Is phantom breaking an issue in the US too? I live in Norway, and the car breaks down at random for no reason. This sometimes leads to dangerous situations. It is a common issue here. It's been like this for more than a year I think. It also happens if I drive on cruise control without autopilot.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Phantom breaking
- Thread starter kskog
- Start date
timvracer
Member
This is pretty funny actually.... just when I thought you meant "Phantom braking", you say "breaks down at random", which would indeed imply you meant "Breaking".
hmmm
hmmm
Tam
Well-Known Member
Yes.
As long as car manufacturers, including Tesla, are still using RADAR, an imprecise differentiation recognition system, phantom brakes will continue for a foreseeable future. Some got lawsuits as well.
RADAR can reliably detect many things but it is very bad at recognizing what's good and what's bad.
Scientists have been trying to improve its object differentiation for more than a century but this phantom brake is still problematic.
In World War II, RADAR can't tell the difference between very small, light and harmless aluminum pieces and very big and dangerous bombers.
As of this year, RADAR still can't tell which is a big harmless commercial Ukrainian flight PS752 passenger airplane and which one could be a small dangerous cruise missile.
Thus, it's pretty much a guess for your car's RADAR to differentiate which objects are bad and which ones are not so it can know when to brake or not.
So, instead of waiting for RADAR to improve, some have thought of switching to LIDAR, and still, some want to switch to camera like Tesla but it's still a nice thought for now.
Last edited:
The phantom breaking I have seen (in UK) in my experience almost certainly relates to multi-path radar reflection from large flat surfaces like overhead gantry signs rebounding a second time off road surface directly in front of the car.
Yeah, WTF is he talking about? I know he's EaaSL so can be forgiven, but it is not at all clear what he means.
Is his car breaking down at inappropriate times, or is it braking at inappropriate times?
ekendahl
Member
I'm from Sweden but I've lived in the US for over 20 years and I still make the "break" vs. "brake" mistake frequently - and I always second guess myself.
I also experience phantom or ghost breaking when using Autopilot (Model S from aug 19 with full self driving). It often causes dangerous situations when traveling at highway speed and when a car is behind me. I don’t get why TESLA hasn’t fixed it yet...
I never experienced it when I had my Model S from 2015 with AP1 or with the two other cars I had with a radar auto pilot.
I never experienced it when I had my Model S from 2015 with AP1 or with the two other cars I had with a radar auto pilot.
@ the OP (original poster)... dont worry about it, speaking as a Scot in the Bay Area of the US, I assure you, your Scandinavian education in English grammar and vocabulary is most likely of a higher standard than the natives here.... English/Science/Geography/History is not their strong points. They have many, many, many other strong points here but foundational basic education is not it... 
Hei fra denne skotske i Bay Area. Haper du koser deg med bilen... apologies for my poor norsk, its been a while since ive been over from Aberdeen..
Hei fra denne skotske i Bay Area. Haper du koser deg med bilen... apologies for my poor norsk, its been a while since ive been over from Aberdeen..
OTARon
Member
I call it "Afraid of its shadow" cant ever really find out why it will randomly start to break, last night in the dark and rain it gave the alert noise like i was about to hit something while traveling at 65 miles an hour. Good times
ekendahl
Member
SSonnentag
埃隆•馬斯克
That's OK, Tesla's own voice recognition software doesn't know how to spell "braking" either. No matter how clearly I say the word, it insists I'm reporting something "breaking."
ekendahl
Member
The video is well worth a watch. It gives a great view of what data AP uses and how decisions are based on building up a view of the liklihood of the returned data indication the existence of objects.
For the braking issue, look at the clump of many tiny radar returns off the road surface in front of the car as it passes under the bridge.
Last edited:
This phantom braking issue is really a dangerous problem.Hot off the press here in Norway: Three-car Chain Collision on the Europa 6 Highway due to Tesla Autopilot Phantom Braking.
(In Norwegian: Kjedekollisjon på E6 etter at Tesla på autopilot bråbremset)
"Drove on autopilot.
Police chief Anne Marie Dypdahl tells Adresseavisen (Ed: the newspaper) that it was a Tesla on autopilot that caused the collision.
- It looks like a truck was coming in a southbound direction, and that the Tesla, which came in the northbound direction with autopilot on, registered an obstacle in the road. This caused it to automatically apply full brake. As a result, the Tesla was hit by a car from behind, and the car that was driving at Tesla was hit by a truck from behind.-
- It looks like it was the autopilot mode that made the Tesla slam on the brakes. The driver did not get control.-
(In Norwegian: Kjedekollisjon på E6 etter at Tesla på autopilot bråbremset)
"Drove on autopilot.
Police chief Anne Marie Dypdahl tells Adresseavisen (Ed: the newspaper) that it was a Tesla on autopilot that caused the collision.
- It looks like a truck was coming in a southbound direction, and that the Tesla, which came in the northbound direction with autopilot on, registered an obstacle in the road. This caused it to automatically apply full brake. As a result, the Tesla was hit by a car from behind, and the car that was driving at Tesla was hit by a truck from behind.-
- It looks like it was the autopilot mode that made the Tesla slam on the brakes. The driver did not get control.-
Attachments
f205v
Member
I do not know the rules in Norway, but here rear collisions are ALWAYS the fault of the rear car.
You MUST always let enough safety distance from the car in front in case any unexpected braking happens, for whatever reason.
You MUST always let enough safety distance from the car in front in case any unexpected braking happens, for whatever reason.
Similar threads
