Phone as Key Issues

[N5329K]

I still love the "phone as a key." It is the card that is a big step backwards. If owners were provided with a Key FOB and the phone option, then eventually the phone would be the entry of choice for the vast majority, in my opinion.

People that don't need the functions (summon, etc.) or don't always want their phone with them, could stick with the Key FOB. Why limit the pool of owners with a technology that could frustrate some?

The best scenario is a Key FOB that is based on 315Mhz RF. Anything is better than using a card reader and placing it on a specific location of the car.

Phone -> Great idea.

Card --> Bad idea for now and for owners, but I can see the usefulness for the utility model of car-sharing.

I see the card as a necessary backup to a hit-or-miss primary...the phone. At first, I thought the card might be useful in certain limited situations. Valet parking, for one. But I hadn't considered how sketchy that use case would be with valets who didn't know how it's supposed to work, or where to wave the damned thing, or who might just leave it sitting in the car someplace.
The phone-as-key primary creates all these unnecessary additional problems for owners and for Tesla. No shocker that in my view solving the initial misstep will go a long way to solving all the fallout issues.
For those brave souls who really want to jump into shared ownership and renting out their Model 3 to strangers, the phone-as-key makes more sense. If, that is, it can be made to work reliably. If it can't be made to work reliably, then add angry midnight phone calls to owners from stranded renters to the list of why this is not such a great idea.
Meanwhile, there's an immediate fix available. I hope Tesla makes use of it.
Robin

 

[RTPEV]

For those brave souls who really want to jump into shared ownership and renting out their Model 3 to strangers, the phone-as-key makes more sense. If, that is, it can be made to work reliably. If it can't be made to work reliably, then add angry midnight phone calls to owners from stranded renters to the list of why this is not such a great idea.

Even this, if it even existed today, would not preclude the primary owner of the vehicle from using alternate means (such as a fob) to access the car.

Not so sure the renters would have the need or ability to call the rentee directly. I suspect Tesla's vision is that you would add your car to a virtual "fleet" managed by Tesla and all interactions would be between the renter and Tesla. The owner would simply flip the virtual switch to add their vehicle to the fleet, and other than any personal effects left out in the car or the license plate, there would be no way to tie back to the primary owner.

Clearly this is what Tesla had in mind when they decided to go the phone as key route and preventing access to private areas (frunk, glove box, etc) through software rather than hardware means.

 

[drawfour]

I still love the "phone as a key." It is the card that is a big step backwards. If owners were provided with a Key FOB and the phone option, then eventually the phone would be the entry of choice for the vast majority, in my opinion.

People that don't need the functions (summon, etc.) or don't always want their phone with them, could stick with the Key FOB. Why limit the pool of owners with a technology that could frustrate some?

The best scenario is a Key FOB that is based on 315Mhz RF. Anything is better than using a card reader and placing it on a specific location of the car.

Phone -> Great idea.

Card --> Bad idea for now and for owners, but I can see the usefulness for the utility model of car-sharing.

Personally, I want the phone to be able to ensure the car is locked, check the internal temperature, and set heat/AC a few minutes before going to it. Maybe remotely honk it or flash the lights to have fun with people checking it out. The fob though is how I would drive. I don't want to have to fumble with my phone to unlock the frunk when I'm carrying stuff. But I can easily hold a fob in my hand and press the right button to unlock it when I get near.

If given the choice between phone and fob for lock/unlock/drive, I would choose the fob 100% of the time. That said, I see no problem with allowing phone as well. It's just not the way I would use it. Really hoping for a couple fobs by the time I get to order/my car gets delivered.

 

[slipnslider]

But I was told the phone key works flawlessly for everyone except a handful of people complaining on the Internet and it would cost Tesla too much to develop an alternative to the key card for the car.

I see you've met elon's phalanx of phonefanboys.

 

[MP3Mike]

The best scenario is a Key FOB that is based on 315Mhz RF. Anything is better than using a card reader and placing it on a specific location of the car.

Do we know if existing cars have the 315mhz transmitter/receiver? If not they are going to leave out a lot of folks if they start giving fobs out.

