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Discussion in 'Supercharging & Charging Infrastructure' started by SilverSp33d3r, Jun 29, 2019.
What about when we begin seeing V3 cabinets?
V3 are 4:1. And cabinets are twice size of v2, so easy to tell.
Do you have any photos of V3 cabinets?
Here is a photo of a V3 Supercharger posted in a legal document for the Osoyoos, BC Supercharger. Now back to topic
Just to ensure there's no confusion, this isn't a real photo of an actual, existing supercharger station. It's a photographic simulation (i.e. a photoshopped picture) that Tesla put together to show what a station would/might look like. It was submitted as part of their application for city approval of a future supercharger station in a municipal parking lot in Osoyoos, BC.
Looks at the Las Vegas / LINQ High Roller thread. Several photos and even a video tour in that thread.
That is on topic, and is what I didn't yet know. Thank you!
Here's a few from Medicine Hat, Alberta
Took me a while to find the ONE photo in that thread of the V3 cabinet. Here's a direct link to the post: Supercharger - Las Vegas, NV (Las Vegas Strip)
The Medicine Hat photos (linked just above) are much better.
As we start the proper rollout of V3, I wanted to become familiar with the visual differences, so we know what to look for during construction to differentiate V2 vs V3. I see the larger size of the cabinet and the mesh/screen/vented top of the cabinets. Each V3 cabinet supports four pedestals instead of V1/V2's two pedestals, so when we see the conduit routing during construction that should give us an early hint.
I've noticed that the switchgear cabinets are a different shape and size from typical V2 switchgear cabinets. Also, all 8 stall V3 sites have been getting a 1000 kVA transformer instead of a 500 kVA transformer.
The autotransformers, if any, are slightly larger. But, because the difference is so small, that's really not a great differentiator.
That does not seem to line up with what Tesla has on their site, saying there is no power sharing and each cabinet is 1mw.
"V3 is a completely new architecture for Supercharging. A new 1MW power cabinet with a similar design to our utility-scale products supports peak rates of up to 250kW per car."
Introducing V3 Supercharging
So wouldn't an 8-stall V3 site would need a 2000kVA transformer? Does this mean the chargers are "capable" of 250kW per stall, but the actual implementation is less? Perhaps because the utility is not capable of delivering the full power to the site?
And look at this site - no charger cabinets yet, but there are 8 stalls and two V3 cabinets. The transformer is already in place - 500kVA for 8 stalls. That is the same 60kW per stall that a V2 has. Supercharger - Fairfield
Something does not seem to add up.
You're right... it doesn't add up. I'm going by the information from the V3 LINQ Las Vegas site video tour that shows the nameplates on the equipment.
The Fairfield CT Southbound side has 12 superchargers, and a 750kVA transformer.
Perhaps the 1MW is the maximum capacity of the cabinet - perhaps they will deploy them in lower configuration as well. The ones in CT seems to be 1/4 capacity. 60kW per stall, not 250kW.
Actually, the clearest information I've seen is from the Manteca - Spreckles location. It shows 3 V3 cabinets, each fed by 3 phase 700A breakers. That means that each cabinet has a gross rating of 700A * 277V * 3 = 581,700 VA. Applying a 90% efficiency to 4 stalls, you get approximately 130kW average per stall concurrent DC charging. This is pretty conclusive proof that V3 is not capable of charging more than 2 cars at max power (~250kW) at the same time. The other thing to note is that the LV Linq site has a 2500kVA transformer while the 6 V3 cabinets could theoretically pull almost 3500kVA. There is a Powerpack battery system on-site, but I think it only has a 600kW inverter. Short duration utility transformer overload of this magnitude is allowed.
Isn't a continuous load limited to 80% of the circuit size?
Conclusive for that installation. Just like a Wall Connector is capable of 80amps, it is limited to 48amps when installed on a 60amp circuit. Perhaps V3 is capable of 4x250kW - but not all installations will have that. The Fairfield CT ones seem they will have 250kW (or less) per cabinet, since the transformers are 500kW (2 cabinets/8 stalls) and 750kW (3 cabinets/12 stalls).
I don't see any ratings printed on the Fairfield, CT transformers, although I'm limited to the pictures in the thread. It looks like it's larger than 750 kVA but it's hard to tell based on pictures.
You can make out the 500kVA on the Northbound one in the picture I posted earlier. Here is the Southbound one.
The 80% rule applies to residential circuits. I have a feeling that these are not normal thermal breakers. When you get this big, they are probably more like smart breakers that are using current transformers and a microprocessor to monitor the circuit and interrupt it based on more than just a thermal overload. Some of the earlier threads showed the Supercharger V2 breakers and they were remotely resettable, etc.
The definitive information will have to come from the rating label on the outside of a V3 Supercharger cabinet. I have not yet seen a picture of that on TMC.
There will still be a bottleneck, but instead of it being at every pair of stalls, it will be the total site capacity. In reality, how often will an 8-stall site be trying to charge 8x cars capable of 250 kW, and every single one of them will be at the optimal SOC and temperature to receive 250 kW? I would expect Tesla are sizing the grid connection such that someone would never know there is a bottleneck.