Not one critical faculty in that account. Wouldn't trust a word they said.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Phantom braking (TACC/AP) [Not AEB]
- Thread starter cciebryan
- Start date
Not one critical faculty in that account. Wouldn't trust a word they said.
MrBadger
Badger out
Moderator comment - posts about Automatic Emergency Braking now moved back to Recent incidence of Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) (not TACC/AP)
This thread now renamed for TACC/AP specific phantom braking
If I incorrectly allocated a post, please let me know
This thread now renamed for TACC/AP specific phantom braking
If I incorrectly allocated a post, please let me know
Last edited:
The software beta was released less than a week ago to a limited number of people. Now, after a few completely unscientific videos on social media some people are already declaring phantom braking to be solved. Pure hype. I really hope so, but I think we need a little more in depth evaluation (taking several months) before this is confirmed.
This is the frustrating thing for me, things like adaptive cruise control and auto wipers have been working on other vehicles for a long time now. Tesla seem to be trying their own "clever " solutions to both issues. Neither of which work. I'm all for them developing new things but if we have tried and tested technology, use that until you can develop something better
It's a different approach. Agile development is a relatively new way of doing things as far as car production is concerned, not so much with software development. Do you get a better released product to begin with, absolutely not. Do you get a better product further down the line, yes you do.
Teslas do have a rain sensor that worked as well or as badly (depending on who you ask) as most other manufacturers. They switched over to a new AI wiping system about a year ago, it's not very good, but I'd rather they persevere and get it right than switch mack to a mediocre solution. The auto wipers on my leaf are ok about 60% of the time, on my volvo probably 40%, mercedes, 60% ... Tesla is probably in my books at about 50%... but "apparently" it'll get better, I'm happy to wait.
It's the same with TAAC/AP people keep saying "I had a car 5 years ago that was better" and that's quite possibly true for a basic system. You have to take steps backwards to then move forward. The first electric lightbulb was almost useless, poor light, high cost and it burned out quickly. Tesla systems are not amazing, but they are improving, for some people beta software is unacceptable, and for those people they should buy a different car.
Teslas do have a rain sensor that worked as well or as badly (depending on who you ask) as most other manufacturers. They switched over to a new AI wiping system about a year ago, it's not very good, but I'd rather they persevere and get it right than switch mack to a mediocre solution. The auto wipers on my leaf are ok about 60% of the time, on my volvo probably 40%, mercedes, 60% ... Tesla is probably in my books at about 50%... but "apparently" it'll get better, I'm happy to wait.
It's the same with TAAC/AP people keep saying "I had a car 5 years ago that was better" and that's quite possibly true for a basic system. You have to take steps backwards to then move forward. The first electric lightbulb was almost useless, poor light, high cost and it burned out quickly. Tesla systems are not amazing, but they are improving, for some people beta software is unacceptable, and for those people they should buy a different car.
As I said, I'm all for car companies trying to develop new systems. Problem is auto wipers and adaptive cruise control technology works on other manufacturers vehicles and simply doesn't on a Tesla. Plus, their failures are a safety concern. The public shouldn't be subjected to technology that is worse than the accepted standard and more dangerous
Automatic wipers is a solved problem. Done. BMW gets it right all the time. 100%. You don't need agile development for that.
Glan gluaisne
Active Member
Matches my experience with Toyotas. The last three I owned had auto wipers that worked very well 99% of the time. The only time I can remember operating them manually was when getting in the car first thing, and having to do a manual flick of the wipers to clear the condensation off the screen. When driving the auto wipers just worked.
I've given up even trying to use the auto wipers on the Model 3. They are so bad that it's actually easier to use them set to manual.
Pretty much this with Mercedes too. Almost. It false wiped once in the 3 years I had the car, not a bad percentage in rainy old England!
There's no question of "development" anymore. Auto wipers just work. Except on Tesla.
Apart from the aforementioned first time you get in. Seems to take one manual wipe to wake them up.
