Phantom braking so bad I want to return my car

[Fourdoor]

I have a radar car that works. I have no severe phantom braking issues (or even mild ones really). I signed up for the FSD beta the day before yesterday. I have a 99 driving score. If I get into the beta, go “vision only” and I report major problems with phantom braking will this still be dismissed as marginal / not directly related to vision only? Or will it be assumed that I am now lying or exaggerating?


I am mainly doing this because I have a car on order and I want to know what I am getting into with vision only. But, at least I can also give some feedback here for others as well.

I talked with my co-worker (radar car, on FSD Beta) and he says that the horrible PB has already improved some compared to the first software he started out on when he first got FSD Beta, but it is still not nearly as good as it was when his radar was active... and he is a hard core fanboy... for him to admit it is other than perfect is astounding

Keith

 

[Fourdoor]

I find this thread very interesting; It seems that if this was an ICE BMW, MB, Lexus. etc, etc....those with this problem would be all over the dealer for repair time table, a loaner car, and most importantly some type of compensation, especially in this price range....no?

So where is the disconnect?

No dealership to complain to is a major hurdle.

Do you know how to contact Tesla? I don't.

The only place I can contact is the nearest service center by making a service request (using a phone app, not talking with a human being), but from other people's reported experience the service center will tell me that AP and TACC are operating normally.

Even if you could contact someone, Corporate Tesla is laser focused on FSD Beta and figures improvements will eventually trickle down to us plebs.

Keith

 

[bodosom]

I forgot to mention above that my Y is NO RADAR.

No complaints about AP/TACC.

We've had vision only adaptive cruise control on our cars (Subaru) since 2014 and I love it. It has very straightforward, easy to predict failure modes so I use it all the time. So far our 2022 Model Y is almost completely unpredictable. Headlights coming over the bridge at night make it brake every time. Nearly every thing else seems random. My wife doesn't like cruise control of any flavor so she just uses PB incidents as an excuse to make fun of my choices.

We've only had the car for two weeks so perhaps I'll sort it out. Or just let her do all the driving.

 

[jama999]

So, an update to my experiences.

Yesterday and Today I drove down and back to South Padre Island to look in on Starbase, TX and everything going on there. My drive was about 410 miles each way plus screwing around in Brownsville etc. We took my Model Y Performance. If no one has been there, let me recommend South Padre Island. It is extremely low key and a great place with great people, food, music and a sleepy island vibe. It really makes the trip down there worthwhile to stay on the island and enjoy all it has to offer. My daughter and I went to a place that does Sea Turtle rescue and rehab this morning, at least as cool of an experience as SpaceX. But, I digress.

First of all before I get into all of the details, I have to say the MYP is a great little road trip car. It is comfortable, goes like an 8-legged dog, has lots of capacity and is easy to park. A great vacation-mobile as well. However, mine is a frustrating car to drive on the highway and has some inherent problems - all of which I think are solvable with software. See my overall efficiency and mileage below:

Now, the funky stuff.

1. I hesitated to mention it before, but as most people who frequent this forum know, the range is nowhere near as advertised. Even the EPA should be embarrassed by what they say this car can do on a charge. This really needs to be addressed. 303 miles is the advertised range of this car. There is no chance this car can go 303 miles. I think we all know this, but I think it would be better for the EPA to rate on real world, not some pie in the sky rating that *might happen* if 12 stars and 8 planets line up.
- I raised my charge limit to 100% for this trip. Although I never got there once, I did get to 95% a couple times, and even then it's not realistic. It takes forever to get there and does not really work when you are on the road. Most of you know this, but some n00bs wont. We need to be honest about the usability of these cars if we all want the ICE crowd to adopt these cars.
- Superchargers are not created equal. Ive been to 1 gen1, 3 gen2 and 2 gen3 on this trip. The only difference that it really makes is early in the cycle. The v3 are great, but they taper like all the rest. I did actually hang around the charger until it got way high as there was no way to make it to my destination without charging way higher than I would normally.

