Plaid+ orders, post here if you're upset

[catalyst07]

How many of you are upset about our situation?

I placed my Plaid order with $1000 deposit on Battery Day (Sept 22, 2020), the minute Elon said it was available to order. There was no Plaid+ at the time. Later they created a Plaid+, and automatically converted my reservation to a Plaid+. Now they cancel the Plaid+ and won't convert the reservation back to a Plaid? Meanwhile they increased the price of the Plaid car by $12k? I didn't even get a call asking me to downgrade back to Plaid like some of you.

The cherry on top is that I got to go to the Plaid event in Fremont last night and watch 25 other guys pick up their new Plaids and get special tequila bottles– I feel very disheartened to be punished for not manually converting my reservation back down to a Plaid.

At the very least Tesla needs to honor the original price for everyone forced into this situation who ordered a Plaid+. A bonus would be for Plaid+ owners to skip to the front of the delivery line, but one thing at a time...

If anyone else is in a similar situation, please post in here and we'll take it to Tesla

 

[cryptyk]

Yah - The right thing for them to do would be to honor the $119k price, $8k FSD, and $1.5k interior.

That seems totally fair.

To auto-upgrade me to plaid+, then cancel plaid+, then try to sell me a lesser car at the same price is shady af.

Imagine if you bought tickets to a concert. There are $50 tickets and $100 tickets. You buy the $100 tickets and a week before the concert they tell you that they aren't going to sell the $100 tickets, but you can have the $50 seats if you want... but they now cost $100. F that noise.

 

[BrianKH]

After my initial call with Tesla (which I posted about in the Model S update thread), I decided to give it another try by going a different route through the chat on their the website. After I explained my situation, I was told they would have my SA reach out to me. I responded that I was not even aware I had a SA. I was given a name and told I would receive a call.

I did receive a call later today, about 5:00 pm EST from a California number. I was sure it was my SA. It was not the SA I was told would be calling but it was Tesla. The person calling me said they are with the Tesla Customer Loyalty team (I may not have that correct but I do know "loyalty" was in there somewhere). I cannot be sure, but I am thinking they may have escalated my chat and had a different individual call me as opposed to a SA.

I explained my situation. He told me the same thing I heard before in the day -- that I have two options: (1) a return of my $1,000 deposit; or (2) pay the extra $10,000 and switch to a Plaid. I told him I would not pay the extra $10,000 and this feels like a punch to the gut after all of the loyalty I have shown toward Tesla. I told him my history with Tesla (reserved a Model 3 on April 1, 2016, took delivery of that car in September 2018, took delivery of a second Model 3 in August 2019, took delivery of a 2019 Model X Performance in September 2019). I also explained that I have wanted an S now for more than three years but kept holding off because I wanted the horizontal monitor and HVAC ventilation system like the Model 3. Thus, I placed an order for the Plaid during the Battery Day event.

The caller was very professional, said he understood how I felt, and then told me he would take my issue up with his manager. I was told they are having some sort of meeting on Tuesday where a manager(s) will hear about my case (and I got the impression they are hearing from others like us) and then decide how they are going to proceed. I was told I should hear back some time mid to end of week next week. I told him I would commit to ordering the Plaid now if they waive the extra $10,000. I also commented how I was initially excited about the $10,000 bump when it was announced as I thought we may be getting some features of the planned Plaid+ (like the 4680 batteries) when Elon livestreamed last night - but, there was nothing last night that I didn't already know and absolutely nothing offered to justify the $10,000 increase. The last thing I remember telling him is that in my mind I could not spend that much money on a car (and pay the extra $10,000) without thinking every time I was in the car that Tesla had gouged me. It would take all of the joy out of the purchase for me.

I am hopeful Tesla will stand by customers who have shown our faith in the company over the years. As indicated above, it was Tesla who converted us to Plaid+ when it was announced. I didn't bitch and moan that I was thrown into the more expensive model without being asked - nor did I ask for my deposit back. Don't punish me because Tesla decided the timing is not right for a Plaid+.

