Phone as Key Issues

[Kipp]

The only thing I haven't tried is to factory reset my phone. I'm getting close to trying that if the SC doesn't figure it out.

Got my car back from the Service Center tonight after they fixed my front USB ports (a cable wasn't seated somewhere), fixed a misaligned piece on the drive stalk and looked at my phone as a key issue.

While I was there, they walked through a number of potential issues that can be had with a phone as a key. Things like ultra power saving mode, airplane mode, bluetooth on, app running, app has GPS access, app has bluetooth access, and a few others I don't remember. While I was explaining my situation where the the Phone Key would show "disconnected" I showed the advisor my phone, as he was looking at it, the phone started to connect to the car. It has never done this before after saying "disconnected". This is progress! I unlocked the car manually to show that that worked as well. While we talked a bit longer, it disconnected again and I showed him so he said lets go out to the car. We got up and started walking to the door and my Phone Key connected again. (BTW, the car was about 50 ft away the whole time.) As we approached the car, the car locked since I had unlocked it earlier. I was able to touch the door handles and it unlocked successfully... Wow! And the car started on the first try.

Note that I didn't get the new update (2018.12) while at the SC and am still on 2018.10.5. The one thing that did happen that may have fixed it is last night at 4am, my ZTE phone received a very unusual android update to Android security patch level February 5, 2018. Wife got this update as well and her phone is working too.

At this point, it looks to have been fixed by the Android update. In other words I got lucky since I haven't had an update for over 6 months on my phone.

 

[JES2]

AHEM... forward circa... 2 weeks ago.

Took my Model S in to Tesla for the yearly service which includes swapping the keyfob batteries. 2 days later my fob was dead.

Took it back to Tesla, they apologized for giving me a dead battery and swapped the battery for a known new one. Took the car to the office 2 days later, came down into the parking lot and... nothing. Keyfob dead again. Because I was in the parking lot, my car didn't have LTE service and I couldn't remotely unlock it.

I had to take a Taxi home and bring in the other fob the next day. Now I have to go into Tesla to have the fob completely exchanged.

With both key types of the Model 3 this wouldn't have happen. If my phone was dead it's very simple to recharge - don't need special batteries. And the RFID card doesn't go dead. It's very nice to have a second backup with a completely different technology. I don't even have to take it out of my wallet, I simply swipe my wallet against the door... (which elicit some strange looks, but alas).

You can go over to the Tesla website forum and there was one example of a guy that could not get into his Mod 3 with either the phone or the card. Neither worked. (In his case, he needed the car to be towed, not just a backup FOB.) I would assume that the scenario you describe and the one he describes are both fairly rare events. No method is completely foolproof. Plus, your case suggests that it initially works to travel and then fails at the destination. I would argue that is an extremely rare case for such a simple device.

I have had a 2009 BMW for almost 9 years now. Same key FOB, never had an instance in which I walked right up to the car, touched the handle, and it did not open. Never had an instance I could not lock the car by touching the top of the door handle. You simply will not be able to improve (or even meet) that reliability with the variety of phones / software out there. It is a simple versus complex argument.

Other than you, I simply have not heard any drivers commenting that they have reliability issues with FOBs, and that is a long track record with millions of cars. Not just Tesla.

Again, I (and others) are not suggesting we do away with the phone entry (or even the cards for that matter) method. I actually love what the phones can eventually deliver, but there are many reasons why a FOB alternative makes sense.

 

[daniel]

AHEM... forward circa... 2 weeks ago.

Took my Model S in to Tesla for the yearly service which includes swapping the keyfob batteries. 2 days later my fob was dead.

After several years of ownership, the battery died in the key fob for my Prius. I took out the physical key and got in the car. I slid the fob into the slot and the car started and ran just fine. Toyota got it right. Even with a dead fob battery the car works. When I had an opportunity I bought a watch battery at a drugstore, put it in the fob, and the fob has been like new ever since. I expect it will need a new battery again soon. No worries. If it dies when I'm using it, I can use the physical key to lock and unlock the car, and slide the fob into the slot to run the car.

