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Plaid+ 0-60

Tiger

Active Member
Oct 31, 2016
1,678
1,239
Estonia
I would suggest more, because going from 390 rated miles on the Plaid to 520+ on the Plaid+ means over 33% more range.

I realize some range increase comes from the structural pack, but I would guess you’d need at least 30% more capacity (so likely 130kWh). The weight savings from cell-vehicle integration can only get you so much more range, especially at constant highway speed.


Word on the street is that the LR and Plaid are going with 90kWh so adding 33% to that becomes more or less exactly 120kWh.
 

MarcG

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
3,022
1,972
San Francisco
Word on the street is that the LR and Plaid are going with 90kWh so adding 33% to that becomes more or less exactly 120kWh.

I would be highly surprised if the new packs are only 90kWh, given the increase in range (esp. for Plaid). But let’s wait and see, as all this is just speculation for now.
 

jbcarioca

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2015
5,268
25,662
If I had the extra cash to spend I think it would be worth it for the range alone. The possibility of a quicker charge would be awesome as well ...
I agree completely. I ordered Plaid+ for faster charging, longer range, and the other implications of the structural battery pack and 4680's. I'll never, ever, use the performance. I have never used all the available performance on most cars I have owned. Were it not for the new battery I'd probably have chosen to wait until active noise cancellation etc arrived on a Model Y or Model 3. I have no idea whether I'm the only such gullible person, but a lifetime of early adopter habits makes me think there are a fair number of such people.
 

MarcG

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
3,022
1,972
San Francisco
I agree completely. I ordered Plaid+ for faster charging, longer range, and the other implications of the structural battery pack and 4680's. I'll never, ever, use the performance. I have never used all the available performance on most cars I have owned. Were it not for the new battery I'd probably have chosen to wait until active noise cancellation etc arrived on a Model Y or Model 3. I have no idea whether I'm the only such gullible person, but a lifetime of early adopter habits makes me think there are a fair number of such people.

You might want to wait for the non-Plaid version(s) to get the structural packs with 4680 cells. You’ll get even more range at a much lower price.
 

Ohmster

Lunatic @ Large
Sep 6, 2017
206
598
SoCal
You might want to wait for the non-Plaid version(s) to get the structural packs with 4680 cells. You’ll get even more range at a much lower price.

Thats valid. The question is how long given the constraints on 4680 availability. I’m sure they are slated for CT, Roadster, and Semi in addition to Plaid+.
 

MarcG

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
3,022
1,972
San Francisco
Thats valid. The question is how long given the constraints on 4680 availability. I’m sure they are slated for CT, Roadster, and Semi in addition to Plaid+.

Yeah I guess you never know with Tesla.

Could be a couple months after Plaid+ ships (kind of like when 85D launched shortly after P85D), could be a couple of months.

If I were to guess, what the competition looks like in early-2022 will highly influence their decision.
 
Aug 24, 2016
2,219
1,521
Outside a bubble
I would be highly surprised if the new packs are only 90kWh, given the increase in range (esp. for Plaid). But let’s wait and see, as all this is just speculation for now.
Battery density increase, power train & motor efficiency improvements, drag reduction can easily get it down to 90kWh. Makes sense with battery supply constraints
 
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serendipitous

Member
Sep 10, 2019
351
529
Maryland, USA
I would be highly surprised if the new packs are only 90kWh, given the increase in range (esp. for Plaid). But let’s wait and see, as all this is just speculation for now.

Not many other ways to lose a couple hundred pounds like the refresh did - the car was already aluminum. Shedding some battery modules is by far the most realistic and easy way to do so.
 
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MarcG

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
3,022
1,972
San Francisco
Battery density increase, power train & motor efficiency improvements, drag reduction can easily get it down to 90kWh. Makes sense with battery supply constraints

Maybe, but color me skeptical. They’ve already done lots of powertrain efficiency with the Raven S, which is how they over time achieved 402 miles of range from 335 back in the 100D days.

Battery density increase? The cells are still 18650, so gains are margins. Or did you mean pack-level weight reduction from structural redesign?

Not many other ways to lose a couple hundred pounds like the refresh did - the car was already aluminum. Shedding some battery modules is by far the most realistic and easy way to do so.

True, 10% smaller capacity could mean shedding a few dozen pounds, but I think most of the weight loss is from the redesigned pack architecture that makes it structural (“negative mass”, as Elon would say. Helium, anyone?)
 

serendipitous

Member
Sep 10, 2019
351
529
Maryland, USA
True, 10% smaller capacity could mean shedding a few dozen pounds, but I think most of the weight loss is from the redesigned pack architecture that makes it structural (“negative mass”, as Elon would say. Helium, anyone?)

The refresh Plaid or even LR (the one we're talking about being 90kWh) does not have a structural pack. Same pack architecture, same 18650 cell format, new chemistry. The Plaid+ is the one that is expected to have a structural/4680 based pack. The weight of that one hasn't been released.
 
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MarcG

Active Member
Oct 29, 2014
3,022
1,972
San Francisco
No, cell density increase as announced by Panasonic

Did they announce a percentage of capacity increase? (btw I meant to write "gains are marginal", not "margins".)

The refresh Plaid or even LR (the one we're talking about being 90kWh) does not have a structural pack. Same pack architecture, same 18650 cell format, new chemistry. The Plaid+ is the one that is expected to have a structural/4680 based pack. The weight of that one hasn't been released.

Interesting, do you have a link that confirms that?
I thought it would be part of the new architecture, per the Model S website:

New module and pack thermal architecture allows faster charging and gives you more power and endurance in all conditions
 

galvatron

Member
Mar 15, 2020
120
75
WA
They won't :D
ICE can't compete on performance, but I think the point is not going to be about performance. Even the lamest, standard rear wheel drive Tesla has more performance than what 99% of owners need. And except for the few dedicated performance buyers out there, no one will care much on the 0-60 times or the max speed beyond what any Tesla already has. The main fighting chance that ICE has is still quick and convenient fill ups everywhere and low cost of the car. ICE will die when and only when they can charge up as fast as filling a tank and prices come down to the sub $20K mark like the basic ICE cars.
 
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Merle

Member
Apr 5, 2019
155
126
Tahoe
ICE can't compete on performance, but I think the point is not going to be about performance. Even the lamest, standard rear wheel drive Tesla has more performance than what 99% of owners need. And except for the few dedicated performance buyers out there, no one will care much on the 0-60 times or the max speed beyond what any Tesla already has. The main fighting chance that ICE has is still quick and convenient fill ups everywhere and low cost of the car. ICE will die when and only when they can charge up as fast as filling a tank and prices come down to the sub $20K mark like the basic ICE cars.

This ^^^

Range is what kills me now in terms of time lost on a weekly basis. Range is what affects me thinking about a long road trip to Vegas or Clearwater. Range can be countered by rate of charge (at home over night at 40A or on the road at 250 miles an hour) but it's range.

For example, driving to the beach (Clearwater)
  • $400 for commercial round trip to FL ... one day flight for two people. No car at destination and tied to their schedule.
  • 190 gallons of avgas to fly to FL. 13 hours on my schedule, but no car at destination.
  • 54 hours to drive, including +10 hours of driving via ABRP. My schedule and I have a car at the destination
I can only drive so fast on US 50 before the CHP takes a picture of me and puts it on their Instagram feed. Further east ... the NHP care less but do care. If I can reduce the cost / time to go from A - B, that's a win in my book. But a "quicker" or "faster" car isn't going to help if I'm stopping for an hour to charge my car.
 

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