Highly unlikely. The Model X already uses a BT fob and it works just fine. So my guess is that they will just add a BT fob to the Model 3, possibly as an option that you can purchase at the service center. (I've heard rumor that the Model S has been converted to a BT fob as well, but I can't verify that.)

 

[diamond.g]

Highly unlikely. The Model X already uses a BT fob and it works just fine. So my guess is that they will just add a BT fob to the Model 3, possibly as an option that you can purchase at the service center. (I've heard rumor that the Model S has been converted to a BT fob as well, but I can't verify that.)

We sure the X fob doesn't have both?

 

[lascavarian]

Which is more secure - the fob or the card? Which is easier to clone? Whatever is more secure and reliable holds an advantage. What is the replacement cost of the fob or the card? The card has no battery to go dead or fail but perhaps the card might be broken somehow but it seems more waterproof.

 

[jamnmon66]

Now that I've experienced the phone as key not working, I don't really think it's that big of a deal. Reset BT and/or launch the app on the phone & it's fixed. Takes a few seconds. Just me I guess and it sounds like my experience isn't nearly as bad as others since it does work the vast majority of the time.

Anyway, I love the feature so much that I'm willing to put up with a few glitches here and there. It would have to get a lot worse for me to want to go back to a fob. I can see where it would be nice for valet I guess but it's not worth much money to me.

My guess is that it's multiple different things each causing the problem in a specific set of circumstances. BT isn't the best technology in general. I have occasional problems with headsets and speakers too.

 

[slipnslider]

Now that I've experienced the phone as key not working, I don't really think it's that big of a deal. Reset BT and/or launch the app on the phone & it's fixed. Takes a few seconds. Just me I guess and it sounds like my experience isn't nearly as bad as others since it does work the vast majority of the time.

Anyway, I love the feature so much that I'm willing to put up with a few glitches here and there. It would have to get a lot worse for me to want to go back to a fob. I can see where it would be nice for valet I guess but it's not worth much money to me.

My guess is that it's multiple different things each causing the problem in a specific set of circumstances. BT isn't the best technology in general. I have occasional problems with headsets and speakers too.

Offering a fob wouldnt force you to use it. You'd be free to use your phone if you don't mind troubleshooting unreliable technology.

 

[JES2]

Which is more secure - the fob or the card? Which is easier to clone? Whatever is more secure and reliable holds an advantage. What is the replacement cost of the fob or the card? The card has no battery to go dead or fail but perhaps the card might be broken somehow but it seems more waterproof.

Key FOB 101 Tutorial:

1) A key FOB can stay in your pocket or purse to open a car door. The card must be placed on the physical car. Not good if we are carrying something or need to find a thin card in a purse or briefcase.
2) I can open the passenger door with a Key FOB, again in my pocket. The card entry point is only on the driver's side. Not good for a happy marriage.
3) I can open up a trunk with a Key FOB. The card cannot do that. Not good if I am carrying a cello.

Worrying about if a Key FOB's battery might die or if it is waterproof is an extremely rare scenario. The items listed above likely occur on a daily basis. What ever is more functional in operating a car on a daily basis holds the advantage.

Offering a fob wouldnt force you to use it. You'd be free to use your phone if you don't mind troubleshooting unreliable technology.

For some reason, this logic continues to escape a few posters.

 

[ewoodrick]

Now that I've experienced the phone as key not working, I don't really think it's that big of a deal. Reset BT and/or launch the app on the phone & it's fixed. Takes a few seconds.

Sure, standing in the rain for a few minutes isn't a big deal.
I'm also not a big fan of walking away from a car and knowing that it is locked. It could be an excellent opportunity for parking lot thieves lying in wait.

 

[iwannam3]

Sure, standing in the rain for a few minutes isn't a big deal.
I'm also not a big fan of walking away from a car and knowing that it is locked. It could be an excellent opportunity for parking lot thieves lying in wait.

It has locked 100% of the time for me. 80% for unlock and start. Got in the Prius with a fob and did not have to deal with anything except pressing start.

 

[trevorsg]

I'm new to this thread, so whatever, but I figured I'd avoid creating a new topic.

I've had my Model 3 since late March, and for the first few weeks, the phone key worked pretty well. I could go for nearly a week without any problems opening the door. Now, particularly after the most recent Model 3 update (not counting the braking distance update) I can hardly go a single day without having to airplane mode-cycle my Pixel XL. To be clear, I've not updated my phone's OS since taking delivery of the Model 3, and I have disabled battery saver for the Tesla app.