Let me also talk quickly about the superchargers on the way: (COMPLETE sidebar)
- Schertx, TX (Metro San Antonio) -150kw gen2 - In a grocery store parking lot - terrible. Bad traffic and hard to get to. Avoid
- 3 Rivers TX - in a Love Travel Center -150kw gen2 - just ok, decent to get to and on the way, but very busy and a little slow
- Kingsville TX - 150kw gen2 - also just ok, but adjacent to a Starbucks and a ChickFilA which makes up for it.
- Brownsville TX - 250kw gen3 - great charger, also in a grocery store parking lot, but not a great neighborhood and very busy. Tough drive to SpaceX from there, very congested.
- South Padre Island TX - Gen1, 72kw. Bad location. Hard to get to, out of the way, slow and nothing close except a hotel. The hotel has 16 destination chargers, but this SC is lame.

2. The cruise control and autopilot problems are severe in my car. Let me give a few observations.
- First I used regular TACC most of the drive. This much easier than autopilot and causes less 'stupid' from the car.
- I set my follow distance to the minimum. I did this because before I did, almost any time I went to pass a car moving slowly, it would put on the brakes - sometimes mild and sometimes severe, then would not resume the set speed until it was fully comfortable there. Sometimes this meant if the cruise was set to 80mph (way common everywhere in TX) - it would slow to as slow as 65, then take 15-30 seconds to resume back to where it was set. Its sluggish and annoying.
- The sensing for road objects ahead, even on straight and flat roads, is way too aggressive. I noticed in particular 2 things:
a - white vans - anything white with a paneled side, that I was in the midst of passing, would cause the car to slow dramatically and sometimes brake violently and cause people behind me to nearly run into me.
b - changes to the road surface - any time there is a seam, or a dark section of road by a light section of road, would cause the car to jack the brakes. This happened maybe 20 times on the drive.
c - oversized loads/trucks/things with flags - so anytime there is something in my lane, the car brakes. Great, expected behavior. However, anytime there was something with a flag or something on the side, the car would freak - especially flags, or anything highly reflective.

3. The cameras get confused and 'panic" a lot, especially at night.
- Lane markers - white stripes on the sides of lanes, especially on transitions to entrance and exit ramps, really freak the car out. For example, maybe there is a lane merging from the right with a large white line, and you are in the right lane, sometimes the car will brake or use aggressive correcting steering for no good reason. Sometimes its violent and a safety hazard.
- At night the cameras dont work - I get messages say "your cameras are blocked and need cleaning" from multiple cameras, especially the ones on the B pillars. This makes the car freak out, drive erratically and makes the cruise control basically unusable. I was on the way between here and San Antonio in the dark where there are lots of 'passing lanes' where the lane opens to 2 lanes, then a mile or so later tapers back to 1. Twice the car autobraked unnecessarily even when the lanes were clearly marked.

I have a theory that these problems with the TACC and autopilot have to do with a disregard for non-FSD customers. I believe a LARGE amount of the software development and AI talent is going into FSD and those of us who dont yet believe in it are getting left on the wayside. I have no proof of this, but I think the ends justify the means in that it makes sense. Those of us who have this set of problems need to stand up and make noise. I love my car, but right now its dangerous. Removing radar did this in my opinion (yes I know some of this existed already) - but who cares. If you pay this much for something, who cares how much you love the CEO. Lets get it fixed.

So, I dont know if this is at all useful to anyone, but please know I am really just trying to help fix problems not be critical. I want to fix this stuff, not diss Tesla. I am a shareholder and own the car and I am in 100%. Sorry for this braindump, but I am a little tired and now need a beer. Happy weekend to you all.

Thanks
J

 

[voltaren]

Well Tesla will fix the problem. When, I don’t know but hopefully soon. I remember when they switched from AP1 to AP2. I had both. AP2 was simply dangerous… it would swerve into the other lane on hills. It would slam on the brakes for highway signs. They eventually fixed it to where it was better than AP1… took them about a year though.