... The one thing that did happen that may have fixed it is last night at 4am, my ZTE phone received a very unusual android update to Android security patch level February 5, 2018. Wife got this update as well and her phone is working too.

At this point, it looks to have been fixed by the Android update. In other words I got lucky since I haven't had an update for over 6 months on my phone.

And another OS update on the phone could cause it to quit working again. Or the next iOS update for us iPhone users could suddenly cause it to quit working. Phones and their OSs are too varied to be a reliable means of getting into the car. And when the car dies completely (12V failure) a physical key could always open the door so at least you can get your stuff out of the car before shipping it to Tesla. But a physical door lock would mar the "minimalist" appearance of the car, so we didn't get one.

It's not something I'm too worried about because I think the likelihood is very low, but if the 12V dies while I'm at a stop on my way to hiking, and I cannot get into the car at all, all my hiking gear will be locked inside until the car is shipped to Tesla and back to me. I won't just arrive a day late for hiking, I will have no gear. Tesla got nearly everything right on this car, but the key issue is something they got VERY wrong.

 

[nonstickrobot]

After several years of ownership, the battery died in the key fob for my Prius. I took out the physical key and got in the car. I slid the fob into the slot and the car started and ran just fine. Toyota got it right. Even with a dead fob battery the car works. When I had an opportunity I bought a watch battery at a drugstore, put it in the fob, and the fob has been like new ever since. I expect it will need a new battery again soon. No worries. If it dies when I'm using it, I can use the physical key to lock and unlock the car, and slide the fob into the slot to run the car.



And another OS update on the phone could cause it to quit working again. Or the next iOS update for us iPhone users could suddenly cause it to quit working. Phones and their OSs are too varied to be a reliable means of getting into the car. And when the car dies completely (12V failure) a physical key could always open the door so at least you can get your stuff out of the car before shipping it to Tesla. But a physical door lock would mar the "minimalist" appearance of the car, so we didn't get one.

It's not something I'm too worried about because I think the likelihood is very low, but if the 12V dies while I'm at a stop on my way to hiking, and I cannot get into the car at all, all my hiking gear will be locked inside until the car is shipped to Tesla and back to me. I won't just arrive a day late for hiking, I will have no gear. Tesla got nearly everything right on this car, but the key issue is something they got VERY wrong.

I actually agree with this. I would say about 30-40% of the time that I approach my car and try to open the door, it’s still locked. I have to manually pull out my phone, open the Tesla app and tap unlock.

I’ve called Tesla and they haven’t really offered a solution other than updating to latest version of iOS and recommending I turn location services to “always on.”

At this point I actually wish I had the option for a standard key. Even the key card is finicky.

 

[daniel]

I actually agree with this. I would say about 30-40% of the time that I approach my car and try to open the door, it’s still locked. I have to manually pull out my phone, open the Tesla app and tap unlock.

I’ve called Tesla and they haven’t really offered a solution other than updating to latest version of iOS and recommending I turn location services to “always on.”

At this point I actually wish I had the option for a standard key. Even the key card is finicky.

It there a reason you don't want location services always on for the Tesla app? It's not like they can't see where your car is anyway. Actually, I can't figure why the app would need location services always on when the key operates by BT, unless the always on location services is the trick they are using to keep the app itself running in the background. I suspect that maybe iOS actually shuts apps off after a brief period in the background and location services is the kludge they use to prevent this. (???)

None of this is an issue with a key fob.

 

[nonstickrobot]

It there a reason you don't want location services always on for the Tesla app? It's not like they can't see where your car is anyway. Actually, I can't figure why the app would need location services always on when the key operates by BT, unless the always on location services is the trick they are using to keep the app itself running in the background. I suspect that maybe iOS actually shuts apps off after a brief period in the background and location services is the kludge they use to prevent this. (???)

