Plaid 21” rear tire woes - factory defect?

[Hayseed_MS]

Yeah, I’m debating between the Pzero winters or the EV all season Contis for my winter set. Probably leaning towards the all seasons because our winters aren’t as aggressive as the Northeast

These PZero Winters are the Tesla marked ones and have been phenomenal. Approx. 15k miles - from -10 ~ + 75F. Noise is still very low. Commfy ride. Would leave them on all year round but not good in the warm weather. Even if I go all season (instead of back to summer) tire for this summer, I will still use these next winter.

Tire rack shows the 21" OEM sizes in an EV marked Conti. Probably better than the Goodyear Tesla marked all seasons.

 

[Sam1]

I don't think its an alignment issue. It's a tire structural failure IMHO. I had my NEW rear Michelins T2 aligned, in LOW setting, per the pics. I went to drag races and ten days later boom, one of them was destroyed just like all the other ones here. My theory is the tire structure begins to break from the torque of launching on the inner seam at the sidewall. Once it starts to break, it gets worse faster.

View attachment 918366View attachment 918367

You know with the factory toe arms, the bushings flex out a lot, right? It's so much that you can see it in the side camera videos sometimes.

I swapped to the UP ones and have zero flex now. We're putting 300-400hp/tq to each one of those bushings. That's a massive amount.

 

[PR0FESSOR]

I recently ordered an MSP and have reviewed this thread... great information. I am surprised that there are not more (non-tire) related failures associated with the amount of horsepower and torque available on the MSP.

Joe

 

[n2mb_racing]

I recently ordered an MSP and have reviewed this thread... great information. I am surprised that there are not more (non-tire) related failures associated with the amount of horsepower and torque available on the MSP.

Joe

Well, the wheel torque on the Plaid is actually slightly lower than the previous generation of the Model S. What has increased is horsepower.

 

[cmarshack]

Well, the wheel torque on the Plaid is actually slightly lower than the previous generation of the Model S. What has increased is horsepower.

Can you please explain? I believe the the 2020 MSP was around 840 lb-ft or torque and the Plaid puts down 1050 lb-ft. how is the plaid lower torque than the 2020 Performance?

 

[Sam1]

Can you please explain? I believe the the 2020 MSP was around 840 lb-ft or torque and the Plaid puts down 1050 lb-ft. how is the plaid lower torque than the 2020 Performance?

Was about to ask the same thing, because it's significantly higher now, and it holds those higher levels for a much longer RPM range.

 

[Muzzman1]

Well, the wheel torque on the Plaid is actually slightly lower than the previous generation of the Model S. What has increased is horsepower.

Torque wins races, horsepower sells cars.
You are misinformed as stated in the posts above, the Plaid makes significantly more torque than any Tesla to date.

 

[n2mb_racing]

Torque wins races, horsepower sells cars.
You are misinformed as stated in the posts above, the Plaid makes significantly more torque than any Tesla to date.

Take a look at Tesla's slide:

https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/jzQog/s1/tesla-model-s-plaid-delivery-day-perfect-power-curve.jpg

The 2019 Performance has more HP than the Plaid below 35 mph. HP = Torque * RPM, so the plaid has slightly less wheel torque. However, the Plaid maintains that torque until well over 60 mph, and then holds nearly constant power to 200 mph.

The gearing is slightly taller on the Plaid, so that it can have that absurd top speed.

I'd bet the 2019 Performance is slightly faster to 35 mph, but it is meaningless since the car gets to 35 mph so fast.

 

[SucreTease]

Take a look at Tesla's slide:

https://cdn.motor1.com/images/mgl/jzQog/s1/tesla-model-s-plaid-delivery-day-perfect-power-curve.jpg

The 2019 Performance has more HP than the Plaid below 35 mph. HP = Torque * RPM, so the plaid has slightly less wheel torque. However, the Plaid maintains that torque until well over 60 mph, and then holds nearly constant power to 200 mph.

The gearing is slightly taller on the Plaid, so that it can have that absurd top speed.

I'd bet the 2019 Performance is slightly faster to 35 mph, but it is meaningless since the car gets to 35 mph so fast.

This graph shows how much horsepower is being expended (put out) vs. speed, not how much horsepower the car has at a given speed. The horsepower doesn't determine acceleration—torque does. Horsepower determines the maximum speed you can attain (at which point it's power output equals that of the various sources of friction consuming power), whereas torque determines how fast you can get to that speed.