I’m more concerned about something that I think is new - a regression in capability for no apparent reason. Yes, we’re beta testers, but Tesla should not release a dangerous product which is almost what it is right now. My MY has radar, but it was clear that literally one day the radar played no part in the TACC. That vision-only TACC was rolled out way too soon.

 

[Petrol_Anon.]

So, an update to my experiences.

Yesterday and Today I drove down and back to South Padre Island to look in on Starbase, TX and everything going on there. My drive was about 410 miles each way plus screwing around in Brownsville etc. We took my Model Y Performance. If no one has been there, let me recommend South Padre Island. It is extremely low key and a great place with great people, food, music and a sleepy island vibe. It really makes the trip down there worthwhile to stay on the island and enjoy all it has to offer. My daughter and I went to a place that does Sea Turtle rescue and rehab this morning, at least as cool of an experience as SpaceX. But, I digress.

First of all before I get into all of the details, I have to say the MYP is a great little road trip car. It is comfortable, goes like an 8-legged dog, has lots of capacity and is easy to park. A great vacation-mobile as well. However, mine is a frustrating car to drive on the highway and has some inherent problems - all of which I think are solvable with software. See my overall efficiency and mileage below:

View attachment 740419

Now, the funky stuff.

1. I hesitated to mention it before, but as most people who frequent this forum know, the range is nowhere near as advertised. Even the EPA should be embarrassed by what they say this car can do on a charge. This really needs to be addressed. 303 miles is the advertised range of this car. There is no chance this car can go 303 miles. I think we all know this, but I think it would be better for the EPA to rate on real world, not some pie in the sky rating that *might happen* if 12 stars and 8 planets line up.
- I raised my charge limit to 100% for this trip. Although I never got there once, I did get to 95% a couple times, and even then it's not realistic. It takes forever to get there and does not really work when you are on the road. Most of you know this, but some n00bs wont. We need to be honest about the usability of these cars if we all want the ICE crowd to adopt these cars.
- Superchargers are not created equal. Ive been to 1 gen1, 3 gen2 and 2 gen3 on this trip. The only difference that it really makes is early in the cycle. The v3 are great, but they taper like all the rest. I did actually hang around the charger until it got way high as there was no way to make it to my destination without charging way higher than I would normally.

Let me also talk quickly about the superchargers on the way: (COMPLETE sidebar)
- Schertx, TX (Metro San Antonio) -150kw gen2 - In a grocery store parking lot - terrible. Bad traffic and hard to get to. Avoid
- 3 Rivers TX - in a Love Travel Center -150kw gen2 - just ok, decent to get to and on the way, but very busy and a little slow
- Kingsville TX - 150kw gen2 - also just ok, but adjacent to a Starbucks and a ChickFilA which makes up for it.
- Brownsville TX - 250kw gen3 - great charger, also in a grocery store parking lot, but not a great neighborhood and very busy. Tough drive to SpaceX from there, very congested.
- South Padre Island TX - Gen1, 72kw. Bad location. Hard to get to, out of the way, slow and nothing close except a hotel. The hotel has 16 destination chargers, but this SC is lame.

2. The cruise control and autopilot problems are severe in my car. Let me give a few observations.
- First I used regular TACC most of the drive. This much easier than autopilot and causes less 'stupid' from the car.
- I set my follow distance to the minimum. I did this because before I did, almost any time I went to pass a car moving slowly, it would put on the brakes - sometimes mild and sometimes severe, then would not resume the set speed until it was fully comfortable there. Sometimes this meant if the cruise was set to 80mph (way common everywhere in TX) - it would slow to as slow as 65, then take 15-30 seconds to resume back to where it was set. Its sluggish and annoying.
- The sensing for road objects ahead, even on straight and flat roads, is way too aggressive. I noticed in particular 2 things:
a - white vans - anything white with a paneled side, that I was in the midst of passing, would cause the car to slow dramatically and sometimes brake violently and cause people behind me to nearly run into me.
b - changes to the road surface - any time there is a seam, or a dark section of road by a light section of road, would cause the car to jack the brakes. This happened maybe 20 times on the drive.
c - oversized loads/trucks/things with flags - so anytime there is something in my lane, the car brakes. Great, expected behavior. However, anytime there was something with a flag or something on the side, the car would freak - especially flags, or anything highly reflective.

