Plaid 21” rear tire woes - factory defect?

[Awiner]

I’m having the N2itive adjustable rear camber arms installed this week by a racing shop. Other than making sure the shop knows to put the car in Very High then Jack Mode before lifting, correct placement of lift points under the frame, and then making sure they set the suspension to Low before adjusting the camber; anything else I need to make sure this shop knows about when installing the arms? I have already sent them the instructions from N2itive.

If they have the instructions then they will know the torque values for the bolts when installing and adjusting the new arms.

If they need to remove the front or rear aero panels to achieve the install (rear) or alignment, make sure they use a drop of Loctite 222 (purple / low strength) on each bolt they remove upon reinstall.

Everything else you posted is correct. Looks good.

 

[emailforbrett]

For anyone in the Orlando area looking for a shop to install the rear camber arms and do the alignment, I can recommend Ostar Motorsports. $550 for the install and alignment. I’ll let you know in 15,000 miles from now if my rear tires hold up better.

 

[Awiner]

For anyone in the Orlando area looking for a shop to install the rear camber arms and do the alignment, I can recommend Ostar Motorsports. $550 for the install and alignment. I’ll let you know in 15,000 miles from now if my rear tires hold up better.

Now that we’ve seen your before numbers tell me what tires did you see excessive wear on ?

 

[emailforbrett]

Driver Rear.

 

[DayTrippin]

Is there a TL;DR version of this thread?

 

[Awiner]

Driver Rear.

I’d expect your passenger rear would be wearing the same or worse.

Was this measured in the LOW setting ?

 

[emailforbrett]

Oddly no! No wear at all! I was dumbfounded, too. Only thing that leads me to believe this isn’t camber/toe related. To rule it out, it was worth the $1,500 for the adjustable arms and alignment.

…and YES, LOW setting

 

[emailforbrett]

Is there a TL;DR version of this thread?

The gist:

Anywhere from 5,000-15,000 miles you will develop a slow leak that progressively worsens over about a week’s timeframe in your rear driver/passenger tire. After about a week, the tire will totally fail at the tread-sidewall seam.

The cause is:

Improper camber and/or toe and Tesla installs fixed camber arms on the rear wheels.

Under/over inflation

Faulty Michelin Tires

Heavy car on tires meant for a lighter and less powerful car


Did I miss anything from the Tesla Motors Club Engineering Department?

 

[Russell]

The gist:

Anywhere from 5,000-15,000 miles you will develop a slow leak that progressively worsens over about a week’s timeframe in your rear driver/passenger tire. After about a week, the tire will totally fail at the tread-sidewall seam.

The cause is:

Improper camber and/or toe and Tesla installs fixed camber arms on the rear wheels.

Under/over inflation

Faulty Michelin Tires

Heavy car on tires meant for a lighter and less powerful car


Did I miss anything from the Tesla Motors Club Engineering Department?

Primarily it's the limited camber settings. Data from owners switching to adjustable arms have proved it.


If owners don't install adjustable arms, they should visually inspect the tires on a regular basis because some have had blowouts without the slow leaks.

 

[DayTrippin]

Thanks! We should put the synopsis at the beginning and save a lot of reading. So does Tesla have the appropriate camber arms required or are we SOL unless we go with aftermarket?

I am concerned about going aftermarket since how finicky Tesla is if you change anything from stock. Also if mine is lowered at all, the high setting likely won't allow me to clear the big dips in the roads here that I can only navigate on the highest setting and very slowly so the nose doesn't hit.

 

[Awiner]

Thanks! We should put the synopsis at the beginning and save a lot of reading. So does Tesla have the appropriate camber arms required or are we SOL unless we go with aftermarket?

I am concerned about going aftermarket since how finicky Tesla is if you change anything from stock. Also if mine is lowered at all, the high setting likely won't allow me to clear the big dips in the roads here that I can only navigate on the highest setting and very slowly so the nose doesn't hit.

Aftermarket only.

 

[emailforbrett]

I didn’t lower mine. That isn’t for the sidewall issue. People are lowering for the 43mph shimmy. I have that, as well, but it’s not bad enough to get my car lowered.

The aftermarket fix for the sidewall separation issue is made by a few manufacturers of adjustable camber arms. I went with the most popular, N2itive. $1,500 installed and aligned.

NEW! N2itive SX-P2 Adjustable Camber Arms - Fixes Tesla X/S Crazy Rear Tire Wear!

LIFETIME WARRANTY - See Why N2itive's Forged Adjustable Rear Camber Arms For Tesla Model S/X PLAID Are The Best For Your Tesla. Weather Sealed, Silent Spherical Bushings

n2itive.me

 

[Awiner]

For anyone in the Orlando area looking for a shop to install the rear camber arms and do the alignment, I can recommend Ostar Motorsports. $550 for the install and alignment. I’ll let you know in 15,000 miles from now if my rear tires hold up better.

As a point of clarification, the alignment printout shown doesn’t accurately represent in picture (diagram) what the toe angle in reality represents.

As you see on your right rear wheel where the toe was at +0.45 degrees initially, the photo shows the wheel pointing outwards. In actuality the wheel when toe is positive would point inwards.

Negative toe, or toe out, is the front of the wheel pointing away from the centreline of the vehicle. Positive toe, or toe in, is the front of the wheel pointing towards the centreline of the vehicle.