One interpretation of this graph is that the Model S Plaid can go slightly faster at a given level of horsepower output than the Model S Performance; or, conversely, that the Plaid uses less horsepower to go a given speed (i.e. improved efficiency due to reduced friction losses).

 

[Sam1]

One interpretation of this graph is that the Model S Plaid can go slightly faster at a given level of horsepower output than the Model S Performance; or, conversely, that the Plaid uses less horsepower to go a given speed (i.e. improved efficiency due to reduced friction losses).

This is very likely considering they claim the efficiency of the new motors has been increased (and munro talks about this during his teardown videos).

 

[cmarshack]

This is the kit you need... Less camber.. Easy to install. If you toe was good before you will not need to have it realigned. The kit reduces camber and keeps toe with the same adjustment. If you do have toe issues that's easy to get tweaked after install too. MACSBOOST Tesla S X Camber Kit 2021+ Palladium

Has anyone ordered this kit on the forum yet? I would love to see real world before and after with this kit.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

I likely will still be difficult to confirm where it's rubbing even if you put the car up on a lift and rotate the wheels. You won't have the weight of the car loading up the rear suspension, so missing the normal deflection in the suspension. Without that running deflection you likely may not see it rub. I would think you should be able to see some signs of where the rub is on the underside components, but you likely will not see the actual contact happening.

What about disconnecting the battery and then removing the air hose connection to the air spring so you can jack up the suspension to check for rubbing? Maybe jack mode would negate the need to disconnect the battery.

 

[Sam1]

Has anyone ordered this kit on the forum yet? I would love to see real world before and after with this kit.

It's just a shim kit, would work fine. not sure what all the different shims it comes with, but if it's a kit with various ones, you should even be able to even out the camber between left and right without messing with the subframe.

 

[supermac]

Uneven camber is most often a result of uneven ride height. Check out our blog here. Check your heights on an even surface. Tesla S & X Alignment Woes or WOAHS

 

[cmarshack]

This is the kit you need... Less camber.. Easy to install. If you toe was good before you will not need to have it realigned. The kit reduces camber and keeps toe with the same adjustment. If you do have toe issues that's easy to get tweaked after install too. MACSBOOST Tesla S X Camber Kit 2021+ Palladium

Can you tell us how many different shims come in the Camber Kit? It is just one size meant to dial out a set % of camber or is it a set of whims that can be used to dial in the exact camber the user wants?

 

[Awiner]

Can you tell us how many different shims come in the Camber Kit? It is just one size meant to dial out a set % of camber or is it a set of whims that can be used to dial in the exact camber the user wants?

I believe it’s one stainless “shim” that adjusts out .8 degrees of negative camber.

 

[Sam1]

I believe it’s one stainless “shim” that adjusts out .8 degrees of negative camber.

That's no bueno then, because if your car doesn't have identical camber from side to side, it's still going to be off unless the alignment shop shifts your subframe.

They should include multiple shims with various thickness.

 

[Awiner]

That's no bueno then, because if your car doesn't have perfect camber, it's still going to be off unless the alignment shop shifts your subframe.

They should include multiple shims with various thickness.

Exactly why there really is no better overall solution than adjustable arms. Of course they come with added expense.

There is a tuner in Florida that posted on the Plaid Facebook groups about shims that can be stacked. I think they were $2.00 each. Again not as good as an adjustable arm but options are good to have.

 

[supermac]

Can you tell us how many different shims come in the Camber Kit? It is just one size meant to dial out a set % of camber or is it a set of whims that can be used to dial in the exact camber the user wants?

These are custom machined specifically for the palladium suspension. This keeps things simple. Symmetric, Easy to install. No need for a realignment after if your toe was good to begin with. You get the camber you should have had from the beginning. Better grip, better tire wear. It's a no brainer and they easily pay for themselves quickly. FWIW Camber asymmetry is usually a function of roll and height calibration. Adjusting arms to compensate is treating a symptom and not the problem.

 

[brooklyn]

So I have the N2itive parts sitting at home waiting to make an appointment with the SC. I've held off on scheduling the appointment (plus getting my Signature wheels mounted) because I'm already experiencing the vibration and figured I should probably have it documented with the SC before I give them a reason to blame aftermarket parts. Is that an unfounded fear at this point? I have an appointment set for Monday to look at that and install the round steering wheel, but my concern is that appointment may get bumped (again) due to the wheel apparently not being stocked in inventory and still not being delivered despite me ordering the thing the day they went live in the store. I'd like to fix this before I kill my tires any more than they already probably are given I only have about 3k miles on the car at this point.