 

[cryptyk]

After my initial call with Tesla (which I posted about in the Model S update thread), I decided to give it another try by going a different route through the chat on their the website. After I explained my situation, I was told they would have my SA reach out to me. I responded that I was not even aware I had a SA. I was given a name and told I would receive a call.

I did receive a call later today, about 5:00 pm EST from a California number. I was sure it was my SA. It was not the SA I was told would be calling but it was Tesla. The person calling me said they are with the Tesla Customer Loyalty team (I may not have that correct but I do know "loyalty" was in there somewhere). I cannot be sure, but I am thinking they may have escalated my chat and had a different individual call me as opposed to a SA.

I explained my situation. He told me the same thing I heard before in the day -- that I have two options: (1) a return of my $1,000 deposit; or (2) pay the extra $10,000 and switch to a Plaid. I told him I would not pay the extra $10,000 and this feels like a punch to the gut after all of the loyalty I have shown toward Tesla. I told him my history with Tesla (reserved a Model 3 on April 1, 2016, took delivery of that car in September 2018, took delivery of a second Model 3 in August 2019, took delivery of a 2019 Model X Performance in September 2019). I also explained that I have wanted an S now for more than three years but kept holding off because I wanted the horizontal monitor and HVAC ventilation system like the Model 3. Thus, I placed an order for the Plaid during the Battery Day event.

The caller was very professional, said he understood how I felt, and then told me he would take my issue up with his manager. I was told they are having some sort of meeting on Tuesday where a manager(s) will hear about my case (and I got the impression they are hearing from others like us) and then decide how they are going to proceed. I was told I should hear back some time mid to end of week next week. I told him I would commit to ordering the Plaid now if they waive the extra $10,000. I also commented how I was initially excited about the $10,000 bump when it was announced as I thought we may be getting some features of the planned Plaid+ (like the 4680 batteries) when Elon livestreamed last night - but, there was nothing last night that I didn't already know and absolutely nothing offered to justify the $10,000 increase. The last thing I remember telling him is that in my mind I could not spend that much money on a car (and pay the extra $10,000) without thinking every time I was in the car that Tesla had gouged me. It would take all of the joy out of the purchase for me.

I am hopeful Tesla will stand by customers who have shown our faith in the company over the years. As indicated above, it was Tesla who converted us to Plaid+ when it was announced. I didn't bitch and moan that I was thrown into the more expensive model without being asked - nor did I ask for my deposit back. Don't punish me because Tesla decided the timing is not right for a Plaid+.

Great post. Thanks for the detail. Definitely looking forward to an update next week on this!

 

[aerodyne]

I'm a bit upset I misread the Tesla tea leaves and cancelled my plus order I placed on battery day, April 1st.

Could have had a plaid on order now for 10k less...

 

[rmealey]

I am in the same boat and canceled my Plaid+ reservation last night. The car they showed Thursday was not what was promised - less range, less performance, no structural battery pack, no 4680 cells. As an owner of a Raven Performance S now I don't see the justification for spending $40,000 more than I spent on my car a year ago - .3 secs quicker to 60 (maybe) quicker 1/4 mile (which I never do), 40 more miles of range (maybe). When I thought back on all of the things that were teased out on the Nuremberg and Laguna test car like wider fenders, big diffusers, carbon brakes, big front splitters and even the recent sighting of a moveable rear wing I became really angry at what they showed us. With the loss of red brakes it is even less special and differentiated from the LR than my car is, which is pathetic. Part of having the top of the line "special" car is that is looks special and I think they had a chance to do something extraordinary here. Instead they give us the same old party trick - zero to sixty - in the same old clothes (new plastic nose and bumper not withstanding). Even the wheels aren't really new (flatter yes) - I have arachnids on my S now.

