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Pictures of Supercharger Construction

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by Cottonwood, Nov 24, 2015.

  1. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    Tesla seems to be trying to guilt TMC Paparazzi into not taking pictures of Supercharger Construction Sites. They seem to be using an approach that I will call the Construction Worker Hostage Program (CWHP). They are having the construction worker tell us TMCers that they the workers will get in trouble with Tesla if we take pictures of the Construction, even if it is from a public location. Given that there is no law or restriction that I know of, concerning taking pictures of people and places in the public view from public locations, guilting us into not taking the pictures so that we won't get the worker in trouble is using the workers like hostages or human shields. That sort of tactic by Tesla is inappropriate at best, and unethical at the worst.

    See Supercharger - Fresno (location confirmed, under construction) - Page 10 and Supercharger - Augusta ME - Page 3 for examples of the message that is getting passed through the construction workers.

    I think that we need to come up with a common message to give to the Construction Workers that they can pass on to Tesla on the subject. Here is a start:

    • Thank you very much for building the Supercharger here. Telsa owners like me very much appreciate the work that you and Tesla are doing to build these sites.
    • We are very interested in how the construction is going and when the site may open.
    • We understand that Tesla has asked you not to give us any information and we would never ask you to do so. We do not want to have our observations reflect on you in any detrimental way.
    • However, this construction is visible from a public location, and I am taking pictures from a public location.
    • No matter what Tesla tells you, neither you nor Tesla have any influence on whether or not I take pictures here.
    • Whether or not I take pictures here is no reflection on the great work that you are doing, and Tesla should understand that this picture taking does not reflect on your work in any way. You should let Tesla know that you spoke to me, but that I am still taking pictures and that you did all that you could.


    Thoughts? Opinions?
     
  2. MikeC

    MikeC Active Member

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    I think maybe it is not that they get in trouble if you take pictures, it's that the pictures expose them to more scrutiny as mentioned in this post:

    I would say that, while respecting the workers' privacy and time, if pictures ensure that the worksite is tidy and clean and prevent other construction deficiencies - isn't that a good thing?
     
  3. AlMc

    AlMc 'Senior Moments' member

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    My thoughts/opinions: excellent uniform statement Cottonwood. Be nice and take as many pictures as you want. Certainly nicest when construction crews not there but it is a relatively 'free country':biggrin:
     
  4. dasRad

    dasRad Member

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    About 10 years ago construction started on a new floating bridge across Okanagan Lake. The bridge links West Kelowna to Kelowna, is about 1km long, and replaced the original floating bridge built back in the 1950s. The provincial government built a website, William R. Bennett Bridge - Home Page, to provide the public with ongoing updates on the construction, including live webcam feeds from the graving dock where the floating bridge sections were built and the actual bridge construction site. I'm sure many other projects have chronicled construction with similar websites.

    If Tesla is concerned about people taking pictures of supercharger construction sites, they could pre-empt those concerns by posting regular updates on the construction. They could even do that on this website. There is clearly significant interest in the construction and Tesla could turn a perceived problem into a marketing tool.
     
  5. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

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    #5 wk057, Nov 24, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
    ^ This......... but it'll never happen.

    Keep in mind that the supercharger installs appear to mostly be done by local electrician outfits. Generally the work these contractors do is pretty thankless and doesn't really draw any public attention, much less people snapping photos and the like. So I can definitely understand it being perceived by some of them to be unusual scrutiny that they wouldn't have had if it were a more generic contract.

    In any case, if they're doing what they're supposed to be doing, then there shouldn't be any issues with photos taken of public areas from public areas. If they are slacking then I could see them being pissed that their employer could be seeing that... but whatever, stop slacking. :p
     
  6. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    Tesla is absolutely PARANOID about their "secrets", they take everything way beyond what any other company does, and it usually comes out as outright hostility against the owners. Tesla really needs to change this, the only reason they get away with it right now is because no other company has caught up to their technology, once another manufacturer does, I can't imagine anyone preferring the company that threatens to sue anyone who posts repair information, refuses to allow 3rd party repair, and never communicates internally, let alone with their customers.
     
  7. Bet TSLA

    Bet TSLA Member

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    You are unfamiliar with a little company called Apple?
     
  8. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    Apple are a horrible company that I'll have nothing to do with, but even they aren't as bad as Tesla.
     
  9. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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  10. Bet TSLA

    Bet TSLA Member

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    Well that certainly explains a lot. Have you any idea what you're talking about?
     
  11. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    Yes, do you?
     
  12. Bet TSLA

    Bet TSLA Member

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    Okay. Please elaborate then. You wrote:

    I don't see how Tesla is particularly any more secretive than the average Silicon Valley gadget company. And it seems far less secretive than most military contractors. So what are you talking about?

