Phantom braking so bad I want to return my car

[Fourdoor]

You have to pay MORE attention to your driving while using AP and TACC, constantly wondering what weird thing the car will do to piss my wife off... I wonder if that accounts for the lower accident rate for AP? As the software sits now, I would give up AP to have dumb cruise control. Before the last software update (2021.4.21.3) it was not as bad with oncoming headlights as it is now. I am hoping that the next update makes it a bit better.

This morning after a few phantom brake events, I encountered a semi tractor trailer DOING A U TURN in the middle of town... AP saw nothing wrong with this and didn't brake. I took over and had to drop speed by 30 mph to give the "professional" driver in the tractor trailer time to get out of the way. I hit the horn to save that dash cam clip.

Keith

 

[DannyW]

Totally agree it’s like that, and agree about the oncoming headlight thing, I should have said that earlier.

The additional hand holding is a annoying considering that the cruise and autosteer features are marketed to make driving the car more relaxing and stress free. It’s nuts there are folks in the world that try to bypass the system with counter weights or sleep at the wheel while it’s on, so dangerous.

 

[GeoG]

There are three levels of emergency braking sensitivity. They can be adjusted. I say this from memory, without walking out to the car to get the screen page and exact terminology, and also with my evening Scotch in hand. I can if you need me to, but if you play around with the settings you will find it.

Cheers mate! High five to the scotch. Haha.

 

[aerodyne]

You can do a bug report and then when you contact Tesla they can pull it and look at everything.

But they won't...probably because then they would have to fix it.

They will ask for pictures with time stamps. Hard to do when driving.

 

[Iain]

But they won't...probably because then they would have to fix it.

They will ask for pictures with time stamps. Hard to do when driving.

I did a service report with different problems and they asked for bug reports. They used them and resolved the issue when the tech came out.

 

[SFNM Jack]

Cheers mate! High five to the scotch. Haha.

I’d be curious to know exactly where one can make this adjustment if you don’t mind looking and giving instructions. Probably before you crack the Scotch bottle for the evening…

 

[Edkwok]

Have you research about lemon law in your state?

 

[J_Nixon]

We live in Central Oregon and drive A LOT of rural 2 lane highways. Sometimes I feel like tesla programmers dont even know these roads exist. Phantom breaking is a huge issue on these roads. Below are the major issues. We have tried every configuration of functions being on or off and phantom breaking still persists. Worse in Auto Cruise but still pretty bad in autopilot.

Traveling on two lane rural highway. 1 lane each direction traveling about 65 MPH.

Truck in proper oncoming lane: moderate to heavy automatic breaking
Truck in proper oncoming lane at night with lights on : severe breaking
Car in proper oncoming lane: light to moderate breaking
Car in proper oncoming lane at night with headlights: moderate to severe breaking
Open road Skid marks on road: Moderate breaking
Open road with standard sage and other shrubs: occasional random moderate, moderate+ or light breaking

Is there any way to report these issues. Ver frustrating and at time scary.

These are very frustrating and really should be solved ASAP or give us complete ability to stop autobraking. The button available to turn off autobraking does not work.

Also FYI we made it from Hines, OR super Charger to Winnemucca, NV super charger on one charge. drove 55 for 180 of the 220 miles. Ended with 35 miles of range left.

I am having the EXACT same issues in Northern New Hampshire. My 2021 M3 FSD is having severe phantom braking problems. Roughly 75% of the time when there is a large vehicle in the oncoming lane, such as a logging truck, the car activates FULL brakes and it is very painful and scary to experience. This is especially dangerous if someone is driving behind me. This is not a new problem, but has gotten significantly more severe since updating to 2021.36.5.1.

 

[Dssyr]

I have a 3 yr old BMW with automatic cruise control and lane assist that works beautifully except it has to be nudged if the car is standing for 30 sec in traffic. We purchased the new tesla Y last month as a second car and am very frustrated with the lane steering. That’s basically useless. We had the phantom breaks on highway when a truck was in the adjacent lane. Tesla service said it’s routine expected behavior. Not good. Have filed a complaint with NHTSA. The only good thing about the tesla that there plenty of fanboys ready to pay good money for a used car. This one is soon going to be in the market.
Driving is good but the bumpy ride quality of backseat passengers is terrible.

 

[Dogeftw]

I am having the EXACT same issues in Northern New Hampshire. My 2021 M3 FSD is having severe phantom braking problems. Roughly 75% of the time when there is a large vehicle in the oncoming lane, such as a logging truck, the car activates FULL brakes and it is very painful and scary to experience. This is especially dangerous if someone is driving behind me. This is not a new problem, but has gotten significantly more severe since updating to 2021.36.5.1.

