Plaid front wheels break traction in tight turn into garage

[Ultimate Plaid]

My 2022 Plaid slips the outside front wheels on tight turns at low speeds (1-15 MPH). The same thing happens when reversing in the same direction. As a result, there is a clear tire prints into the garage. Any other Plaid or newer Model S owners having the same experience?

My suspicion is that this is normal and has something to do with the 4 wheel drive and a performance differential in the front wheels. Seems to waste power and pre-maturely wear tires.

Inputs are appreciated.

Ultimate

 

[Mash]

Seems like due to the floor curvature you offloading that wheel for a moment (or there's a slippery spot). Also, since it's a tight turn outside wheel - it gets much less resistance, so it's asking for getting too excess torque from the diff. Eventually brakes are catching it, but it's that much you can do with front open differential. Normal. 4 motors don't do that, since no diff.

 

[Ultimate Plaid]

Hi Mash, Thanks for the reply. I am literally crawling into and out of the garage. No speed at all. Concrete driveway largely level. Happens when pulling into the garage and when I reverse out of the garage. Also happens also when going uphill and doing a hard left turn at about 10 MPH on asphault. Tires still slip. Is this normal? Seems strange to me.

 

[WilliamG]

If you’re on 21” summers and it’s cooler out, this is normal behavior.

 

[Mash]

Hi Mash, Thanks for the reply. I am literally crawling into and out of the garage. No speed at all. Concrete driveway largely level. Happens when pulling into the garage and when I reverse out of the garage. Also happens also when going uphill and doing a hard left turn at about 10 MPH on asphault. Tires still slip. Is this normal? Seems strange to me.

I can't possibly think what can be wrong. Open diff is a very simple thing - if it breaks it acts way worse than that. Speed is irrelevant here. So I would say it's normal and not a big deal.

 

[sephiroth529]

Mine does the same thing, every morning I back up and turn out of my garage. Seems worse now that it’s cold

 

[Ultimate Plaid]

Mine Plaid has 5000 miles on it. I wonder if this goes away after they break in the front differential.

 

[WilliamG]

Mine Plaid has 5000 miles on it. I wonder if this goes away after they break in the front differential.

Nope. There’s several threads on this, e.g….

Plaid jumps and undeersteers when sharp turning at 3MPH

Hi all, Upon receiving my Model S Plaid, I noticed during sharp turns, the front wheels will hop (jump) and car will move forward, as if the car is understeering. This happens consistently at 3 mph and above. To reproduce this: 1. Rotate steering to max angle, say counter clockwise to the left...

teslamotorsclub.com

Put winter tires on in the winter and it goes away. That’s what I did.

 

[Tman458]

Ackerman effect

 

[Hayseed_MS]

Normal

 

[thesmokingman]

Ackerman effect

Here's a video for explanation.

 

[BDBake]

My 2022 Plaid slips the outside front wheels on tight turns at low speeds (1-15 MPH). The same thing happens when reversing in the same direction. As a result, there is a clear tire prints into the garage. Any other Plaid or newer Model S owners having the same experience?

My suspicion is that this is normal and has something to do with the 4 wheel drive and a performance differential in the front wheels. Seems to waste power and pre-maturely wear tires.

Inputs are appreciated.

Ultimate

My 2022 Plaid does it, too, exactly as you describe at high turn angles, seemingly worse in reverse. Also happens on slippery surfaces, and driving around traffic revisions and u-turns. It's really jarring, and clearly is putting high loads through the steering and suspension, and maybe the drive train, too. I cringe when I make a turn that I know is going to do it.

I don't think it's the 4WD; I think it's something inherent to the steering/suspension geometry dragging the tire sideways from the wheel's motion at high turn angle.

The Tesla Service Center gives me BS excuse that it's the tires. They say it is better when it's warm out or the tires are warm, which is total BS. Just because the tires may scrub less when warm, the same sideways dragging is happening, but the high loads are just being absorbed by the tire and steering instead of breaking traction.

It totally pisses me off. I didn't drop well over 100K on an SUV to endure such continual jarring. It's horrible. I've driven mamy many AWD, 4WD, FWD vehicles in my life and never experienced anything like this. This is a design flaw with the steering/suspension, I believe.

 

[WilliamG]

My 2022 Plaid does it, too, exactly as you describe at high turn angles, seemingly worse in reverse. Also happens on slippery surfaces, and driving around traffic revisions and u-turns. It's really jarring, and clearly is putting high loads through the steering and suspension, and maybe the drive train, too. I cringe when I make a turn that I know is going to do it.

I don't think it's the 4WD; I think it's something inherent to the steering/suspension geometry dragging the tire sideways from the wheel's motion at high turn angle.

The Tesla Service Center gives me BS excuse that it's the tires. They say it is better when it's warm out or the tires are warm, which is total BS. Just because the tires may scrub less when warm, the same sideways dragging is happening, but the high loads are just being absorbed by the tire and steering instead of breaking traction.