3. The cameras get confused and 'panic" a lot, especially at night.
- Lane markers - white stripes on the sides of lanes, especially on transitions to entrance and exit ramps, really freak the car out. For example, maybe there is a lane merging from the right with a large white line, and you are in the right lane, sometimes the car will brake or use aggressive correcting steering for no good reason. Sometimes its violent and a safety hazard.
- At night the cameras dont work - I get messages say "your cameras are blocked and need cleaning" from multiple cameras, especially the ones on the B pillars. This makes the car freak out, drive erratically and makes the cruise control basically unusable. I was on the way between here and San Antonio in the dark where there are lots of 'passing lanes' where the lane opens to 2 lanes, then a mile or so later tapers back to 1. Twice the car autobraked unnecessarily even when the lanes were clearly marked.

I have a theory that these problems with the TACC and autopilot have to do with a disregard for non-FSD customers. I believe a LARGE amount of the software development and AI talent is going into FSD and those of us who dont yet believe in it are getting left on the wayside. I have no proof of this, but I think the ends justify the means in that it makes sense. Those of us who have this set of problems need to stand up and make noise. I love my car, but right now its dangerous. Removing radar did this in my opinion (yes I know some of this existed already) - but who cares. If you pay this much for something, who cares how much you love the CEO. Lets get it fixed.

So, I dont know if this is at all useful to anyone, but please know I am really just trying to help fix problems not be critical. I want to fix this stuff, not diss Tesla. I am a shareholder and own the car and I am in 100%. Sorry for this braindump, but I am a little tired and now need a beer. Happy weekend to you all.

Thanks
J

Awesome write up and this was exactly my concern after going through the thread originally. Undoubtedly, I am excited about my MYP reservation, but it truly sounds like the radar should have been left on the 3&Y. Especially, since these vehicles do not have any forward facing dash. The FSD is cool, but seems very gimmicky to me at this time. Especially, since the PB seems to be such an issue currently. This just leads me to believe that the FSD is nowhere close to being complete.

No shame in saying that the S & X are simply not in our budget. Especially, since we have a baby on the way, but it seems that’s the way to go if you want to confidently utilize TACC and AP.

 

[boulder.dude]

I’ve found in my no radar MY that the same sections of road cause PB problems every time. I guess part of living with TACC in its current incarnation is knowing where you can’t use it. I drive ~200 miles per week and there is a single 5 mile stretch of road that always has this problem.

 

[WhiteWi]

I’ve found in my no radar MY that the same sections of road cause PB problems every time. I guess part of living with TACC in its current incarnation is knowing where you can’t use it. I drive ~200 miles per week and there is a single 5 mile stretch of road that always has this problem.

You nailed it.

 

[VT_EE]

So, an update to my experiences.

Yesterday and Today I drove down and back to South Padre Island to look in on Starbase, TX and everything going on there. My drive was about 410 miles each way plus screwing around in Brownsville etc. We took my Model Y Performance. If no one has been there, let me recommend South Padre Island. It is extremely low key and a great place with great people, food, music and a sleepy island vibe. It really makes the trip down there worthwhile to stay on the island and enjoy all it has to offer. My daughter and I went to a place that does Sea Turtle rescue and rehab this morning, at least as cool of an experience as SpaceX. But, I digress.

First of all before I get into all of the details, I have to say the MYP is a great little road trip car. It is comfortable, goes like an 8-legged dog, has lots of capacity and is easy to park. A great vacation-mobile as well. However, mine is a frustrating car to drive on the highway and has some inherent problems - all of which I think are solvable with software. See my overall efficiency and mileage below:

View attachment 740419

Now, the funky stuff.