I'm all in on Tesla, I'm on my 3rd car, I have the solar panels, Power Wall, I even own a significant amount of stock. Elon has been a personal hero for sure. However, that magic might be wearing thin. I don't know how many more ridiculous made-and-broken promises I can stand. I've paid for FSD 3 times and still haven't seen it. Two of those cars are gone, so I paid for something that was never delivered to me. Not to be too picky but I've never seen the exact speed or range promised either. Some car companies go out of their way to underpromise, Tesla's reputation is becoming more of the opposite. If they keep it close enough, I can live with that. I get it, we are pushing the envelope and we need to grab attention and headlines to get petrolheads to pay attention. However, is Elon taking too much license with our sentimentality and patience? How can you promise an 8 second 1/4 mile car with 520 miles of range and then unceremoniously cancel it on your flipping twitter account? How can you promise FSD by the end of what 2019 and be no closer to it in 2021 than 2018 (in my car anyway)? Do any of us really believe they are going to deliver a gigantic stainless steel truck with the plaid powertrain and plaid+ range for $69,000? How in the world does that make sense to anyone if they couldn't deliver it in a $140,000 car. So when 2021 comes to a close and not a single CT has been delivered we will all just say "oh well Tesla missed another deadline". Then comes summer of 2022 (if we are lucky) and they are doing a similar delivery event for CT but they completely neuter the specs and raise the price $10,000 what will we all say then? I ask you, if you are a real Tesla owner and fan, like me, and not just a college kid on twitter dreaming about Teslas, how is this going to sit with you. Can you imagine if the Model S still has exactly the same sheet metal as it did in 2012 in 2030? Isn't the Model 3 due for a significant update? Most car companies do minor tweaks every 2 years and full model changes every 4. Tesla has never done a full model change in my opinion.

The truth is Tesla has never had to act like a competitor in a competitive space so they have been able to get away with things that traditional automakers could never do. It will not be this way forever. I hope all the wonderful people at Tesla, Elon included, understand that at some point they are going to have to compete in a crowded marketplace full of compelling vehicles. There is no more meat on the 0-60 bone to pick at, it's a trick all electric vehicles with massive battery packs can do. It is going to take more than a new nose and/or bumper every 5 years to keep this car feeling fresh and relevant.

Having said all of that the sad truth is I will still probably end up buying one. The Porsche is ... well it isn't a Tesla and I like Teslas. Argh I am part of the problem!

 

[aerodyne]

I am in the same boat and canceled my Plaid+ reservation last night. The car they showed Thursday was not what was promised - less range, less performance, no structural battery pack, no 4680 cells. As an owner of a Raven Performance S now I don't see the justification for spending $40,000 more than I spent on my car a year ago - .3 secs quicker to 60 (maybe) quicker 1/4 mile (which I never do), 40 more miles of range (maybe). When I thought back on all of the things that were teased out on the Nuremberg and Laguna test car like wider fenders, big diffusers, carbon brakes, big front splitters and even the recent sighting of a moveable rear wing I became really angry at what they showed us. With the loss of red brakes it is even less special and differentiated from the LR than my car is, which is pathetic. Part of having the top of the line "special" car is that is looks special and I think they had a chance to do something extraordinary here. Instead they give us the same old party trick - zero to sixty - in the same old clothes (new plastic nose and bumper not withstanding). Even the wheels aren't really new (flatter yes) - I have arachnids on my S now.

