I have driven a Model 3 LR through two winters here in and around Ottawa ON and am really pleased with it. I get pretty much the rated range in moderate temperatures and good weather in spring/summer/fall in highway driving if I keep it at 110 kph (about 65 kph) and keep the cruise control on. This is about what Tesla advertises. Higher temperatures or bad weather affect range somewhat, but not a lot. Higher speeds affect range a fair bit, but I have never been a speed enthusiast in any event so that is not a problem for me. Really cold winter temperatures - and especially short trips in really cold temperatures where the battery is repeatedly cooling down and heating back up - affect range a whole lot. But I knew all that in advance and as long as you plan for it, it is ok. I have done road trips in really cold temperatures and it has been fine, with pre-conditioning the car and some planning around when/where I will need to access a Supercharger.
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Picked up my Tesla in early December, worst car I've ever owned.
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Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
Yes, as you noted. The one example posted was about using 1352 Wh in one drive and seems to be purposely exaggerated yet I will give him the benefit of the doubt by not knowing a short distance should be excluded. That drive was literally 2600 feet ! It's a poor data point. I think we all know that the first few minutes of most any drive will use a lot more power. Sure, I can get even as much as 2000 Wh in such a drive if I sit in the driveway with the heater or AC on for a few minutes and then drive 1/2 mile. Well actually, I don't drive my car anywhere 2600 feet. I jut walk
I noted that the 12 mile drive is a better data point, yet 425 WH seems a little above average. Who knows, was that to a higher elevation? Heater / AC on? Really cold battery. Over 1,000 miles on my MX I average around 340 Wh.
They arent, unless they are using a sock puppet account. They have not logged onto TMC in a month.
ODWms
Member
I don’t know about even the upfront costs being higher. The ICE cars that’d be in the runnings for me would be offerings like BMW M3, Mercedes C63, et al. This isn’t a purely financial decision for me, but even at that I’d still be way ahead, with in many cases the PD3 actually being cheaper, as well as the ongoing costs.But obviously the upfront cost is higher, teslas are not exactly cheap (although they are amazingly common now
In that case yea I see. I meant something small. I.e. like a Micra or a fiesta, the ev equilient is quite a bit more. I realise tesla prices are quote comparable to bigger sporty cars (probably says something about the markup on the ice cars
.(moderator note)
Moved posts on "the environment" out of this thread. Anyone wishing to continue that part of the discussion can do so in the new thread I created from these posts, which is in the proper subforum for them (energy, environment and policy):
teslamotorsclub.com
Moved posts on "the environment" out of this thread. Anyone wishing to continue that part of the discussion can do so in the new thread I created from these posts, which is in the proper subforum for them (energy, environment and policy):
Tesla Model 3 vs ICE as it relates to the environment
I'm not saying that an EV or even a PHEV wouldn't work for me. I'm quite sure that I'd be content with doing the daily grind in an EV. But I love to road trip and I'm just not convinced that I want to do that in today's EVs, at least not with the limitations that are so common today. Until I...
teslamotorsclub.com
Those numbers are atrocious! My wh/mile is about 250 on my SR+ (refresh ver with heatpump). Are you sure you're not towing anything? You've not strapped a fridge (something flat fronted) to your roof rack or something?
I was loaned a performance model 3 and was getting 310ish - no heatpump, winter, 70-80mph a lot of the way. But to be averaging 450 is insane!!!
What's killing your efficiency is the short trips with a cold car and cold battery. Your shortest trip is your least efficient. Your next 2 shortest are also the least efficient. If you did a 70 mile drive at 70mph in 60F you might get 300wh/mile. If you get 400wh/mile on that then you've got a hardware problem.
Your say 5minute 1.3mile drive is probably running the heater at full power sending some to the cabin and some to the battery. After about 15-20 minutes (depending on outside temp) the cabin first, then the battery will be warmed and the heater throttling back. Probably before 30 minutes the car will stop heating the battery and occasionally need to heat the cabin - unless you have the window open! The battery will be warmed by just the electric being drawn from it, and occasional regen.
I assume your car definitely has the heatpump? That it wasn't 2nd hand, pre-refresh? I'm sure you can check that from checking the VIN number on the dashboard as anything built in 2021 would have one + service centre would be able to tell on their "system diagnosis screens".
When the line above your "speed" is dotted on the left side your car is telling you it's cold. The longer the dotted bit, the colder it is. I imagine the left quarter of yours is dotted for all these drives! When the car is very cold the car will be running the heater at full plus actively trying to scavenge heat to heat the battery resulting in terrible efficiency for short drives. If you're running the heater while not moving and the car is on that's your wh/mile sky-rocketing. If below freezing the blue frost symbol will be on, the car telling you a message about "range may increase with driving" and on the big battery screen show 10% of the battery covered in blue. That 10% will become available as the battery warms with driving.
Pre-heating the interior of the car should only take about 5minutes even at 10F. Don't pre-heat it more than that. Doing pre-heating for 1 mile drives is a bit of a waste. I'd just keep coat and gloves on, put on heating when in the car and seat heaters on full for that trip.
Charging the car before using it is best - especially if cheaprate electricity coincides. Charging the car is about 93% efficient. So for each 12kWh you add 1kWh is going to heat the battery (and a bit the wires and electronics). Maybe closer to 88-90% in cold. But you're also going to take the battery from say 30F to 37F and not cause the car to worry about how cold the battery is.
Let me add - and others might not agree. But buying the performance over the long-range is not really worth it for most.
