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Phantom braking will get a lot worse before it gets better
- Thread starter conman
- Start date
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- autopiliot autosteer braking
Eno Deb
Active Member
As long as you are aware that NoA will not be autonomous driving anytime soon, that's fine. Personally I don't think assisted driving in cities will be all that useful, but we'll see.
Back to topic, phantom braking in action. Yikes.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Yikes indeed. I wonder how they're deciding how often to phantom brake vs. how often to slam into something? It's an interesting ethical question. I haven't actually heard any stories of people getting rear ended so it seems like they've got it dialed just about right.
that does not help much other then recording coordinates of what happened.
Also you need to call your SC and alert them you did all that bugreporting so they fetch the data and then hopefully do something with it.
What other way can I help tesla to be aware of these serious problems? It's probably radar based reflections but still... Are they not interested in talking to people and fix the issues?
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
I guarantee you that they are 100% aware of the scale of the problem and are trying to fix it. They have access to data from more phantom braking events and collisions than they could ever need. It's just not an easy problem to solve.
If only there was a standard "Tesla approved" way to report spots where autopilot misbehaved. There is no evidence that bug reports are being looked at and the email feedback hasn't worked in years...
there's [email protected] you can email that some people report they get responses form (I had no such luck myself though).
The ethical question was decided -- albeit I suspect without much thought, intention, or even awareness of the difficulty of solving this problem -- when they decided to sell a car with shitty cameras, a single forward-facing radar, and seriously underpowered compute hardware and advertise it as being L5-capable. And then keep doubling down on that stupidity. This is exactly the result that many predicted all along. At best, we have another couple of years of this sort of behavior until they get it figured out. At worst, they call this good enough for HW2.x and focus all their efforts on HW3, and the rest of us are stuck with this as long as we own these cars.
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
Not really. They could easily eliminate all phantom braking. Somehow they are choosing how much phantom braking is acceptable.
Like I said in the opening post - Uber trying to abolish phantom braking in its self drive cars is how they killed that woman. The phantom braking is there for a "reason". If they damp down its sensitivity the cars will run into more things...
Daniel in SD
(supervised)
https://www.globenewswire.com/news-...According-To-New-AAA-Automotive-Research.html
4 in 10 Americans Misjudge Partially Automated Driving Systems’ Ability Based On Their Name
4 in 10 Americans Misjudge Partially Automated Driving Systems’ Ability Based On Their Name
If that caused an accident the Model 3 driver would be liable. Since you can't realistically react to phantom braking fast enough, the only reasonable response is to disable AP when other vehicles are behind you.
If you drive regularly in almost any country you will come across idiots driving all sorts of cars with and without driver assistance technology.
Those idiots can and do brake for no obvious reason at times. I couldn't even begin to guess at the number of times I have had some moron slow down rapidly or brake hard in front of me with no prior warning and with no hazard in front of them.
Why do they do it? Because they are not very good at driving. Or they get distracted by something. Or they see the store they want to visit 5 yards before the entrance. Or They press the brake instead of the gas pedal by mistake. Or they change into 1st gear when they meant to change into 5th. Or they're hallucinating pink elephants running into the road because they're high on spice.
There are many possible reasons, but you as the driver following should be mindful this can happen and leave enough time and room to react accordingly. So it's not a problem unique to phantom braking and it wouldn't be an issue if all drivers paid attention and left plenty of time to react. It doesn't follow that a driver being rear-ended because of phantom braking would automatically be held responsible. If I drove into the back of one of those moronic drivers I've mentioned and they lied to the insurance company and said a dog ran out in front of them, who would be liable then?
All drivers have a responsibility to prevent and avoid collisions, whether they are human or AI.
Maybe it's different in the US, but if you brake for no good reason and there is an accident, you will be at least 50% liable. You might argue the other person was 50% liable for driving too closely, but only if you didn't recently move into their lane or do something else to close the gap.
Actually in the UK even if there isn't an accident you could be prosecuted for unsafe driving, get points on your licence or even lose it.
Reports suggest that NoA will merge too close to the car behind for it to go 50/50 if it phantom brakes.
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