I'm all in on Tesla, I'm on my 3rd car, I have the solar panels, Power Wall, I even own a significant amount of stock. Elon has been a personal hero for sure. However, that magic might be wearing thin. I don't know how many more ridiculous made-and-broken promises I can stand. I've paid for FSD 3 times and still haven't seen it. Two of those cars are gone, so I paid for something that was never delivered to me. Not to be too picky but I've never seen the exact speed or range promised either. Some car companies go out of their way to underpromise, Tesla's reputation is becoming more of the opposite. If they keep it close enough, I can live with that. I get it, we are pushing the envelope and we need to grab attention and headlines to get petrolheads to pay attention. However, is Elon taking too much license with our sentimentality and patience? How can you promise an 8 second 1/4 mile car with 520 miles of range and then unceremoniously cancel it on your flipping twitter account? How can you promise FSD by the end of what 2019 and be no closer to it in 2021 than 2018 (in my car anyway)? Do any of us really believe they are going to deliver a gigantic stainless steel truck with the plaid powertrain and plaid+ range for $69,000? How in the world does that make sense to anyone if they couldn't deliver it in a $140,000 car. So when 2021 comes to a close and not a single CT has been delivered we will all just say "oh well Tesla missed another deadline". Then comes summer of 2022 (if we are lucky) and they are doing a similar delivery event for CT but they completely neuter the specs and raise the price $10,000 what will we all say then? I ask you, if you are a real Tesla owner and fan, like me, and not just a college kid on twitter dreaming about Teslas, how is this going to sit with you. Can you imagine if the Model S still has exactly the same sheet metal as it did in 2012 in 2030? Isn't the Model 3 due for a significant update? Most car companies do minor tweaks every 2 years and full model changes every 4. Tesla has never done a full model change in my opinion.

The truth is Tesla has never had to act like a competitor in a competitive space so they have been able to get away with things that traditional automakers could never do. It will not be this way forever. I hope all the wonderful people at Tesla, Elon included, understand that at some point they are going to have to compete in a crowded marketplace full of compelling vehicles. There is no more meat on the 0-60 bone to pick at, it's a trick all electric vehicles with massive battery packs can do. It is going to take more than a new nose and/or bumper every 5 years to keep this car feeling fresh and relevant.

Having said all of that the sad truth is I will still probably end up buying one. The Porsche is ... well it isn't a Tesla and I like Teslas. Argh I am part of the problem!

Now, with the 40k savings, you can get a CT. Thinking that won't need a refresh ever...

 

[Cal1]

So my fear (and fight with the wife) is that if i commit today they will come to their senses and honor the reduced price to those with the patience and fortitude to wait them out. We seem to always buy our MS's in the fall when they pull demand levers to get that final total delivery number. We've always managed to get free supercharging and a discount on the price. This will be our third MS.

I know they won't go back to folks that pulled the gun early and retroactively offer free supercharging and that isn't that big a deal to us. The $10k discount would a pretty good incentive to buy now and that's why I'm hesitant to commit now. I don't think they would adjust our price if they do adjust for Plaid + folks. Unfortunately this may be out of my hands. The wife can just buy it with the gains on her Tesla IRA holdings. And she'd probably buy a black one just to piss me off.

So what words do I say to the local sales advisor manager to get this moved up the management chain?

 

[rmealey]

Now, with the 40k savings, you can get a CT. Thinking that won't need a refresh ever...

I do really need a truck, so I would in a second. But wait ... where is the truck I can order? Maybe next year huh?

 

[aerodyne]

I do really need a truck, so I would in a second. But wait ... where is the truck I can order? Maybe next year huh?

Maybe before the refresh LR, who knows? May beat estimates like MY...

 

[catalyst07]

So my fear (and fight with the wife) is that if i commit today they will come to their senses and honor the reduced price to those with the patience and fortitude to wait them out. We seem to always buy our MS's in the fall when they pull demand levers to get that final total delivery number. We've always managed to get free supercharging and a discount on the price. This will be our third MS.

I know they won't go back to folks that pulled the gun early and retroactively offer free supercharging and that isn't that big a deal to us. The $10k discount would a pretty good incentive to buy now and that's why I'm hesitant to commit now. I don't think they would adjust our price if they do adjust for Plaid + folks. Unfortunately this may be out of my hands. The wife can just buy it with the gains on her Tesla IRA holdings. And she'd probably buy a black one just to piss me off.

So what words do I say to the local sales advisor manager to get this moved up the management chain?

Just tell them that you're a loyal customer and that you want to escalate.

It's crazy how many enthusiasts with a long purchase history like @BrianKH and @rmealey are having to deal with this nonsense. I purchased my Model 3 Performance after I ordered the Plaid in September with the intention of holding me off until the Plaid was delivered...

Any Tesla employees reading this, can any of you create a throw-away account and chime in here?

