With software, they could do almost anything. A multi-finger gesture such as swiping down the screen could launch the presets you're talking about and take up the entire screen with things like favorite radio stations, pano roof controls...etc. It would be user configurable.
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Physical buttons in Model S
- Thread starter smoothoperator
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- Model S User Interface
PattyChuck
Model S P100D, Model X P90D
I wouldn't go so far as to call your comparison silly, more like apples to oranges-that-taste-like-apples. The MFD has similar functionality to the 17" touchscreen, but not the PFD. The vast majority of installed glass panels do not offer touch screen capabilities. It's also important to note that all Garmin touchscreen installs have some form of hard-key backup, meaning the pilot can input their desired intentions by touching the screen, or twisting the knobs. The S has no other way to do this except via the 17" touchscreen.
I do agree that cars are cluttered with switches, though (my dad once commented that my steering wheel had 19 switches on it. It blew my mind when I counted and he was right!).
Just gonna say that I don't think there's any sin to having physical buttons for frequently used functions in addition to the more functional touch screen. Again, the Prius really was the first to have this sort of techologic options and since I've been driving mine for nearly 9 years I feel qualified to say that I really enjoy and appreciate the versatility of the touch screen and the extensive options and information one can get from it. And I look forward to having the extra space and versatility the screen that will be in my Model S.
But the reality is that very often you like to just be able to keep your hands on the wheel and without looking use one's thumb to adjust the AC temp or radio volume or to switch between the NAV screen and audio or INFO screens without taking your eyes off the road. The buttons are conveniently placed and have unique tactile configurations that allows you to do this in the dark or without looking. For those features there's just nothing better, IMO.
It's not an admission of defeat or failure to add extra functionality and convenience, the important thing is that the final product is the best possible combination of functionality and convenience and technology for the driver while being as safe and reliable as possible. Further, if one's touch screen should go out the mechanical buttons would allow one to still be able to access/use the major features (air, radio, etc) until a repair could be facilitated. Without that one is almost handicapped.
But the reality is that very often you like to just be able to keep your hands on the wheel and without looking use one's thumb to adjust the AC temp or radio volume or to switch between the NAV screen and audio or INFO screens without taking your eyes off the road. The buttons are conveniently placed and have unique tactile configurations that allows you to do this in the dark or without looking. For those features there's just nothing better, IMO.
It's not an admission of defeat or failure to add extra functionality and convenience, the important thing is that the final product is the best possible combination of functionality and convenience and technology for the driver while being as safe and reliable as possible. Further, if one's touch screen should go out the mechanical buttons would allow one to still be able to access/use the major features (air, radio, etc) until a repair could be facilitated. Without that one is almost handicapped.
I can operate every control in my RAV4-EV by touch without looking away from the road. And, because the car is utterly un-automated, I have to, since I am the "computer"!
My hope is that with all of Model S's automation features, the need to actually interact with the car's controls while driving will be comparatively minimized. For example, the climate control is thermostatic, unlike my car, so there shouldn't be a lot of need to constantly tweak it. Stereo controls are on the wheel. There's the promised voice command as well. I wonder about the panoramic roof, but if that's well implemented on the touch screen and backed up with voice command it should really be fine.
So, I'm optimistic.
I do like the idea of a console that had an option for a couple of assignable rocker switches. Heck, it could use one of the USB ports to make the connection to the car. My driveway has a swale at the bottom, so I expect to get a lot of use out of the air suspension's ability to jack the car up a bit. How easy will that be to access? As something I will do possibly every single day, might it warrant a hard button? Time will tell.
My hope is that with all of Model S's automation features, the need to actually interact with the car's controls while driving will be comparatively minimized. For example, the climate control is thermostatic, unlike my car, so there shouldn't be a lot of need to constantly tweak it. Stereo controls are on the wheel. There's the promised voice command as well. I wonder about the panoramic roof, but if that's well implemented on the touch screen and backed up with voice command it should really be fine.
So, I'm optimistic.