That's where I disagree. The public should be given a choice, if no one takes the risk, or perseveres with alpha/beta systems nothing moves forward. If you don't want beta software, don't buy a Tesla, buy a BMW.
If the TACC/AP really was that dangerous and killing lots of people it would fairly quickly be made unlawful. I don't disagree that things like phantom breaking are dangerous, but we're now about to move onto a new version of autopilot that wouldn't have been possible if people weren't driving about on the old version.
Pioneering surgery is both a danger to life and you could argue unnecessary, but some people would rather take a risk of a better outcome and also help advance the procedure for everyone else.
That might be fine for things that are still in development, but why does Tesla feel it has to reinvent the wheel for something as mundane as windscreen wipers? There is technology out there that is tried, tested, reliable and dirt cheap, but Tesla have to try and produce something “better”. That would be fine if it actually worked, but instead they have produced something that isn’t fit for purpose.
You tend only to notice things when they don’t work properly. I haven’t noticed windscreen wipers for years because they have just worked 100% reliably. Until I bought a Tesla. How bizarre that the wipers on my £50k+ car are a zillion times worse than on a £20k hatch.
Why should the public be given a choice between something that just works, or something that doesn't work and could easily cause car accidents in the process? I just don't follow the logic that says we should all be happy with Tesla's faulty and dangerous adaptive cruise control when everyone else creates an adaptive cruise control that just works. Tesla appear to be attempting to solve a problem that has already been solved. I don't understand why they would ignore a tested solution. I don't understand why you are happy with an inferior and more dangerous product being on the market when the alternative just works.
Because Tesla aren't trying to make the world's best lane assist system that can only operate in good conditions with highly visible lane markings. That's already been done by mobileye. They are trying to make a self drive system based on a neural net. That means it will start out worse at some specific tasks that more basic systems are tuned for.
Even if the current gen of cars can't manage FSD, the development done now is a huge step forward.
And if people are still worried about their wipers, Tesla can't just use the existing tech that other manufacturers have spent 20 years perfecting because it doesn't fit with Tesla's vertical integration where they need to own the technology and the code.
I'm not trying to say that what they are doing is acceptable for everyone, or that they currently have a system that is better at everything than any other car maker. But they are trying to achieve something monumentally different to most other auto makers in a way that is completely alien to the automotive industry. It has it's up sides and down sides. If you don't like it, don't buy one. The net result is that other car makers with a more conventional approach are also having to up their game, so it's a win win for everyone.
Even if the current gen of cars can't manage FSD, the development done now is a huge step forward.
And if people are still worried about their wipers, Tesla can't just use the existing tech that other manufacturers have spent 20 years perfecting because it doesn't fit with Tesla's vertical integration where they need to own the technology and the code.
I'm not trying to say that what they are doing is acceptable for everyone, or that they currently have a system that is better at everything than any other car maker. But they are trying to achieve something monumentally different to most other auto makers in a way that is completely alien to the automotive industry. It has it's up sides and down sides. If you don't like it, don't buy one. The net result is that other car makers with a more conventional approach are also having to up their game, so it's a win win for everyone.
I'm not sure why you're not getting this point but auto makers DON'T have to up their game with regards to adaptive cruise control and auto wipers. Because they have systems that work. Tesla don't and their cars, which are on the public roads, are more dangerous as a result.
You know, this really won't do. Liking a car is not an all-or-nothing binary decision. It's perfectly possible to like a car and own the car whilst recognising that serious compromises have been made for no discernible benefit.
Last edited:
Wol747
Active Member
>>You know, this really won't do. Liking a car is not an all-or-nothing binary decision. It's perfectly possible to like a car and own the car whilst recognising that serious compromises have been made for no discernible benefit. <<
Exactly.
Mind you, a Tesla IS pretty binary.....
Exactly.
Mind you, a Tesla IS pretty binary.....
Similar threads