Same situation as you with the phantom braking. Worst in my 2021 MY then my 2020 M3. maybe the new use of just cameras without radar. Very dangerous. I do not to use AP on a 2 lane highway.

 

[N2B8]

Same situation as you with the phantom braking. Worst in my 2021 MY then my 2020 M3. maybe the new use of just cameras without radar. Very dangerous. I do not to use AP on a 2 lane highway.

This. I have 2 model 3 (2018). AP works flawlessly. Just picked up a 2022 Model Y. This car cannot handle 2 lane highway when there’s an oncoming truck. So I can’t use it unless it’s a divided highway. I miss radar AP.

 

[Dogeftw]

This. I have 2 model 3 (2018). AP works flawlessly. Just picked up a 2022 Model Y. This car cannot handle 2 lane highway when there’s an oncoming truck. So I can’t use it unless it’s a divided highway. I miss radar AP.

Yep always the semis that gives the MY an issue. I miss the radar AP as well…

 

[J_Nixon]

Yep always the semis that gives the MY an issue. I miss the radar AP as well…

Where I live, it is a two hour drive to the nearest interstate so my only option is to drive on 2-lane highways where there's an oncoming logging truck every few miles. Thus, AP has now become a hazard. It's almost like one of the major perks of owning a Tesla has been taken away. Bummer. I really hope Tesla fixes it soon.

 

[Fourdoor]

I now bring this up in every thread about how horrible TACC is. Using "speed limit mode" is almost like a half assed dumb cruise control. The problems are, you can't adjust your max speed while driving, and you have to rest your foot on the accelerator... but you completely eliminate phantom braking. You will still get the "oh my god we are going to die" beeping but at least the car doesn't jam on the brakes any more. Now my wife is only annoyed when I say "thank you Elon" every time the car beeps because it thinks we are going to die, rather than her being freaked out by the phantom braking.

Keith

 

[broadbandcwby]

We ju

This. I have 2 model 3 (2018). AP works flawlessly. Just picked up a 2022 Model Y. This car cannot handle 2 lane highway when there’s an oncoming truck. So I can’t use it unless it’s a divided highway. I miss radar AP.

We drove 14,000 miles on an early 2021 Y and experienced very few, if any, issues with autopilot. We just returned from a 2,000 mile road trip, mostly on rural roads, with a month old 2021 Y (no radar) and the car was unsafe to drive with AP off a divided highway.

The car seemed to be frequently adjusting speed before turns and hills but the changes were generally gentle and actually made me feel safer than how AP handled in our old car.

However, if a truck approached in the oncoming traffic lane the car slammed on the brakes (day and night). Also, before dusk road signs reflecting the sun caused the car to brake suddenly. In one situation, the breaks engaged when a truck was approaching and traveling two full lanes from our car.

I reached out to the Boise Service Center and they said everything looks normal and hopefully these issues are resolved with future updates. I guess we're stuck waiting? We also miss radar AP.

 

[DarthStar]

We ju

We drove 14,000 miles on an early 2021 Y and experienced very few, if any, issues with autopilot. We just returned from a 2,000 mile road trip, mostly on rural roads, with a month old 2021 Y (no radar) and the car was unsafe to drive with AP off a divided highway.

The car seemed to be frequently adjusting speed before turns and hills but the changes were generally gentle and actually made me feel safer than how AP handled in our old car.

However, if a truck approached in the oncoming traffic lane the car slammed on the brakes (day and night). Also, before dusk road signs reflecting the sun caused the car to brake suddenly. In one situation, the breaks engaged when a truck was approaching and traveling two full lanes from our car.

I reached out to the Boise Service Center and they said everything looks normal and hopefully these issues are resolved with future updates. I guess we're stuck waiting? We also miss radar AP.

This was my experience in Central California over the weekend...Cruise was unusable because of the sudden braking if there was a vehicle approaching in the other lane.

I now bring this up in every thread about how horrible TACC is. Using "speed limit mode" is almost like a half assed dumb cruise control. The problems are, you can't adjust your max speed while driving, and you have to rest your foot on the accelerator... but you completely eliminate phantom braking. You will still get the "oh my god we are going to die" beeping but at least the car doesn't jam on the brakes any more. Now my wife is only annoyed when I say "thank you Elon" every time the car beeps because it thinks we are going to die, rather than her being freaked out by the phantom braking.

