Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Pics/Info: Inside the battery pack

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Hello.
I have an Tesla S85 battery for sale. (Car had only 10 000 km on it)
Please let me know if anyone is interested i doing an similar project as described in this tread.
Use PM.

Tried to send wk057 an PM, but its blocked.

Yeah, the block on my PM access is getting a bit annoying. It'll definitely delay me being able to finish my contest since I wont be able to get the winners' addresses for prizes securely.

Anyway.

As of now I don't think I need another battery pack personally. And if the pack is in Norway that probably doesn't do a whole lot of good for me. Shipping would probably be expensive. I'm sure someone in Norway would be interested in a battery system though given how electric rates work out that way.

Good luck.

- - - Updated - - -

Could this be for faster\cheaper servicing of the pyro fuse in the event that it's cut? Since it's a one time thing there, you'd want to be able to get to it quickly and efficiently from a cost\time perspective if you needed to. Or perhaps, Tesla's engineers have looked at what costs the service centers the most time\money and changed the design to make it faster\cheaper?

Jeff

The Pyro fuse is not in the pack, nor does it break high voltage.

The pyro fuse is inside the HVJB isn't it? I can't remember exactly off hand. It does effectively cut the HV systems though, since it cuts the HVIL.
 
The Pyro fuse is located on the DC primary junction board (large fuses) which is located under the air intake plenum in the frunk. (Under the cabin air filter housing)

Depending on your configuration the 12v battery might be under this board, or under the frunk bucket.

You can follow the wire from the frunk emergency responder cut loop to locate it.

- - - Updated - - -

You guys might be talking about different pyro fuses. The conventional "pyro fuse" might be there, but I think jeffro01 is talking about the updated fuse for the pack that boosts the current limit to 1500A instead of 1300A.
That new "electronic" fuse is supposedly located in the pack. I haven't seen one, so it's unknown how that operates. I assume that it's hooked up to the contactors such that if the electronic circuit "trips" it opens the contactors. Though I suppose it could be a pyrotechnic device. I wouldn't think it would be safe to break a HVDC line without a sizeable gap or in the presence of inert gas or hydrogen like some of the contactors use (yes, Hydrogen!)
 
That new "electronic" fuse is supposedly located in the pack. I haven't seen one, so it's unknown how that operates. I assume that it's hooked up to the contactors such that if the electronic circuit "trips" it opens the contactors. Though I suppose it could be a pyrotechnic device. I wouldn't think it would be safe to break a HVDC line without a sizeable gap or in the presence of inert gas or hydrogen like some of the contactors use (yes, Hydrogen!)
Tesla describes the new fuse like this: "It constantly monitors current at the millisecond level and is pyro-actuated to cut power with extreme precision and certainty."
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/three-dog-day

That is why some people call it a "pyro fuse" although that terminology is already in use for a different fuse.
 
Yeah, the block on my PM access is getting a bit annoying. It'll definitely delay me being able to finish my contest since I wont be able to get the winners' addresses for prizes securely.

Anyway.

As of now I don't think I need another battery pack personally. And if the pack is in Norway that probably doesn't do a whole lot of good for me. Shipping would probably be expensive. I'm sure someone in Norway would be interested in a battery system though given how electric rates work out that way.

Good luck.

- - - Updated - - -





The pyro fuse is inside the HVJB isn't it? I can't remember exactly off hand. It does effectively cut the HV systems though, since it cuts the HVIL.



Anyways.
I am thinking 15 000 dollar for the battery, then I guess about 1000 dollar for the shipping to New Jersey or other east cost town.
Shipping big stuff to and from USA with boat is not a problem at all.

I regularly import stuff from USA, like motorbikes, pallets of solar panels etc.
 
i doubt there is any balancing done during charging since the maximum balancing current is only ~100mA. Based upon the pcb circuits i think balancing could be commanded at any time and at any voltage, as long as there is no charging or discharging loads on the pack.
 
i doubt there is any balancing done during charging since the maximum balancing current is only ~100mA. Based upon the pcb circuits i think balancing could be commanded at any time and at any voltage, as long as there is no charging or discharging loads on the pack.

In testing with a salvage vehicle and pack, the balancing circuits would never enable until the car was at the constant-voltage stage of the charge cycle, around 93+%. Afterwards they would stay on regardless of charge/discharge for some set period of time calculated to bring that particular cell group down to where it needed to be.
 
In testing with a salvage vehicle and pack, the balancing circuits would never enable until the car was at the constant-voltage stage of the charge cycle, around 93+%. Afterwards they would stay on regardless of charge/discharge for some set period of time calculated to bring that particular cell group down to where it needed to be.

Great data point, thanks.
 
Hello wk, I've been following your various battery adventures with gratitude.

I'm only up to page 16 here so stop me if you already know this, but some observations on your BMS PCB.

On your front picture there's a quad-pack IC, and the number on it is legible as 76PL536AQ1. TI is one of the manufacturers of these: BQ76PL536A | Battery Monitor, Protection & Authentication Solutions | Battery Management Products | Description & parametrics
The datasheet is here: http://www.ti.com/lit/gpn/bq76pl536a

It does perform battery management functions, including balancing. And here's the good news if you might someday consider re-rendering your (expensive) solar install: "The bq76PL536A is intended to be used with a host controller to maximize the functionality of the battery management system. However, the protection functions do not require a host controller."