There is another strange issue that recently started. Sometimes the phone key will get the door unlocked, but will not allow the car to be driven. I will get in the car and press the brake, and the profile goes from Easy Entry to my personal seat preferences, but then I get the prompt to place the key card on the center console.

It has gotten to the point where I default to using the key card when I have passengers, just so I don't like like an idiot standing at the car holding the door handle until it opens.

My question: why can't my phone be used as an NFC key? Why does it have to be Bluetooth?

 

[JES2]

It has gotten to the point where I default to using the key card when I have passengers, just so I don't like like an idiot standing at the car holding the door handle until it opens.

I'm curious, if you are using the card with passengers, does the card unlock all four doors when you swipe in on the pillar? Or, do you have to take some additional step once inside the car to unlock the back doors and passenger side?

I would think it might be awkward on a date, in which you have to go over to the driver's side and unlock the door, and then run around to the passenger side to open the door for your date.

 

[trevorsg]

I'm curious, if you are using the card with passengers, does the card unlock all four doors when you swipe in on the pillar? Or, do you have to take some additional step once inside the car to unlock the back doors and passenger side?

Yes, it unlocks all doors. In fact, I'm not even sure the Model 3 has the concept of individual doors being locked and unlocked! By the way, I've never had a problem unlocking the car using the Tesla app when I actually go into the app and press the unlock button. Only the automatic unlock via Bluetooth gives me issues. So, if I were on a date, I'd probably use the app to ensure the car is unlocked instead of the key card.

 

[nvx1977]

I'm curious, if you are using the card with passengers, does the card unlock all four doors when you swipe in on the pillar? Or, do you have to take some additional step once inside the car to unlock the back doors and passenger side?

I would think it might be awkward on a date, in which you have to go over to the driver's side and unlock the door, and then run around to the passenger side to open the door for your date.

Card on the B-pillar unlocks all doors.

 

[iwannam3]

On some cars the fob opens only the driver door for security and two clicks opens all doors. And then it locks at 5 mph. I haven't noticed if the 3 locks at speed?

 

[jaroque]

I'm new to this thread, so whatever, but I figured I'd avoid creating a new topic.

I've had my Model 3 since late March, and for the first few weeks, the phone key worked pretty well. I could go for nearly a week without any problems opening the door. Now, particularly after the most recent Model 3 update (not counting the braking distance update) I can hardly go a single day without having to airplane mode-cycle my Pixel XL. To be clear, I've not updated my phone's OS since taking delivery of the Model 3, and I have disabled battery saver for the Tesla app.

There is another strange issue that recently started. Sometimes the phone key will get the door unlocked, but will not allow the car to be driven. I will get in the car and press the brake, and the profile goes from Easy Entry to my personal seat preferences, but then I get the prompt to place the key card on the center console.

It has gotten to the point where I default to using the key card when I have passengers, just so I don't like like an idiot standing at the car holding the door handle until it opens.

My question: why can't my phone be used as an NFC key? Why does it have to be Bluetooth?

I've been having the same experience with my Pixel 2 XL. After 2018.18.3 and 2018.18.13, I've been experiencing the same behavior you have with it not unlocking or not detecting to drive.

 

[jamnmon66]

Offering a fob wouldnt force you to use it. You'd be free to use your phone if you don't mind troubleshooting unreliable technology.

I get that and I'm glad that it sounds like Elon relented and is going to offer one at some point. More choices are better of course. I truly hope that it solves ALL of the problems mentioned in this thread. I just don't want any non-owners reading this to think that it's as bad living with the car as some of you are making it out to be.

To some, it's the worst thing that has ever happened and a reason to push the car off of a cliff (exaggerating for comic effect... hopefully). To others, like me, it's a very minor annoyance that happens every once in a while and does not diminish the amazement and enjoyment of the car at all.

 

[SDKoala]

Phone key is definitely worse for me since 18.3. No improvement on 18.13. It went from working reliably (with workarounds) to failing reliably every morning after waking from sleep since the 18.3 update last week. So frustrating.