I do like the idea of a console that had an option for a couple of assignable rocker switches. Heck, it could use one of the USB ports to make the connection to the car. My driveway has a swale at the bottom, so I expect to get a lot of use out of the air suspension's ability to jack the car up a bit. How easy will that be to access? As something I will do possibly every single day, might it warrant a hard button? Time will tell.
Everyone complained about the iPhone not having a keyboard and only one button. It's just like not having an ICE engine sound. It's not bad it is just different.
Instead of appreciating the roar appreciate the quite. Instead of the texture of buttons you have highly configurable interface that can be upgraded.
Don't make it what it isn't. I think it would be a good idea to keep in mind how to accommodate more peoples 'likes' into the design. They could provide a bluetooth or wifi based protocol for 3rd party controls.
Instead of appreciating the roar appreciate the quite. Instead of the texture of buttons you have highly configurable interface that can be upgraded.
Don't make it what it isn't. I think it would be a good idea to keep in mind how to accommodate more peoples 'likes' into the design. They could provide a bluetooth or wifi based protocol for 3rd party controls.
Comparing the "touch only" choice of iPhone with Model S, I concur that it's a reasonable comparison when parked.
When in motion, it's a whole different ball of wax. You simply cannot reliably operate a touch screen without looking at it. With physical controls you can.
If the touch screen had heat or vibration when your finger was "near" (proximity sensor) the "buttons" prior to touching them, it might match physical controls in the "no look" usage scenario. It would take some getting used to though, of course.
Edit: If there was such a proximity sensor in the Model S, I'd love to see some 3rd party apps explore UI choices that makes different sounds when you are near buttons.
jbherman
Member
Most of these issues can be addressed with robust and accurate voice operated command options (for those who don't mind having a constant dialog with their car). That would work fine for me. I like the absence of buttons.
Tesla has been unusually quiet on the Voice Command front (no pun intended); I have not seen a voice control stalk or steering wheel button on the Beta's.
This is a slippery slope, I would not feel comfortable about the prospect of the Model S being hacked (or wireless interference) and some prankster possibly controlling major systems of the car. I would much rather have a control system that plugs into the diagnostic port (like the OVMS units for the Roadster).
i wouldn't call it silly exactly, but perhaps inaccurate. the fact is that traditionally almost nothing in a plane is a touchscreen. yes, they have glass cockpits, but until very recently they are for displays only. virtually every control in a plane is still physical, albeit digital, with physical actuators, not touchscreen. that is changing right now, but most avionics manus are opting, wisely i would bet, to retain physical knobs in addition to touchscreen capability. we will see what the aviation community thinks about touchscreen only, my guess is that it is not completely advisable in such life or death situations as can arise in a cockpit. i may disagree with your assessment about the relative import of the touchscreen interface in a car versus a plane. in a car you can always step on the brake and stop the vehicle, pull to the side, what have you, to determine your position, reset your plans, catch your breath, etc. in a plane you have no such option. flight planning and executing is a continuous and un-pausable process. maintaining situational awareness and control is essential at every moment.
that said, i personally feel that touchscreen input will be the way all car manus will go for functions such as nav, comm, environment, etc. tesla is leading the way there. the challenge is to keep the interface clean and functional and non-distracting. i fear the first several accidents that result from tesla drivers paying too much attention to their engrossing displays instead of the road. this will happen. and there will probably be a firmware update to lessen the interactivity. i hope it doesn't happen. i want all the access we now have to the controls and features while driving, and prefer to leave it up to the drivers to maintain safe margins and situational awareness. unfortunately, if history is any guide, there will be those of us who don't, and the system will have to be curtailed to ensure safety.
is the situation now that certain functions in the model s, like web browsing, don't function without a passenger seat occupant? seems smart, but i'm already daydreaming about installing a seat switch override...
well.. eyes on the road people. let's stay safe.
jbherman
Member
There were no active voice controls in the two cars I rode in at the LA event. I couldn't get much if any response at the event or the Santa Monica store when I asked about these features. That was the only issue that went unanswered for me.
spatterso911
P100DL - Raven
What I did hear while at the LA event was that Tesla is working on a Siri-like voice system, though definitely not the Siri mobile version as has been advertised by other manufacturers. I was told that another provider is offering the system. When asked if I could "Google that provider" I got a knowing grin...