None of this is an issue with a key fob.

Yeah I think the issue is likely that iOS apps enter sleep mode after a few minutes. I don’t mind having location always on for privacy. It’s more for potential battery drain issues on my phone. Although in iOS 11, it seems that location also goes to sleep.

 

[RubberToe]

Just FYI, MrsRubberToe's new Google Pixel 2 works fine as the key.

RT

 

[AllDigital]

Wowzers. I started this thread just three months ago and it already has almost 500 posts.
My experience in the past three months is that the "Phone as Key" is awesome when it works, but when it doesn't work or you can't get it setup right it is a nightmare, since the card key is such a bad experience. For the most part, our phones have worked 99% of the time in the last three months (an iPhoneX and iPhone6) and the improvements in 2018.10.5 have made the experience even better.

I come back to this thread today, because after we got our M3 from the service center today the Phone As Key was not working. Under the key management our phones showed up twice, each with a duplicate cert. So, I did the obvious, and deleted all four to then re-add them. The delete worked well, but re-adding was a chore. Even though each phone got notified that all four were removed the app on both phones did not default back to a "setup your key" mode. They stayed in the "disconnected" mode and therefor I couldn't add them back in. The fix for this, like a lot of the phone as key issues, was to log out of the app, fully delete the app from the iphone, re-add the Tesla app from the app store, and then log in again. On one phone, I needed to do this twice, but I was able to get the "setup your phone as key" to come back to the Tesla app. After that they setup as keys just fine. I tried a lot of other steps like reseting the phone, logging out, killing the app, etc., but a full delete and re-add from the app store was the final fix.

 

[azred]

AHEM... forward circa... 2 weeks ago.

Took my Model S in to Tesla for the yearly service which includes swapping the keyfob batteries. 2 days later my fob was dead.

Took it back to Tesla, they apologized for giving me a dead battery and swapped the battery for a known new one. Took the car to the office 2 days later, came down into the parking lot and... nothing. Keyfob dead again. Because I was in the parking lot, my car didn't have LTE service and I couldn't remotely unlock it.

I had to take a Taxi home and bring in the other fob the next day. Now I have to go into Tesla to have the fob completely exchanged.

With both key types of the Model 3 this wouldn't have happen. If my phone was dead it's very simple to recharge - don't need special batteries. And the RFID card doesn't go dead. It's very nice to have a second backup with a completely different technology. I don't even have to take it out of my wallet, I simply swipe my wallet against the door... (which elicit some strange looks, but alas).

Ok, that’s a good start on one page. I look forward to reading the other 23 in a thread discussing Model S key fob problems. The topic here is the Model 3 phone as key issues. Hopefully Tesla will recognize they have a big problem that will grow rapidly as they ramp up production.

 

[Argyle]

Just FYI, MrsRubberToe's new Google Pixel 2 works fine as the key.

RT

We have Pixel 2/Pixel 2 XL and it's occasionally not working. Maybe 5 to 10% of the time. Happened this afternoon and the phone key in the app showed as "connecting" but the car opened up instantly when I pressed the unlock button in the app. We're on FW 10.5 on the car and the April update on the phone.

 

[Shygar]

Not sure if this is posted elsewhere but you can try setting the Tesla app to not be battery optimized on Android. Here's a screenshot from my Samsung Galaxy S8 running Oreo 8.0.

 

[Bruinfan]

my update:
recieved 2018.12 update Thursday nite, worked great for 3 days. No go this AM.

I will say this:
my phone bluetooth was having a hard time connecting to my headphones yesterday... I had to restart my phone.

whatever that is worth.

I am going to restart my phone every nite. See what that gets me.

 

[JES2]

After several years of ownership, the battery died in the key fob for my Prius. I took out the physical key and got in the car. I slid the fob into the slot and the car started and ran just fine. Toyota got it right. Even with a dead fob battery the car works. When I had an opportunity I bought a watch battery at a drugstore, put it in the fob, and the fob has been like new ever since. I expect it will need a new battery again soon. No worries. If it dies when I'm using it, I can use the physical key to lock and unlock the car, and slide the fob into the slot to run the car.



