using AP, but recalibration solved this.
I'm now on 18.2 + the latest map.
Today driving in a district of Birmingham on a urban 2 lane dual carraigeway without TACC the car made a new beep (not heard before). I was in the nearside lane approaching parked cars (100 yds ahead). I assumed it was a new warning so I checked this out at the next opportunity but the warning didn't happen.
I've since wondered do we now have speed camera warnings? I didn't see a camera though.
Anyone else experience anything similar?
 

VanillaAir_UK

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2019
8,957
6,552
Surrey, UK
Its quite possibly forward collision warning, but that would normally briefly show a highlighted red obstacle that caused it.

4.18.2 bought a big change in NN (Neural Network) behaviour, so anything autopilot related, including safety features, would be affected. The 4.15.x branch introduced this on a more limited group of cars, and some of the versions were particularly sensitive to largely irrelevant objects. Thankfully it got desensitised somewhat on the latest version of that branch but it would still give the warnings more than 14.15 and prior. What of the 4.15.x branch merged back into 4.18.x, but it is clear that the raised level of forward collision warnings still exist and that vehicles parked up on the pavement are still capable of occasionally triggering it.
 
Just driven through the night from Gatwick to Manchester. 100% of the motorway on autopilot and TACC.

Half the drive was in clear night skies and half in moderate rain.

Had about 8 phantom braking moments. Some in clear skies on clear roads. Some as usual passing lorries.

Lots of “autopilot unavailable” and “fender blocked or blinded” messages rendering auto lane change “temporarily unavailable”.

Really unimpressive and a pretty poor show Tesla.

In contrast, the drive down during the day in good conditions all the way only experienced 1 phantom event.

After 5 years of this I really don’t know what the prognosis is.
 
Just driven through the night from Gatwick to Manchester. 100% of the motorway on autopilot and TACC.

Half the drive was in clear night skies and half in moderate rain.

Had about 8 phantom braking moments. Some in clear skies on clear roads. Some as usual passing lorries.

Lots of “autopilot unavailable” and “fender blocked or blinded” messages rendering auto lane change “temporarily unavailable”.

Really unimpressive and a pretty poor show Tesla.

In contrast, the drive down during the day in good conditions all the way only experienced 1 phantom event.

After 5 years of this I really don’t know what the prognosis is.
But did the wipers cope OK? 🥺
 

cciebryan

Member
Dec 27, 2019
25
6
Uk
Moderator comment - thread merged from "Navigate on autopilot aggressive breaking now."

Navigate on autopilot has started aggressive breaking now. After the last up date.. m3 LR funny thing is the previous up date it had started break to passively, now it's gone the other way..
The breaking used to be fine before gradule and smooth, not I'm not as confident in the breaking.. maybe just due to the change of behavt.
Anyone else getting this...
 
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