 

[aerodyne]

I do really need a truck, so I would in a second. But wait ... where is the truck I can order? Maybe next year huh?

With nearly a million CT orders, you'll have to get in line.

If you want something really unique, you can try something like this. No one has done it on a MS, you could be the first:

 

[Trompazo]

When I thought back on all of the things that were teased out on the Nuremberg and Laguna test car like wider fenders, big diffusers, carbon brakes, big front splitters and even the recent sighting of a moveable rear wing I became really angry at what they showed us.

I agree with all of these points.

I made a reservation on battery day. I Track and autocross regularly. I was planning to replace my Model 3 perf with the plaid (+). I have a Porsche GT3 that I was also planning to replace with the new Plaid as a daily driver and part time track day vehicle. The fender flares and aero on the prototype appeared they were focused on handling and track performance. The 4680 battery seemed to be what was needed so this could spend a day on the track.

I kept my Plaid + reservation (No contact from Tesla regarding that and its still in place), and made a Plaid reservation after the Elon cancelation tweet.

Although the regular Plaid appears to have great straight line acceleration, so far that seems to be it. I will wait for some track tests, but there really has been nothing coming out about handling and track longevity from a larger battery.

It still makes no sense about the Ring and Laguna Seca testing. It does not appear they were testing this “Plaid” which is being released now. I am hopeful that something better is coming, but seems unlikely now.

 

[rmealey]

Well, it certainly could be that they plan to release a Plaid+ (or some new name) at a point in the future. Otherwise I can't imagine what all of that fuss was about. Unless it was, in fact, some form of subterfuge to divert sales away from Porsche and Lucid, or Rivian. There have been a lot of coincidentally close performance metrics promised by Mr. Musk at a time when they would impact orders of competitive vehicles the most. I want to believe Tesla doesn't need to resort to misleading tactics to compete against companies with a fraction of their experience. It demeans Tesla every time they pull a stunt like this. I think our ever optimistic and exuberant leader sometimes paints himself into corners that the engineering and or accounting team can't get out of. We have to remember that a Model S should never be a $180,000 car, like the Taycan Turbo S. Yet I was dreaming of carbon ceramic brakes on my $140,000 Plaid+. Maybe I am the one being most unrealistic.

With the news of the Unplugged Performance crew racing a modified Plaid Model S around Laguna this weekend and the fact that they are now an official service partner of Tesla, I am starting to think we could see an AMG style colobaration with Unplugged Performance. That would be pretty amazing if you could purchase some sort of UP Paid+ super Tesla with all of the record breaking track inspired goodies and full Tesla warranty / authenticity. I'll bet it will be $160K+ if it did happen.

 

[MarcG]

I agree with all of these points.

I made a reservation on battery day. I Track and autocross regularly. I was planning to replace my Model 3 perf with the plaid (+). I have a Porsche GT3 that I was also planning to replace with the new Plaid as a daily driver and part time track day vehicle. The fender flares and aero on the prototype appeared they were focused on handling and track performance. The 4680 battery seemed to be what was needed so this could spend a day on the track.

I kept my Plaid + reservation (No contact from Tesla regarding that and its still in place), and made a Plaid reservation after the Elon cancelation tweet.

Although the regular Plaid appears to have great straight line acceleration, so far that seems to be it. I will wait for some track tests, but there really has been nothing coming out about handling and track longevity from a larger battery.

It still makes no sense about the Ring and Laguna Seca testing. It does not appear they were testing this “Plaid” which is being released now. I am hopeful that something better is coming, but seems unlikely now.

Exactly in the same situation (expect for the GT3, my track car was a TTRS). M3P is fun on the track for a few laps but I’m getting tired of doing less than half the length of track sessions.

If Plaid+ doesn’t come out in the next year and Plaid can’t do full 20-30 minute track sessions without power limitations, I might get an S LR and put the ~$50k I would’ve saved toward a dedicated track car (e.g. Ariel Atom).

 

[croman]

They ran the plaid demo cars for 3 hours nonstop launches. The new S doesn't fatigue.