 

[emailforbrett]

I didn’t pay much attention to the little pics. My eyes aren’t good enough to discern the subtle angles. I like the numerical values in the After results.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

The gist:

Anywhere from 5,000-15,000 miles you will develop a slow leak that progressively worsens over about a week’s timeframe in your rear driver/passenger tire. After about a week, the tire will totally fail at the tread-sidewall seam.

The cause is:

Improper camber and/or toe and Tesla installs fixed camber arms on the rear wheels.

Under/over inflation

Faulty Michelin Tires

Heavy car on tires meant for a lighter and less powerful car


Did I miss anything from the Tesla Motors Club Engineering Department?

Couple of errors:

You wrote:

Anywhere from 5,000-15,000 miles you will develop a slow leak that progressively worsens over about a week’s timeframe in your rear driver/passenger tire. After about a week, the tire will totally fail at the tread-sidewall seam.

I'd suggest that you should have written:

Anywhere from 5,000-15,000 miles you MAY develop a slow leak that progressively worsens over A PERIOD OF WEEKS OR MONTHS timeframe in ONE OR BOTH OF YOUR REAR TIRES. After AN INDETERMINATE PERIOD, THE TIRES MAY totally fail at the tread-sidewall seam, which may occur without any previous pressure loss (although that appears to be the vast minority of these cases).

Also:

For now, the best course of action with the OEM 21" Michelin OEM tire used on the refresh Model S is to:

1. Inspect the inside sidewall/tread area regularly (at least every few hundred miles) as the separation may occur in an area that is perhaps at the top of the tire, hidden in the wheel well.

2. Immediately report any defects, such any lathing or wear at that area, unexplained pressure loss, etc. to Michelin via their Customer Support website or phone number:

Contact us form

Enjoy peace of mind throughout the life of your tires when you shop car tires, truck tires & SUV tires online with Michelin today! Find a location!

www.michelinman.com

3. Recommend also doing so at the NHTSA website as well for maximum visibility on this safety defect:

Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA

File a complaint with NHTSA if you experienced a vehicle, tire, car seat or equipment safety problem that could be a safety defect.

www.nhtsa.gov

4. Also file a claim for warranty replacement of your tire(s) promptly due to limited supplies of these tires and long delays in replacement arrivals. (FYI: Discount Tire is usually very familiar and quite good at this.)

 

[emailforbrett]

I love it! That’s even funnier than my sarcasm-laced post! I’m usually the one who tends to be slow at recognizing the hints of sarcasm in these forums.

All very true, however. Especially the tidbits about NHTSA reporting and warranty claims. I did both.

 

[signalbobby]

Couple of errors:

You wrote:

Anywhere from 5,000-15,000 miles you will develop a slow leak that progressively worsens over about a week’s timeframe in your rear driver/passenger tire. After about a week, the tire will totally fail at the tread-sidewall seam.

I'd suggest that you should have written:

Anywhere from 5,000-15,000 miles you MAY develop a slow leak that progressively worsens over A PERIOD OF WEEKS OR MONTHS timeframe in ONE OR BOTH OF YOUR REAR TIRES. After AN INDETERMINATE PERIOD, THE TIRES MAY totally fail at the tread-sidewall seam, which may occur without any previous pressure loss (although that appears to be the vast minority of these cases).

Also:

For now, the best course of action with the OEM 21" Michelin OEM tire used on the refresh Model S is to:

1. Inspect the inside sidewall/tread area regularly (at least every few hundred miles) as the separation may occur in an area that is perhaps at the top of the tire, hidden in the wheel well.

2. Immediately report any defects, such any lathing or wear at that area, unexplained pressure loss, etc. to Michelin via their Customer Support website or phone number:

Contact us form

Enjoy peace of mind throughout the life of your tires when you shop car tires, truck tires & SUV tires online with Michelin today! Find a location!

www.michelinman.com

3. Recommend also doing so at the NHTSA website as well for maximum visibility on this safety defect:

Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA

File a complaint with NHTSA if you experienced a vehicle, tire, car seat or equipment safety problem that could be a safety defect.

www.nhtsa.gov

4. Also file a claim for warranty replacement of your tire(s) promptly due to limited supplies of these tires and long delays in replacement arrivals. (FYI: Discount Tire is usually very familiar and quite good at this.)

Should i file a claim with Michelin prior or post total failure? My rears keep losing pressure slowly. Its not worn all the way down but its getting close.

 

[signalbobby]

I love it! That’s even funnier than my sarcasm-laced post! I’m usually the one who tends to be slow at recognizing the hints of sarcasm in these forums.

All very true, however. Especially the tidbits about NHTSA reporting and warranty claims. I did both.

After you installed your rear arms, do you have enough miles to notice more even wear?

 

[emailforbrett]

I don’t think you can file the claim until you replace the tires. Michelin had to speak to the tech who replaced my tire for measurements that he had to take.

I just put the arms on yesterday. Gonna be over a year from now before I know if they made a difference.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Should i file a claim with Michelin prior or post total failure? My rears keep losing pressure slowly. Its not worn all the way down but its getting close.

YES, prior to failure. You don't want to be around for the actual failure as it'll likely occur on a dark and stormy night, on the freeway, and then you'll get to try out the airbags if you're not a skilled driver capable of controlling a car during a high-speed tire failure, perhaps even on a curve--how exciting!

The consistent air loss should be all you need for the claim, and if your new tires come in time, have them "dunk tank" the old tires at 50 psi (or more) to mark the leak points with a chalk stick. Keep the tires if needed for the warranty inspection; Michelin may well want them back . . . ask them.