It totally pisses me off. I didn't drop well over 100K on an SUV to endure such continual jarring. It's horrible. I've driven mamy many AWD, 4WD, FWD vehicles in my life and never experienced anything like this. This is a design flaw with the steering/suspension, I believe.

No, no it’s actually the tires and the Ackermann Effect with temperature, no matter what you choose to believe.

As soon as I switch to my winter set in the cooler months there’s no problem.

 

[tomsla]

The tire hops like that when it is moving more sideways than forward, just like dragging a rubber soled shoe in a direction other than the direction of travel.

 

[Propofoln]

No, no it’s actually the tires and the Ackermann Effect with temperature, no matter what you choose to believe.

As soon as I switch to my winter set in the cooler months there’s no problem.

It’s done it, although not as prominent, in my Porsche Panamera’s and M5. Ackerman effect

 

[brooklyn]

This and the 35-55 shudder are my two complaints with my MSP and while I've accepted the explanation of why this particular "thing" happens, I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. These are by far the widest wheels and tires I've ever run on a car, but I'm curious at what width this starts happening. We have 265/40/21s (I think 265...) on the wife's eTron and don't experience this, but then I think her Vossens are maybe 9-9.5" wide at most. I ran 255/35/20s on my C7 S6 but again, my wheels were only 8.5 or 9" on that car. On the factory 21s I get this under the same circumstances you all are describing consistently, regardless of temps. I've learned to mitigate it somewhat by expanding my turning radius whenever possible. My Signature Wheels in 20x10 fitment will probably get mounted next week, but I'm assuming I'll have the same issue with those and the 285/35/20 tires I'll be running. Sounds and feels like the damn suspension is about to break off whenever it happens. Jarring, to say the least even when I know it's coming.

 

[WilliamG]

This and the 35-55 shudder are my two complaints with my MSP and while I've accepted the explanation of why this particular "thing" happens, I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. These are by far the widest wheels and tires I've ever run on a car, but I'm curious at what width this starts happening. We have 265/40/21s (I think 265...) on the wife's eTron and don't experience this, but then I think her Vossens are maybe 9-9.5" wide at most. I ran 255/35/20s on my C7 S6 but again, my wheels were only 8.5 or 9" on that car. On the factory 21s I get this under the same circumstances you all are describing consistently, regardless of temps. I've learned to mitigate it somewhat by expanding my turning radius whenever possible. My Signature Wheels in 20x10 fitment will probably get mounted next week, but I'm assuming I'll have the same issue with those and the 285/35/20 tires I'll be running. Sounds and feels like the damn suspension is about to break off whenever it happens. Jarring, to say the least even when I know it's coming.

It shouldn't happen in quite warm temps. I get it anywhere below around 60F on the 21" stock summers, and never on the 19s with winters I have, regardless of temperature (well, down to around 27F, which I believe is the coldest I've driven here in the Pacific Northwest).

 

[Mr.S3XY]

As soon as I switch to my winter set in the cooler months there’s no problem.

I just started experiencing this recently (in Maryland) with mine. I've known about the different radius issue with the inside/outside wheels, but didn't know it had a name. Very cool to learn that. I'm trying to wrap my head around how winter tire compounds would eliminate the binding of one wheel in tight, slow turns. I can see that a summer compound would harden up in cooler temps, and skid a bit. Mine feels more like binding to me. Of course, it could be one in the same... binding before the slip. I'd think the winter compound wouldn't allow for that slip, meaning the binding holds, and excess lateral forces on the tires remains. Thoughts?

 

[WilliamG]

I just started experiencing this recently (in Maryland) with mine. I've known about the different radius issue with the inside/outside wheels, but didn't know it had a name. Very cool to learn that. I'm trying to wrap my head around how winter tire compounds would eliminate the binding of one wheel in tight, slow turns. I can see that a summer compound would harden up in cooler temps, and skid a bit. Mine feels more like binding to me. Of course, it could be one in the same... binding before the slip. I'd think the winter compound wouldn't allow for that slip, meaning the binding holds, and excess lateral forces on the tires remains. Thoughts?

It's not binding. It's just hard compound + small area of traction. Summer tires get pretty solid in the colder weather. As it's cooled off in Seattle, my car has started doing it again on the 21s with PS4S. Almost time for me to switch to my winters!

 

[Mr.S3XY]

It's not binding. It's just hard compound + small area of traction. Summer tires get pretty solid in the colder weather. As it's cooled off in Seattle, my car has started doing it again on the 21s with PS4S. Almost time for me to switch to my winters!

Makes sense... Does anyone have experience with all season tires? We don't get the winter precip here so much (unless we get a Nor'easter that drops blizzard level snow), so the more aggressive tread patterns don't add much.