    These claims sound either wrong or exaggerated to me. Please point me to something describing Tesla threatening to sue somebody over posting of repair information -- I suspect that if it happened there's more to the story than you are describing. As to 3rd party repair, is there something unusual there? Usually anybody trying to get a gadget repaired by an unauthorized party voids the warranty. Are you alleging something beyond that? As to "never communicates internally" that's something you can't know unless you work there. Do you? I worked at Apple, and I can tell you that internal communication there is almost non-existent at the engineering level -- everything's secret so nobody talks to anybody else about it. Maybe it's better in upper management where people perhaps have more secrets in common. From descriptions I've read of Tesla, it sounds way better than that, but perhaps you have inside information. Or maybe you mean something different.

    In any case, when you describe Tesla as taking "everything way beyond what any other company does" that sounds like pure hyperbole. How can you possibly know? As a guy who has worked at various places in Silicon Valley, it seems pretty typical to me. And nothing like Apple in keeping secrets.

    And finally, as to Apple being a "horrible company that I'll have nothing to do with", I'd say that opinion is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand. Or are you just trying to make it clear that you can't discuss Apple because you know nothing about the company?
     
  13. MikeC

    MikeC Active Member

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    I dunno, I could understand if they had an issue with that. :biggrin:
     
  14. wk057

    wk057 Senior Tinkerer

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    LOL. Oops... fixed. :p
     
  15. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    Many construction sites add a web cam for the interested folks to watch progress. It's the new age!

    If you are doing construction along a public street, the public can watch what you are doing...that's life.
     
  16. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    My point of view is that there is a great deal of overwrought exaggeration in your post which is not supported by the facts. Tesla seems fairly typical in their desire to control product information flow to the public. Allowing 3rd party vehicle repair will come when the company is more mature. Obviously it is factually incorrect to state that Tesla "never communicates internally" or "with their customers".
    Using such extreme exaggeration to make your point only serves to damage your position. Try using factually accurate wording and you will be more likely to persuade those you are trying to communicate with.
    But wait, according to you my opinion has no value since I own Apple products and like them.
     
  17. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    The rest of your post isn't worth responding to, but I'll take this section:
    I never said that people who owned apple products weren't worth listening to, I said that Apple is a horrible company that I won't deal with. The two are in no way related.

    Show me ANY other car manufacturer that threatens lawsuits for revealing repair info, and refuses to sell parts to third parties (or even to their owners). There are documented cases of both of these all over this site. Any other car dealer would have been dragged before the courts for this behaviour long ago. Tesla WILL have to fix this customer hostile behaviour eventually, it's just a matter of time. It would mean a lot more if they did it voluntarily, and not because they get sued and forced to do the right thing.

    I've said it before, if ANY other car maker made a vehicle that could compete with the MS, I would have bought that instead, I love Tesla's products, but as a company, I can't think of a worse car maker to deal with.
     
  18. muleferg

    muleferg Member

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    In my video production days i have been hired to video the construction sites. I remember one job I arrived on the job and noticed 6 or 7 Hispanic. I said ok boys I got a video camera if you are Illegal you better hide. 3 left the scene.
     
  19. Bet TSLA

    Bet TSLA Member

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    You know, repeating nonsense doesn't make it any more true.

    Well, then it shouldn't be difficult for you to point to one you believe is a good example of the problem.

    Have you considered that Tesla's approach to customers is part of why they are able to build a car you love? No, I didn't think so. Tesla behaves like a gadget company, not a car company. If they behaved like a car company you would just get the usual car company products. Try to think about this instead of just complaining.

    And to keep this vaguely on topic, I think Tesla's desire to not have people take pictures and generally talk about the details of supercharger installations is just an extension of their poor communication in general. They want to control the message, but they aren't willing to invest in the people and material necessary to convey that message effectively. It's frustrating, but I can recognize that it's a side-effect of them being wholly invested in superior engineering. That is their choice, and is also part of the reason they can make a great product -- fewer distractions.
     
  20. green1

    green1 Active Member

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    Which is why you should stop claiming that it has never happened when it's all over the forum.

    No, I haven't thought of that, because it makes zero sense, They built a great car because they have great engineering, and none of the usual constraints, that doesn't have anything at all to do with threatening lawsuits, withholding repair info, or refusing to sell parts. These are different issues completely.

    I know you fall in to the Tesla can do no wrong camp, but try to be at least a little objective here.

    I love my car, there's no better car on the road today. But that doesn't blind me to Tesla's mistakes, of which there are many.
     

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