1. I hesitated to mention it before, but as most people who frequent this forum know, the range is nowhere near as advertised. Even the EPA should be embarrassed by what they say this car can do on a charge. This really needs to be addressed. 303 miles is the advertised range of this car. There is no chance this car can go 303 miles. I think we all know this, but I think it would be better for the EPA to rate on real world, not some pie in the sky rating that *might happen* if 12 stars and 8 planets line up.
- I raised my charge limit to 100% for this trip. Although I never got there once, I did get to 95% a couple times, and even then it's not realistic. It takes forever to get there and does not really work when you are on the road. Most of you know this, but some n00bs wont. We need to be honest about the usability of these cars if we all want the ICE crowd to adopt these cars.
- Superchargers are not created equal. Ive been to 1 gen1, 3 gen2 and 2 gen3 on this trip. The only difference that it really makes is early in the cycle. The v3 are great, but they taper like all the rest. I did actually hang around the charger until it got way high as there was no way to make it to my destination without charging way higher than I would normally.

Let me also talk quickly about the superchargers on the way: (COMPLETE sidebar)
- Schertx, TX (Metro San Antonio) -150kw gen2 - In a grocery store parking lot - terrible. Bad traffic and hard to get to. Avoid
- 3 Rivers TX - in a Love Travel Center -150kw gen2 - just ok, decent to get to and on the way, but very busy and a little slow
- Kingsville TX - 150kw gen2 - also just ok, but adjacent to a Starbucks and a ChickFilA which makes up for it.
- Brownsville TX - 250kw gen3 - great charger, also in a grocery store parking lot, but not a great neighborhood and very busy. Tough drive to SpaceX from there, very congested.
- South Padre Island TX - Gen1, 72kw. Bad location. Hard to get to, out of the way, slow and nothing close except a hotel. The hotel has 16 destination chargers, but this SC is lame.

2. The cruise control and autopilot problems are severe in my car. Let me give a few observations.
- First I used regular TACC most of the drive. This much easier than autopilot and causes less 'stupid' from the car.
- I set my follow distance to the minimum. I did this because before I did, almost any time I went to pass a car moving slowly, it would put on the brakes - sometimes mild and sometimes severe, then would not resume the set speed until it was fully comfortable there. Sometimes this meant if the cruise was set to 80mph (way common everywhere in TX) - it would slow to as slow as 65, then take 15-30 seconds to resume back to where it was set. Its sluggish and annoying.
- The sensing for road objects ahead, even on straight and flat roads, is way too aggressive. I noticed in particular 2 things:
a - white vans - anything white with a paneled side, that I was in the midst of passing, would cause the car to slow dramatically and sometimes brake violently and cause people behind me to nearly run into me.
b - changes to the road surface - any time there is a seam, or a dark section of road by a light section of road, would cause the car to jack the brakes. This happened maybe 20 times on the drive.
c - oversized loads/trucks/things with flags - so anytime there is something in my lane, the car brakes. Great, expected behavior. However, anytime there was something with a flag or something on the side, the car would freak - especially flags, or anything highly reflective.

3. The cameras get confused and 'panic" a lot, especially at night.
- Lane markers - white stripes on the sides of lanes, especially on transitions to entrance and exit ramps, really freak the car out. For example, maybe there is a lane merging from the right with a large white line, and you are in the right lane, sometimes the car will brake or use aggressive correcting steering for no good reason. Sometimes its violent and a safety hazard.
- At night the cameras dont work - I get messages say "your cameras are blocked and need cleaning" from multiple cameras, especially the ones on the B pillars. This makes the car freak out, drive erratically and makes the cruise control basically unusable. I was on the way between here and San Antonio in the dark where there are lots of 'passing lanes' where the lane opens to 2 lanes, then a mile or so later tapers back to 1. Twice the car autobraked unnecessarily even when the lanes were clearly marked.

