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Tesla owners report dozens of instances of ‘phantom braking’
New complaints have dramatically increased in 3 months.
www.theverge.com
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Phantom Braking
- Thread starter 2101Guy
- Start date
www.theverge.com
Tam
Well-Known Member
There was so much hope expressed:
But the Verge says:
"The problem may be traced to the controversial decision last year to remove radar sensors from new Model 3 and Model Y vehicles. The decision came after Musk publicly expressed a desire to rely on cameras to power the company’s advanced driver assistance system."
So... Is Pure VIsion an upgrade or a downgrade?
Currently a downgrade in functionality but possibly just as good with less parts in the future. If that materializes, even cars with a radar would stop using it.
CDennis100
Member
I posted a similar comment in a different thread, but…
on a recent Toyota Camry rental their TACC and auto steer equivalents…radar based, were far superior to my beloved Tesla. Zero PB incidents. Car was also slow as a turtle in molasses but thats a different story!
VanFriscia
Member
It seems odd to me that these reports are popping up just now. While I agree that FSD Beta phantom braking is still pretty atrocious, on the highway it almost never happens to me anymore. The vision-based approach has definitely improved with time.
I drove 1300 miles last week on interstates with no phantom braking incidents. That's a huge improvement over the last few months.
Oddly, with 2021.44.30.7 I am seeing less phantom braking (at least with Autosteer). On a street near my house there are some small rises that used to cause the car to slow down. Since the last update those slowdowns have stopped.
What are you driving?
In particular, 2021+ Model Ys without radar and using cameras only have been slammed for this since they started coming out and these latest vision-only models are almost surely the reason phantom braking occurrences have exploded.
Roadshow put out this review in November lauding the the vehicle itself while being super critical of the ADAS
2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed
The Tesla Model Y seems like the complete package, but its active safety suite is so fundamentally flawed that the whole dish is completely ruined.
www.cnet.com
While we’re on the topic of recalls, there is a large article in today’s Washington Post about phantom braking problems with Tesla vehicles and the current NHSTA investigations into the issue. Seems unclear if this problem is related to sensitivity of the new Tesla Vision system vs the older radar sensors. Should be interesting to see how this gets resolved.
VanFriscia
Member
2018 Model 3, LR RWD FSD. So, I have radar but with FSD Beta (got in on the first rollout) my radar should be disabled. Therefore, I wouldn't expect it to be much different from a 2021 Y. I could be wrong, of course!What are you driving?
In particular, 2021+ Model Ys without radar and using cameras only have been slammed for this since they started coming out and these latest vision-only models are almost surely the reason phantom braking occurrences have exploded.
Roadshow put out this review in November lauding the the vehicle itself while being super critical of the ADAS
2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed
The Tesla Model Y seems like the complete package, but its active safety suite is so fundamentally flawed that the whole dish is completely ruined.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
There was so much hope expressed:
But the Verge says:
"The problem may be traced to the controversial decision last year to remove radar sensors from new Model 3 and Model Y vehicles. The decision came after Musk publicly expressed a desire to rely on cameras to power the company’s advanced driver assistance system."
So... Is Pure VIsion an upgrade or a downgrade?
Pure vision was introduced on all new cars starting in May.
The "spike" they're describing starts in November.
So blaming it on vision is an odd choice.
A less conspiracy-against-tesla choice might be observing that November is right after Tesla issued a recall on their FSD software (they stopped the bad rollout within hours, and had pushed a fixed version within a day or two) for a bug that caused VERY excessive phantom braking.
And even the "surge" was a whole.... 51 reports for the entire month. Up from 13.
Next month it dropped down to 32. Then next month 24.
On a fleet of almost 2 million cars.
I guess if you find the difference between 13 out of ~2,000,000 and 24 out of ~2,000,000 to be significant or not depends on how much $ you've shorted TSLA with
For example-
5NHTSA looking at braking issue in 500,000 Nissan Rogues | Car News | Auto123
The NHTSA is inquiring after receiving reports of a problem with the emergency braking system of the Nissan Rogue. Auto123 has the details.
www.auto123.com
NHTSA investigated Nissan after 840 complaints on a fleet of only 550,000 vehicles because
But yeah. TESLA has an epidemic problem unique to it despite there being far less complaints on a far larger fleet.