The smallest quad-pack on the front is a microcontroller: Mouser Electronics - Microcontroller

... and I can't get a number off the small TSOP8 but I'll bet it's an EEPROM for the microcontroller's software, given the PROG pin nearby. No idea what the microcontroller might do though; the big chip seems to do most.

I notice also on the board the TSOP16 chip has numbers, but I just can't read them from the picture. This is a mystery chip.

On the back side of the PCB you'll notice that the heavy-duty IC has actually had its numbers sanded off. This is probably a just set of power MOSFETS to shut off power to one set of cells or t'other, but whatever it is, it's controlled by the mystery TSOP16. Looks like it's switching heavy currents in planes internal to the PCB, probably charge current.

Also on the back there is a connector for 'cells 0-6'. This is going to go to 7 stacks of multiple cells, I'm betting 4 pins per stack, for monitoring and balancing.

Then there's the smaller connector for 'TS1-2', + and -. Referring to the main chip's datasheet, these are 2 differential temperature sensor inputs. (probably just thermistors toward one end and the other of the module)

So these BMS boards are daisy-chained together and are eventually connected to the main controller, which I think you'll found as the odd one. The thing that's puzzling though is how they communicate, unless it's somehow connecting to J2. But according to the datasheet there need to be 13 comm lines (SCLK, SDO, SDI, CS_N, CS_S, DRDY_N, DRDY_S, FAULT_N, FAULT_S, ALERT_N, ALERT_S, GND, V), and you need both north and south connected if you're going to daisy-chain. We're 3 pins short. I gotta infer that the 12V system of the car is all that's needed to power the BMS', or else how would they work when the pack is flat?

Hang on a sec... I notice that the microcontroller's P0.2 and P0.3 pins (general I/O pins) go to the big chip's CS_H and SDI_H. So the microcontroller is acting as the big chip's host. I'll bet it connects to the other vital functions too. Probably each BMS PCB has its own address in the EEPROM.

Tracing each PCB land may answer more questions. Maybe you're already way beyond me already, but I'll catch up this weekend.
 
Last edited:
What big IC on the bottom? If you mean J1, that's a connector... Q1 thru Q6 are the sink FETs sinking thru the 158 ohm resistors, or 39.5 ohm in parallel, or roughly 90mA.

The BMS boards are chained together. U4 isolates them, it's a Silabs digital isolator, IIRC

The BMS ICs (bq76PL536A) are capable of being chained to each other via a current sink communication protocol, however that would present a risk as if a module were to experience a short, the IC would be overstressed and could fail. This might cause further damage to the pack electronics or prevent other cells from being balanced properly which would be bad.

I wonder what interface the controller will use to communicate. I reckon it would be possible to reuse these module controllers but you would have to observe the pattern of data from a working pack to understand how to send request messages, presumably it supports things like forcing early cell balancing. I wouldn't be surprised if the main controller handles all the balancing and the module controllers only balance if there is a serious over-voltage problem or some other issue.
 
So it does seem to be labelled J1 and we have to assume it is a connector. But for what? Maybe for incoming current for the module as all are heavy pins, but what specifically, and is so much current shunted out those tiny pins on J3 to the cell stacks? How can that be? The BMS IC is not doing comms with other boards, the microcontroller serves as the Host for the BMS IC and so is its master.

As the microcontroller is the comms gateway, it has two possibilities, SPI and a UART. My money's on them using SPI, which is differential and so is almost immune to noise, plus its a bus architecture, with 4 lines. An EEPROM isn't going to have alot of storage to hold functions, so I doubt comms are encrypted.

Just don't have enough info to get further.
 
The BMS boards do not do any charge shuffling. They do top balancing only by bleeding off excess power in cell groups that are highest to allow other cell groups to charge more.

Why the connector for the communication chain cable is so huge I'm not really certain. Probably just ease of install. There is no real power flowing through those pins at any given time, just enough to power the comm side of the isolation IC on 16 boards.

The microcontroller on the board is definitely an interface chip between the isolated communication bus and the TMS BMS chip, which makes it all the more difficult to reverse engineer since the firmware of this chip is completely unknown.
 
There is a good reason why the pins on J1 are so large. Tne cell stacks have to get charge from somewhere, and I'll bet that is it, although how it gets current to the cell stacks is a mystery.

I wish I had the numbers from the TSOP16 so I could get an idea exactly what it does. And I wish I had an idea of how the BMS boards daisy-chained together. And I wish we had some pics of the one odd BMS board, to try and get an idea of its role.

The microcontroller's software is in the EEPROM. These can be unsoldered and clipped to read from a fairly simple USB reader. Of course it is machine-code, but there are disassemblers.
 
There is a good reason why the pins on J1 are so large. Tne cell stacks have to get charge from somewhere, and I'll bet that is it, although how it gets current to the cell stacks is a mystery.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean, the cells (96 series connected groups of 74 parallel connected cells), are charged via the main power harness they are wired to for also delivering power. Think about it: at a supercharger, there's 300+ amps being delivered to those cell groups... that board connector would evaporate.

No charging of cells takes place by any of the BMS system as far as I know.