And another OS update on the phone could cause it to quit working again. Or the next iOS update for us iPhone users could suddenly cause it to quit working. Phones and their OSs are too varied to be a reliable means of getting into the car. And when the car dies completely (12V failure) a physical key could always open the door so at least you can get your stuff out of the car before shipping it to Tesla. But a physical door lock would mar the "minimalist" appearance of the car, so we didn't get one.

It's not something I'm too worried about because I think the likelihood is very low, but if the 12V dies while I'm at a stop on my way to hiking, and I cannot get into the car at all, all my hiking gear will be locked inside until the car is shipped to Tesla and back to me. I won't just arrive a day late for hiking, I will have no gear. Tesla got nearly everything right on this car, but the key issue is something they got VERY wrong.

For current owners, can you tell me if there is a card reader on both sides (pillars) of the Model 3? Or, is it only located on the driver's side?

 

[MP3Mike]

For current owners, can you tell me if there is a card reader on both sides (pillars) of the Model 3? Or, is it only located on the driver's side?

Driver's side only.

 

[daniel]

For current owners, can you tell me if there is a card reader on both sides (pillars) of the Model 3? Or, is it only located on the driver's side?

Driver's side only.

Yeah. There are identical oval patterns on both sides, but only the driver's side has the RFID reader for the key card.

 

[MP3Mike]

There are identical oval patterns on both sides

The oval patterns are the forward facing side cameras.

 

[daniel]

The oval patterns are the forward facing side cameras.

Hey, you're right! I could never tell before because of the sunlight outside, but after reading your post I went out to the garage, and I can actually see the cameras. They point forward and to the side.

 

[Argyle]

Not sure if this is posted elsewhere but you can try setting the Tesla app to not be battery optimized on Android. Here's a screenshot from my Samsung Galaxy S8 running Oreo 8.0.
View attachment 292633

I tried this and the problem still occurs occasionally, unfortunately.

When it happens you can hear what sounds like the clunk of the contactors when you pull the handle. Opening the Tesla app shows the phone key as "connecting" even though the car has woken up and the data in the app has refreshed. After 30 seconds to a minute the phone key showed up as connected and the doors/trunk could be opened.

 

[Pinot.Noir]

After 30 seconds to a minute the phone key showed up as connected and the doors/trunk could be opened.

Extremely convenient if it's raining cats and dogs, or some creep is following my wife to her car. Thanks Tesla!

 

[John Beans]

I now use my phone's Settings to turn off Bluetooth when I get home, then use the quick swipe menu to turn it back on when I am going to get in my car (on Android you can use quick swipe for both; Apple's quick swipe just turns it off "until tomorrow"). I don't do this at stores or at at any location where I'll be clearly out of Bluetooth range (> 100 feet, behind walls). In those cases, I leave Bluetooth on. The phone as key works all the time if I do this. Kind of a pain, but better than rebooting.

The reason I do this is because I've designed the Bluetooth products and I've had to deal with this issue on my products already. Bluetooth wasn't designed with "coming and going" in mind, so if you hover at the fringes of reception—like in most peoples' houses—you'll eventually invoke a stack ban, and restoring communications will require a restart. It's very frustrating for app developers like Tesla to deal with, because it's buried in the OS at a level app developers are deliberately not granted access to. It's never an issue for devices that are stationary, so most companies don't encounter it.

If you're lucky enough to have a home/garage that blocks Bluetooth or is far enough away from your phone, you won't have to do this.

Longer term, Apple and Google need to help app developers deal with "coming and going" Bluetooth use cases. Wouldn't take much. They could start by exposing signal strength and perhaps allowing app developers to read and reset the timeouts and retry limits that lead to stack bans. In the past, they have been loathe to do this for battery life reasons.