I drive a 2022 MYP and get phantom braking like once every few days. I drove 150+ miles a day. this article is months late.What are you driving?
In particular, 2021+ Model Ys without radar and using cameras only have been slammed for this since they started coming out and these latest vision-only models are almost surely the reason phantom braking occurrences have exploded.
Roadshow put out this review in November lauding the the vehicle itself while being super critical of the ADAS
2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed
The Tesla Model Y seems like the complete package, but its active safety suite is so fundamentally flawed that the whole dish is completely ruined.
EVRider-FL
Active Member
Not all new cars, only US-built Model 3 and Y cars. S/X still have radar. Details here: Transitioning to Tesla Vision
Doesn’t matter. The beta disables radar, and once the stacks combine, radar will be off whether it’s installed or not.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
It's NHTSA reports.
Which would 100% be US built cars.
Additionally S/X sales, especially in the period covered, are quite small.
Phantom Braking is real and out of control.
Last week driving down interstate TACC on. Nothing near me. Relaxed happy enjoying the car…….WHAM!
it slammed on the damn brakes so hard my wife and I were pushed into our Inertial reel locked seated belts so hard my hands came off the steering wheel and our heads were thrown forward. Almost instantly the brakes released, the car surges forward and out heads are flung back. A nerve was pinched in my neck during that whiplash and now my right shoulder muscle has been tensed up for days.
Absolute bullsh!t.
guess what? It happened again today.
This crap system needs to be fixed, auto braking disabled, or pulled off the market.
How can ANYBODY think this is OK?
www.protocol.com
Last week driving down interstate TACC on. Nothing near me. Relaxed happy enjoying the car…….WHAM!
it slammed on the damn brakes so hard my wife and I were pushed into our Inertial reel locked seated belts so hard my hands came off the steering wheel and our heads were thrown forward. Almost instantly the brakes released, the car surges forward and out heads are flung back. A nerve was pinched in my neck during that whiplash and now my right shoulder muscle has been tensed up for days.
Absolute bullsh!t.
guess what? It happened again today.
This crap system needs to be fixed, auto braking disabled, or pulled off the market.
How can ANYBODY think this is OK?
Teslas are braking in response to imagined road obstacles
The phenomenon is called "phantom braking," and it's been an issue since October.
www.protocol.com
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Phantom Braking is real and out of control.
Last week driving down interstate TACC on. Nothing near me. Relaxed happy enjoying the car…….WHAM!
it slammed on the damn brakes so hard my wife and I were pushed into our Inertial reel locked seated belts so hard my hands came off the steering wheel and our heads were thrown forward. Almost instantly the brakes released, the car surges forward and out heads are flung back. A nerve was pinched in my neck during that whiplash and now my right shoulder muscle has been tensed up for days.
Absolute bullsh!t.
guess what? It happened again today.
This crap system needs to be fixed, auto braking disabled, or pulled off the market.
How can ANYBODY think this is OK?
Teslas are braking in response to imagined road obstacles
The phenomenon is called "phantom braking," and it's been an issue since October.
Again, it's not unique to Tesla, and many other brands have even more complaints, lawsuits, recalls, and attributed accidents over it.
it's inherent to all versions of active cruise control from all car makers. Some are worse than others, but existing data does not support the idea Teslas is one of those.
See the example from Nissan I posted just a couple posts above yours- significantly MORE complaints, plus reports of actual accidents (which Tesla had 0 of from the data) and on a smaller total fleet of vehicles.
LOL The Washington Post.... it must be true.
El joe
Active Member
FSD is great for me on highways and rarely needs any sort of intervention unless I'm using NoA. Beta on streets though is relatively unusable to me. Too much phantom braking and just random stuff. The other day it just stopped in an intersection as it tried to run through a yellow light. No one else around so I let it do it and no harm done, but no explanation and it didn't make any sense.
CarlThompson
Member
Are you suggesting that all the accounts of phantom braking we've been hearing about here and elsewhere may not be true?
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