I have a theory that these problems with the TACC and autopilot have to do with a disregard for non-FSD customers. I believe a LARGE amount of the software development and AI talent is going into FSD and those of us who dont yet believe in it are getting left on the wayside. I have no proof of this, but I think the ends justify the means in that it makes sense. Those of us who have this set of problems need to stand up and make noise. I love my car, but right now its dangerous. Removing radar did this in my opinion (yes I know some of this existed already) - but who cares. If you pay this much for something, who cares how much you love the CEO. Lets get it fixed.

So, I dont know if this is at all useful to anyone, but please know I am really just trying to help fix problems not be critical. I want to fix this stuff, not diss Tesla. I am a shareholder and own the car and I am in 100%. Sorry for this braindump, but I am a little tired and now need a beer. Happy weekend to you all.

Thanks
J

Thanks for the good insight. Here's some additional observations from someone with an FSD-equiped Model 3.
- The FSD software detects speed bumps and seems to notice other in-road obstacles. It also misidentifies mis-matched pavement as an obstacle, which causes unneeded braking. I wonder if their non-FSD software is doing the same thing. They need more training data to make this system more reliable.
- The only time I see your on-ramp braking is when there is somebody on the ramp. The vehicle brakes to "let the guy in", sometimes rather hard. The system need to do a better job judging speed and deciding when it really needs to slow down. It is also annoying that the system still drifts over at ramps that don't have good markings. It's been like this for years and should be fairly easy to fix.
- Tesla is spending way too much time attempting to tackle FSD city driving, which is pie-in-the-sky crap. Most of us just want a hands-free experience on the highway. Tesla does not appear to be investing much time improving highway Autopilot, which is a shame, while other manufacturers have a fairly polished highway "autopilot".
- I have no issues at night with any of my cameras. Perhaps there is something wrong with your's, or the newer Y's use a different model than my 2018 3.
- The vehicle is way sensitive to construction zones. If you are not putting any torque on the steering wheel, the car immediately freaks out with loud warnings even though my hand is resting on it. Super annoying.
- I suspect the range on your Y would be closer to EPA if you drove 70mph instead of typical Texas highway speeds. Anything higher than 70 really drags the range down even on my 3. I bet the effect is worse on the Y at higher speeds. The performance's sticky tires don't help either.
- V3 Superchargers are so much faster that I avoid V2 if I can. The charge rate is very impressive all way to 80%. You really don't want to go above 80% unless you want to burn a lot of time.

 

[Petrol_Anon.]

You nailed it.

Lol. So, if I’m on a road trip, I should just deal with the PB issues like everyone here has clearly observed, or not use a feature that is clearly marketed by Tesla? Trolling at its best.

 

[turnbowm]

I have a MYLR on order for the wife and this phantom braking issue is very concerning. I don't want her to get rear-ended on the freeway if the car suddenly decides to brake from 65mph to 30mph for no good reason. My plan will be to leave all Autopilot features off until all issues have been resolved. Clearly, Tesla should not have pulled the plug on their radar-based system until the vision-based system had equivalent performance. Shame on Tesla for making business decisions that puts the public in harm's way!

 

[Skyeforge]

So, an update to my experiences.

Yesterday and Today I drove down and back to South Padre Island to look in on Starbase, TX and everything going on there. My drive was about 410 miles each way plus screwing around in Brownsville etc. We took my Model Y Performance. If no one has been there, let me recommend South Padre Island. It is extremely low key and a great place with great people, food, music and a sleepy island vibe. It really makes the trip down there worthwhile to stay on the island and enjoy all it has to offer. My daughter and I went to a place that does Sea Turtle rescue and rehab this morning, at least as cool of an experience as SpaceX. But, I digress.

First of all before I get into all of the details, I have to say the MYP is a great little road trip car. It is comfortable, goes like an 8-legged dog, has lots of capacity and is easy to park. A great vacation-mobile as well. However, mine is a frustrating car to drive on the highway and has some inherent problems - all of which I think are solvable with software. See my overall efficiency and mileage below:

View attachment 740419

Now, the funky stuff.