Keith

Can you explain what "using speed limit mode" is? I'd like to try it next trip, thanks.

 

[coloradoken]

I just returned from a central Colorado to southern Montana round trip and drove 85% on 2 lane, rural highways and 10% of the driving was on I-80. Almost all of it was daylight in dry conditions. Early/late/glaring sunlight was an issue for 5 of the 35 hours of driving and about 5 hours was driven at night. The cameras and sensors were cleared and maintained for the entirety of the driving. We've had this MY since late September and we are familiar (4k miles driving) with managing the controls which, in my experience, operate similarly to other vehicles with similar safety and driver-assist features. Unfortunately, in regards to the effectiveness and ease of operation of the TACC, our Tesla is by far the worst of the 5 vehicles with which I'm familiar. The experience of managing TACC with oncoming traffic is frustrating, distracting and sometimes unsafe. Autosteer, because it builds on TACC's systems, is similarly deficient although the features it provides would be extremely welcome when TACC is improved.

Observations:

• Nearly every oncoming large truck (including many pickup trucks) caused TACC to brake the car
• TACC assisted braking was inconsistent. Sometimes an immediate, slight reduction in speed (5-10mph) and other times it was an immediate major reduction in speed, on the order of half-speed within 3 - 5 seconds. It was common to have the car brake from 65 - 35 for no other reason than a large, oncoming truck, in the correct lane, 100 yds away
• Alarms and warning messages were also inconsistent. Sometimes braking would be accompanied by an alarm and/or a warning message and other times not. Also, the messages themselves differed
• After 3 or 4 occurrences of heavy braking, I would turn off TACC and manually maintain speed with the accelerator. This in itself is fatiguing and I would eventually resort to a system in which I would disengage TACC when approached by a truck, usually 200 - 300 yds away and then reengage when traffic was clear
• Heavy braking was severe enough that, if a there had been a closely following/unaware car, it would have rear-ended our vehicle
• TACC had less frequent issues during interstate highway (I-80) driving but triggers were not oncoming traffic but, rather, related to:
  • passing of trucks/trailers/busses - this is a tendency I've noticed in other cars' systems
  • blotchy pavement conditions
• Rolling hills sometimes cause TACC to brake - this is a tendency I've noticed in other cars' systems
• TACC (and Autosteer) seem "happiest" when following other vehicles and, even on 2 lane highways, phantom braking was much less frequent
• Following Distance, as a setting, seems to be unreliable and I did not find much more separation for the 3-car setting and the 7-car setting - travel speed being equal when testing these settings. Speed modulation/control as it relates to Following Distance and when passing traffic is better in the Tesla than in other vehicles with which I'm experienced
• A standard cruise control (no Traffic Assist except for Following Distance) is not available but would be welcome

Summary:

On the Interstate Highway system TAAC works reasonably well but could use improvement. On 2 lane highways TACC is more work and less safe than operating the vehicle manually and, as a system designed to reduce driver workload and improve safety, it fails.

 

[mtndrew1]

So don’t use cruise control period. As I said, drive it like a normal car.

And yes, the bug report “feature” does not send anything back to Tesla. It adds a “bookmark” internally for the vehicle that no one ever looks at.

The only time Tesla potentially collects bug report data is when you are enrolled in the FSD beta. So that applies to like 5 people.

The “bug report” bookmark is useful for taking a snapshot for the service center to look at during a future appointment.

As said above it never leaves the car unless a service center is prompted to pull the log.

 

[coloradoken]

This was my experience in Central California over the weekend...Cruise was unusable because of the sudden braking if there was a vehicle approaching in the other lane.



Can you explain what "using speed limit mode" is? I'd like to try it next trip, thanks.

I think Fourdoor might be referring to Speed Assist which seems to provide some speed limit functionality but is ultimately controlled by the TACC and its phantom braking issues. I have not found a simplified cruise control setting and, if you review Speed Assist in the manual, you'll see it's only a way of controlling speed once you're in TACC.

 

[DogtownTX]

I love most things about my MYP, but TACC isn't one of them. Very disappointed in it vs. previous vehicles. I had zero phantom brakes in many many years and 1000's miles of use of other brands dynamic cruise. I naively thought all the basic (non-FSD) tech would be at least as good as a Mazda or Ford, but it isn't. I'll still use TACC every now and then and only when I don't have passengers. Still love the car overall, but in this area it disappoints. I'm hopeful for updates, so will keep fingers crossed.