Well it looks like the range on the Model S refresh has been reduced to 375 miles for the LR and 350 for plaid. This is a pretty big change from 412 and 390.
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Plaid+ CANCELLED
- Thread starter Alset Srotom
- Start date
That only appears to be the case with the 21" Arachnid wheels. No change on the 19" Tempest.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Yes, Tesla got the lawyers covering their claims, and yes, shame on customers like me for not knowing that the spec below in the Tesla Design Studio (ordering page) meant that S60 and S85D motor power was reachable while P85D would have required a 50% power boots to reach that number. In retrospect, it's absolutely clear, but only after buying stuff from Tesla and knowing that they will lawyer every claim to deliver the absolute least they can get away with.
I'm sure they can legally defend the EPA rating too, even if almost nobody ever reaches it. I also doubt Tesla re-certifies their cars with every single software update they push out too, so they could be pulling a VW there too, make the car less powerful for the test, more powerful (or stronger heater or A/C) later with newer software. I'm sure, much like the horsepower argument, their lawyers would be able to defend it in most courts (perhaps not in Norway, which I never said was in the EU btw - oh, and they just lost another lawsuit there over the 85KWh claim and later further nerfing of the batteries, $16K per car IIRC).
I've owned 4 Model S, never managed to get the rated range, ever, not even when I tried driving calmly under the speed limit for a few days - I even tracked rated range with a go-pro, watched it go down, and it didn't agree with the energy consumption the car showed, there was some 700-1000W draw not accounted for, my best guess HVAC system or MCU (I did this on a 2013 Model S).
So yes, I agree with you that Tesla cars are absolutely capable of the EPA rated range, in some narrow scenario, perhaps with a specific software version. Just like all 2016+ Tesla's are Full Self Driving (autonomy level 5 as advertised between 2016-2019) capable (which doesn't mean they will ever actually self drive, just capable if they had better software, better sensors, etc).
EDIT: Tesla still does the acceleration shady advertising they did since P85D, this video explains why it's misleading. Also note, even the asterisk that video talks about regarding rollout was not present anywhere at the time P85D was being sold, that was also added after some lawsuit as well. Car salesmanship at the next level I tell you.
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Lucid Air car is going to cut into Tesla.
400 miles range 480 HP $77k.... styling is decent, interior is lacking IMO...no large screen computer screen is a turn off.
While I dont see this as any better, some might. I think any competition is good....Tesla is way too complacent....they need a kick in the balls.
400 miles range 480 HP $77k.... styling is decent, interior is lacking IMO...no large screen computer screen is a turn off.
While I dont see this as any better, some might. I think any competition is good....Tesla is way too complacent....they need a kick in the balls.
MichaelP90DL
Active Member
I hope so. I'll hang on to White Fang (2020 Raven Performance) and wait to see what happens.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I didn't say you said Norway was in the EU, just mentioned that, given the EU motor power certificates Tesla uses for their defense may not necessarily be applicable to Norway, given they aren't in the EU (even though they still follow a lot of EU standards regardless).
And on this subject, just to be complete, I dug up if there is any change in how Ram rates their diesel truck horsepower 6 years later. I found no change. For example the 2021 RAM chassis cabs that are rated at 360 hp (and 800 lb ft of torque):
2021 Ram Chassis Cab | Horsepower, Available Engines & More
This Engine was introduced in 2019 it seems:
6.7L Cummins Turbo Diesel (2019) for Chassis Cab | Cummins Inc.
You can find in the CARB filings both the hp and torque figures were also done under "SAE gross" (see third page):
https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/defaul.../2019/cummins_mhdd_a0210689_6d7_0d20-0d01.pdf
On this subject of EPA rated range, in my own 2021 Model 3 SR+, it's trivial to achieve EPA rated range (even the combined rating, much less the highway one). I just drive a mixed cycle (a mix of slower local roads with a little bit of highway). When I drive on the highway more, especially if it's uphill, then I'll get lower.
It's the people that try to drive on road trips that consist mainly or almost all high speed highway usage that fail to achieve it, but it's just common sense they likely won't, given the EPA cycle is at much lower average speeds. There's also the factor of battery degradation (which drops range a couple percentage every year), but that's a different subject.
You can find the EPA test cycles here:
Dynamometer Drive Schedules | US EPA
The Porsche Taycan is really the major outlier that gets a lot more range on high speed (the others that get more only tend to get within about 10% more, not like 30+%), but that may have to do with its two speed transmission (that's the only major difference I can think of that makes it special).
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you can have both, but you do not need both. You do however need the 25K ev. Guess which one you don’t need?
By that logic, the Plaid shouldn't exist at all. Nobody NEEDS to go 0-60 in under 2 seconds. We're at the point where you're playing games with semantics. You clearly view all EV owners through your own personal lens and refuse to consider that perhaps different people have different criteria when picking a car. All good. You can have your $25k car with 200 miles of range and i'll hold out hope of one day being able to throw enough money at a company that I can have an EV with 500 miles of range.
sillydriver
Member
Well, i mean, that is all true. You do have to make the new sone thing cool though, so that early adopters have a reason to switch.
And one update to the range debate:
NAF EV Range Test
The Norwegian Automotive Federation did a 21-car test of EV range. They compared their measurements to the European WLTP rating.
The only Tesla being tested (2021 Model 3 LR) exceeded its rating by 6.7% (654.9 km tested, 614 km rated) in summer driving conditions.
Th Mustang Mach-E LR AWD also beat its rating but only by 2.2% (551.9 tested, 540 rated).
Overall the Tesla was the car with the longest range, and only the RWD version of the Mach-E LR could come close (617.9 tested, 610 rated).
NAF EV Range Test
The Norwegian Automotive Federation did a 21-car test of EV range. They compared their measurements to the European WLTP rating.
The only Tesla being tested (2021 Model 3 LR) exceeded its rating by 6.7% (654.9 km tested, 614 km rated) in summer driving conditions.
Th Mustang Mach-E LR AWD also beat its rating but only by 2.2% (551.9 tested, 540 rated).
Overall the Tesla was the car with the longest range, and only the RWD version of the Mach-E LR could come close (617.9 tested, 610 rated).
sillydriver
Member
On the range discussion, real range is neither the EPA nor the more liberal European standard. Range is what you get at the worse end of the weather conditions for your particular situation. This is a non-issue in, for example, CA, and not a big deal where I currently live in VA, but I'm thinking of moving back to New England, so range will be the miles I can get on the interstate in winter with slush on the road. These conditions occur multiple times each winter, and the fact that the range in nice weather in summer is much longer is completely irrelevant for judging whether the range of the EV you are going to buy is adequate: that is, unless you want to be standing on the side of a road in a snow storm, or diverting to make extra trips to charging stations. The plaid+ would have solved this problem for me, but without it, the choice of an EV (or whether I can even use an EV) is completely up in the air.
URBAN LEGEND
Doing it well
Plaid+ is canceled. Range anxiety isn’t.
URBAN LEGEND
Doing it well
The price of the Model S Plaid just went up $10k to $130k. I wonder if people switching from a Plaid+ to a Plaid now will pay the new or old price.
Note: The Model X Plaid is still $120k.
Note: The Model X Plaid is still $120k.
I'll cross my fingers and hope it has the Plaid+ range for $20k less...but not holding my breath.