1. I hesitated to mention it before, but as most people who frequent this forum know, the range is nowhere near as advertised. Even the EPA should be embarrassed by what they say this car can do on a charge. This really needs to be addressed. 303 miles is the advertised range of this car. There is no chance this car can go 303 miles. I think we all know this, but I think it would be better for the EPA to rate on real world, not some pie in the sky rating that *might happen* if 12 stars and 8 planets line up.
- I raised my charge limit to 100% for this trip. Although I never got there once, I did get to 95% a couple times, and even then it's not realistic. It takes forever to get there and does not really work when you are on the road. Most of you know this, but some n00bs wont. We need to be honest about the usability of these cars if we all want the ICE crowd to adopt these cars.
- Superchargers are not created equal. Ive been to 1 gen1, 3 gen2 and 2 gen3 on this trip. The only difference that it really makes is early in the cycle. The v3 are great, but they taper like all the rest. I did actually hang around the charger until it got way high as there was no way to make it to my destination without charging way higher than I would normally.

Let me also talk quickly about the superchargers on the way: (COMPLETE sidebar)
- Schertx, TX (Metro San Antonio) -150kw gen2 - In a grocery store parking lot - terrible. Bad traffic and hard to get to. Avoid
- 3 Rivers TX - in a Love Travel Center -150kw gen2 - just ok, decent to get to and on the way, but very busy and a little slow
- Kingsville TX - 150kw gen2 - also just ok, but adjacent to a Starbucks and a ChickFilA which makes up for it.
- Brownsville TX - 250kw gen3 - great charger, also in a grocery store parking lot, but not a great neighborhood and very busy. Tough drive to SpaceX from there, very congested.
- South Padre Island TX - Gen1, 72kw. Bad location. Hard to get to, out of the way, slow and nothing close except a hotel. The hotel has 16 destination chargers, but this SC is lame.

2. The cruise control and autopilot problems are severe in my car. Let me give a few observations.
- First I used regular TACC most of the drive. This much easier than autopilot and causes less 'stupid' from the car.
- I set my follow distance to the minimum. I did this because before I did, almost any time I went to pass a car moving slowly, it would put on the brakes - sometimes mild and sometimes severe, then would not resume the set speed until it was fully comfortable there. Sometimes this meant if the cruise was set to 80mph (way common everywhere in TX) - it would slow to as slow as 65, then take 15-30 seconds to resume back to where it was set. Its sluggish and annoying.
- The sensing for road objects ahead, even on straight and flat roads, is way too aggressive. I noticed in particular 2 things:
a - white vans - anything white with a paneled side, that I was in the midst of passing, would cause the car to slow dramatically and sometimes brake violently and cause people behind me to nearly run into me.
b - changes to the road surface - any time there is a seam, or a dark section of road by a light section of road, would cause the car to jack the brakes. This happened maybe 20 times on the drive.
c - oversized loads/trucks/things with flags - so anytime there is something in my lane, the car brakes. Great, expected behavior. However, anytime there was something with a flag or something on the side, the car would freak - especially flags, or anything highly reflective.

3. The cameras get confused and 'panic" a lot, especially at night.
- Lane markers - white stripes on the sides of lanes, especially on transitions to entrance and exit ramps, really freak the car out. For example, maybe there is a lane merging from the right with a large white line, and you are in the right lane, sometimes the car will brake or use aggressive correcting steering for no good reason. Sometimes its violent and a safety hazard.
- At night the cameras dont work - I get messages say "your cameras are blocked and need cleaning" from multiple cameras, especially the ones on the B pillars. This makes the car freak out, drive erratically and makes the cruise control basically unusable. I was on the way between here and San Antonio in the dark where there are lots of 'passing lanes' where the lane opens to 2 lanes, then a mile or so later tapers back to 1. Twice the car autobraked unnecessarily even when the lanes were clearly marked.

I have a theory that these problems with the TACC and autopilot have to do with a disregard for non-FSD customers. I believe a LARGE amount of the software development and AI talent is going into FSD and those of us who dont yet believe in it are getting left on the wayside. I have no proof of this, but I think the ends justify the means in that it makes sense. Those of us who have this set of problems need to stand up and make noise. I love my car, but right now its dangerous. Removing radar did this in my opinion (yes I know some of this existed already) - but who cares. If you pay this much for something, who cares how much you love the CEO. Lets get it fixed.