roblab
Active Member
And we can say the same for someone being unfamiliar with the knobs and buttons on conventional cars. Eyes off the road for a second, you have traveled ~100 feet while you search for the tuner or volume or windshield spray or speedo brightness. The best thing would be if we would spend time getting familiar with the interfaces, JUST like you would do in a plane, before driving out, but how many people take off BEFORE they start to adjust the rear view mirror or slide the seat up or back. There will be, as you say, accidents. But I'm not sure we can blame them all on knobs or GUIs.
strider
Active Member
How do you figure? There are still controls (yoke, rudder pedals, etc) that are used to "fly" an airplane in the same way there is a wheel and pedals to "drive" a Model S. The glass cockpit in a plane and the touchscreen in Model S are used for the same things - navigation, communication (radio), operating vehicle systems, etc. The original analogy is valid.
strider
Active Member
What I find fascinating about all of these touchscreen vs physical buttons debates (and we've had SEVERAL of them here on TMC) is that everyone assumes that the touchscreen "buttons" will be the size of a smartphone keyboard. There is no reason for this to be the case. With a 17" panel, the buttons could be huge and in fact EASIER to hit without looking than a physical button. The simple fact of the matter is that a man-machine interface can be good or bad REGARDLESS of the input method. Large buttons on a touchscreen are better than small physical buttons and vice-versa. The touchscreen allows Tesla to craft workflows and make sure only the buttons you need are available and they can be quite large. With physical buttons you cannot change the size and position based on your current needs. For instance, you may only need to change the steering responsiveness once. But if it's a physical button it will be occupying real estate on your console FOREVER which prevents the other buttons that you may use more frequently from being larger and easier to hit without taking your eyes off the road.
I understand some people's frustration. I HATE the iPhone keyboard - I cannot type on it very well. But that's not a problem with the touchscreen interface, it's Apple's implementation of it. For instance, I am able to type quite well on an Android keyboard. So it's not black or white - it's about how Tesla implements the screen.
"glass cockpit" can be used to solely navigate when there is zero visibility can this be accomplished with the Model S touchscreen?
If you are going to go this route a more apt comparison would be the instrument cluster and not the 17inch touch screen. The instrument cluster is far more essential than the 17incher.
Tesla initially had plans for haptic feedback (at some point they must have felt that tactile feedback was important). They also went to such great lengths to implement a robust instrument cluster and possibly voice control. Personally I do not like looking at bright LCD's for prolonged amounts of time, as they give me a headache and I start to get eye floaters. It would be nice to be able to turn off the LCD sometimes and have a few buttons (rather than find the options on the small cluster lcd). Hopefully a third party is able to implement this, it seems relatively straight forward.
PattyChuck
Model S P100D, Model X P90D
I would figure he's talking about an autopilot. I mentioned this in an earlier post, but glass cockpits have two displays, and it seems as though we're trying to mash the utility of those two displays in to one definition. The MFD (Multi-Funciton Display for non-pilots) is more comparable to the 17" touchscreen. The PFD (Primary Flight Display) is more comparable to looking out the windshield. You most certainly do not need an MFD to safely pilot an airplane, even in zero visibility. The same can be said about the 17" touchscreen. The MFD can't fly the plane, but thru the autopilot, the PFD can. There is no such system in the Model S yet (I'm looking at you, Google!).
It's still an apples to somewhat-apples comparison. Flying an airplane does not require you to keep your eyes always looking outside. There are very few pilots flying glass panels that don't engage the autopilot 1,000' off the ground and turn it off at approach minimums. This allows the pilot to pay attention to what s/he is activating on a touch screen. In a car, having hard buttons is most certainly the safer option. Having a few hard buttons with multiple/programable functions is probably even better.
Aren't we getting very hypothetical again? I don't think glancing at the screen for 2 or 3 seconds every few minutes (if even that much) will yield the same eye strain as staring at a computer screen, phone or iPad. I also don't see installing physical switches to emulate actions in Tesla's software being "straightforward". It's not likely to be impossible, but I can't see it being a walk in the park either.
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