In Chicago you're going to spend half the year battling snow/damp roads not able to do any performance acceleration. You're really paying about $10000 more for $1000 more in parts. Breaking it down, the long-range already gives you the same interior, AWD motors, fantastic performance.
On the downside the performance wheels are thinner and more likely to break on pot-holes (less tyre wall to take the impact), and give you slightly worse efficiency. I think you'd have been better with AWD for this reason.
In most driving the performance brakes aren't going to do anything more than the normal brakes. All brakes adjust 200 times a second to prevent lockup. All brakes should be 100% capable of locking brakes. So the only difference is size, and how quickly they heat/cool themselves - and bigger is better. The motor in the performance vs long-range is I think identical. Just software limited by 10% or so in the long-range. And last I heard you can buy a performance boost to the long range to get you to 0.5seconds off the performance acceleration (3.7s vs 3.2 I think). The performance has a spoiler that's a $100 ebay item. I've even been told by the service centre that the ebay spoiler is better and fits the shape of the car better! The Tesla one often doesn't fit well at the edges and isn't stuck down that well!
I bought the SR+ refresh and still leave ICE cars for dead at traffic lights. I've borrowed both the long-range and performance while mine has been in service.
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MaskedRacerX
Member
And just for reference, my two-year Wh/mile average for our car is 291. While that might seem a bit high, keep in mind it includes extended periods in both years of trips between November and March which were almost entirely short-distance trips starting with a cold-soaked battery and which no-doubt significantly upped my average.
White Shadow
Member
(moderator note)
Moved posts on "the environment" out of this thread. Anyone wishing to continue that part of the discussion can do so in the new thread I created from these posts, which is in the proper subforum for them (energy, environment and policy):
Tesla Model 3 vs ICE as it relates to the environment
I'm not saying that an EV or even a PHEV wouldn't work for me. I'm quite sure that I'd be content with doing the daily grind in an EV. But I love to road trip and I'm just not convinced that I want to do that in today's EVs, at least not with the limitations that are so common today. Until I...
Terrific. And now you have some guy thinking that I'm the OP (from this thread) and responding to me in the new thread you created like I'm the one complaining about my Telsa. And that's funny because I've never owned a Tesla. So maybe you should just delete the thread you created since it's just a disaster and the guy is more confused than ever.
That particular poster has a "particular passion" for those topics. There is not a moderation reason to delete it but feel free to ignore that thread if that discussion doesnt interest you. FWIW it doesnt interest me particularly either, and I did not buy an EV "for the environment!" or anything like that.
The choice I had was to leave it here, or move the posts to a more appropriate subforum for that discussion. The posts dont break any forum rules so just deleting them "because" isnt really an option.
Those responses were directed at you in this thread previously, so nothing has changed in that regard.
I agree that op is a bunch of garbage. They were picking data points from feet short trips in the cold. I’m in Alaska and have four winters now in my LR AWD. At temps >0F if the roads are clear and it is sunny. And if you keep the heat set on a reasonable temp, I keep it 62-65F. When it gets below ~ -10F or on fresh lose snow (and in heavy rain) I see the Wh/mi go way up.
I’m at lifetime of 291 Wh/mi with 37k miles going on 4 years. May seem high but I have ~6 months a year when even the highs are below freezing and a good 8 months a year where the lows are below freezing. Also drive the Tesla more October through May then in warmer months.
Here is a trip I made 2 weeks ago: 5F, dry roads, sunny, heat set to 62F. Got rated range.
I’m at lifetime of 291 Wh/mi with 37k miles going on 4 years. May seem high but I have ~6 months a year when even the highs are below freezing and a good 8 months a year where the lows are below freezing. Also drive the Tesla more October through May then in warmer months.
Here is a trip I made 2 weeks ago: 5F, dry roads, sunny, heat set to 62F. Got rated range.
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I still believe the op's data - but if they're sitting running the car de-icing it then they could be getting these high numbers. But I'm not sure they're home charging? They wrote off the car because the supercharger is costing them about the same as gas on their poor wh/mi.
My liftetime (6000 miles in 14 months) is about 230wh/mi on a SR+. But the "lowest" I've seen on the car is about -4C (25F)!
I'd be interested if the battery suffers more from so many cold starts in the medium to long term! 7-15 years. I thought frost does damage lithium batteries a bit.
My biggest problem is that in summer (and this is England!) is that the car interior is at 45C parked in the sun and I leave the windows open to vent and I forget to close them and then it rains and the door trim gets wet, or I just forget and the car is damp from the morning dew in the morning! I wish the app had the opposite of a "vent" mode for "close on rain", or just a simple auto close at 5pm - ie. after the hottest part of the day! I'm sure a clock is running 24/7/365 so it could do this automatically without me remembering.
MaskedRacerX
Member
FYI, you can build all sorts of automations with Tessie. I haven't looked into using a Weather app (but it definitely notifies on weather conditions), but a time based automation is super simple:
Oh, the developer is right here on TMC, they have a thread here:
Vendor - Official Tessie app talk
Danny invited me to join as a TMC vendor. I'm happy to support TMC and anyone that might be using Tessie. The best way to get immediate support is through help.tessie.com and [email protected], but I'll also be around to answer questions here. TMC members get 10% off. Use code TMCFRIENDS at...
teslamotorsclub.com
CertLive
Member
Have you seen the price of electricity lately? Poor challenge. But yes EV;s future is now set in stone if we can only mine its materials green for the packs. But being an early adopter 10+ years after they have been on the roads does not hold water anymore. Simple as other EV manufacturers use factory quality control checks on final product and checks before customer handover.
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