That being said, I think any Illinois Plaid+ buyers should be converted to plaid without penalty or Tesla is violating the consumer fraud act for a deceptive practice (even innocent).

Illinois companies are not allowed to change consumer terms in a deceptive manner and this clearly fits the bill to me. It's a classic rug pull.

 

[MarcG]

They ran the plaid demo cars for 3 hours nonstop launches. The new S doesn't fatigue.

There’s a big difference between accelerating for a few seconds every several minutes, and doing a proper lap on a track for 20-30 minutes.

I was there at the event, so I know exactly what was happening. They had about 8 cars loading & unloading people, gentling driving to the launch spot, then they launched 0-100mph (so about 3-4 seconds) but didn’t brake hard, and drove back with little power fluctuations to the load/unload spot. AND it was relative cold (in the upper 50’s).

On a race track, you’re constantly accelerating & decelerating. Acceleration lasts much longer than 3-4 seconds at a time, and deceleration also heats up the battery for regen. And the track gets HOT during the daytime, which is when track events are run.

So I will personally wait and see how the Plaid performs on a track day in real conditions before making a decision. I would be very happily surprised if it can do 30 minutes of hard driving without curtailing power.

 

[croman]

There’s a big difference between accelerating for a few seconds every several minutes, and doing a proper lap on a track for 20-30 minutes.

I was there at the event, so I know exactly what was happening. They had about 8 cars loading & unloading people, gentling driving to the launch spot, then they launched 0-100mph (so about 3-4 seconds) but didn’t brake hard, and drove back with little power fluctuations to the load/unload spot. AND it was relative cold (in the upper 50’s).

On a race track, you’re constantly accelerating & decelerating. Acceleration lasts much longer than 3-4 seconds at a time, and deceleration also heats up the battery for regen. And the track gets HOT during the daytime, which is when track events are run.

So I will personally wait and see how the Plaid performs on a track day in real conditions before making a decision. I would be very happily surprised if it can do 30 minutes of hard driving without curtailing power.

Fair enough. Skepticism is healthy but it seems they designed this S to overcome the thermal issues of the past. Time will tell.

 

[MagnusMako]

I think that the Plaid+ will come eventually, likely as a refresh to current Plaid once the 4680 cells are ready for production. I can't see them NOT doing it after everything they talked about from battery day between the new cells and structural packs. Current cells that they're calling 'brand new' are just an improved chemistry but it's essentially good enough to satisfy as an improved S and bump up sales again. And people still want to be able to track a Plaid. Elon did say at the event 'maybe we'll have to go back to the Nurburgring one day' (or something along those lines), I believe that was a subtle hint that yes they would like to do a more hardcore (4680) version, but they're just too cell constrained right now and to achieve the times they did on the Green Hell, they need 4680's en masse. Notice there wasn't any mention of structural packs at the event either? Yeah, not ready yet. Also, I noticed when Dragtimes pushed Franz for an 8 second car in person at the event - he was careful not to say anything too specific but did reply with "we're just going to be relentless"..."we'll get in the 8's" which to me implies that yeah, they're going to have an 8 second S at some point (*cough* 4680 cells *cough*). Maybe not by next year, but perhaps after that - all depends on how well scaling up 4680's go. I wouldn't be surprised if they've opted to put focus of the 4680 on going into 3 / Y / CT - because those are their volume cars and that's where they would see the biggest impact on overall profit margin's. So for now they're going to let the S continue using current 'new' optimized cells, get 4680 into their high volume vehicles, then as production capacity and cell constraints are eased, eventually make it's way into the S and X. That's my theory atleast. Sucks for those who've reserved now expecting it but I think if you just hold out, you will get one by 2023.

 

[Plaid+Vaprware]

Why the hell would I want to pay this much for a car that's just got a new candy wrapper with some new bells and whistles and half a steering wheel?

New battery tech. Track focused, structurally superior design. That's what I signed up for.

You didn't cancel my order Elon, I'm cancelling on you.