So, I dont know if this is at all useful to anyone, but please know I am really just trying to help fix problems not be critical. I want to fix this stuff, not diss Tesla. I am a shareholder and own the car and I am in 100%. Sorry for this braindump, but I am a little tired and now need a beer. Happy weekend to you all.

Thanks
J

I can claim the exact same experiences with my MYP as well. But let me give y’all hope. FSD Beta has nearly resolved all of this for me. Emphasis on nearly. It’s not perfect, but the improvement to all the tacc and AP issues I had before beta have almost completely disappeared.
So take heart these updates will make it to normal AP and likely sooner than y’all might think. If you’re interested, I’ve been filming some of my FSD beta experiences.

 

[WhiteWi]

For all who are afraid of AP and all the dangerous hype stories go test drive and see it for yourself then cancel your order if you didn’t like it. Very simple. The continuing drum beat about what Tesla should have done or not is getting old.

 

[particleman]

We sold our May 2021 vision based Y over this issue a few weeks ago. It isn't safe. "knowing where we can't use it" was basically 90% of the roads we drove. Some of the constant downplaying of the issue around here is sad to see.

 

[WhiteWi]

We sold our May 2021 vision based Y over this issue a few weeks ago. It isn't safe. "knowing where we can't use it" was basically 90% of the roads we drove. Some of the constant downplaying of the issue around here is sad to see.

Good job! What did you buy instead?

 

[particleman]

Good job! What did you buy instead?

Mach E Premium and after 1,300 miles it hasn't phantom braked a single time.

 

[WhiteWi]

Mach E Premium and after 1,300 miles it hasn't phantom braked a single time.

Glad that you found yourself better car!

 

[VT_EE]

I have a MYLR on order for the wife and this phantom braking issue is very concerning. I don't want her to get rear-ended on the freeway if the car suddenly decides to brake from 65mph to 30mph for no good reason. My plan will be to leave all Autopilot features off until all issues have been resolved. Clearly, Tesla should not have pulled the plug on their radar-based system until the vision-based system had equivalent performance. Shame on Tesla for making business decisions that puts the public in harm's way!

It is not going to drop it from 65-30mph. It’s usually a sudden drop of about 15mph. Doesn’t happen that often except for one recent SW where it started occurring more. This was resolved for me with the last update. Certainly annoying, but not what I would consider unsafe unless someone is riding your bumper. BTW- I believe those of us with FSD Beta are using the same vision-only software stack for the highway as all the new Ys. Non-highway driving uses the FSD stack where phantom breaking doesn’t Ppear to be as much a problem.

 

[ftmaybe]

For all who are afraid of AP and all the dangerous hype stories go test drive and see it for yourself then cancel your order if you didn’t like it. Very simple. The continuing drum beat about what Tesla should have done or not is getting old.

Threads like this are about spreading the word so that people *know* this is something to look out for and go test drive. This is also a place where reports can continue to come in for a pulse on how current the problem might be. These things can’t happen however when you seem to marginalize and dismiss the issue entirely.

I wish I could test drive. My local service center just returned all of their demo cars and my SA says he’s not sure they will get any replacements. Now if I want to test drive I’ll have to drive two hours, which I’m not going to do any time soon. If people like me cannot test drive, threads like this would also be a good place to get information when and if tesla actually fixes the problem.

Test driving is how I came across the humming noise that shouldn’t be there. So there is certainly value there. I will say this would also be far less of an issue if tesla allowed you to test drive the car you are picking up like every dealer of every car I have ever bought. Here is the item you ordered, feel free to make sure it is in working order before you sign.

 

[ftmaybe]

It is not going to drop it from 65-30mph. It’s usually a sudden drop of about 15mph.

This is an older video but has several instances of dropping 25+ mph.