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Plaid Owners PSA: Ifhate the Yoke/Turn Signals/Horn, please complain to the NHTSA

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Or don’t buy it, if you don’t like it.
Exactly what I've done.......or not done. So many say we'll get used to it. For $130,000, I don't want to have to get used to it. My hand are almost ALWAYS on the top part of the steering wheel. It's how I'm most comfortable driving. Have tried driving with just the bottom half of the wheel. Yes, it can be done, but that's not the point. I'm less comfortable with it. Next, when I have to make a sudden maneuver, I grab the top of the wheel. When I have to honk to prevent someone from backing into me in a panic, I struggle enough as it is to get to the big button the makes up the center of the wheel. No chance in hell I'd find that little touch button in a panic. Simply put, regardless of whether its less safe, it sure as hell isn't a step in the direction of being more safe. Tesla prides it self on safety. There's just no logic or reality that taking away half of the wheel is more safe. I've never struggled to see my gauges, so that excuse is irrelevant.

I need a car to be "driver friendly" as drivers are still required. When FSD becomes a reality many years from now, if ever, maybe this stuff will be fine. But Elon has put the horse before the water. I hated driving the Model 3. The Model S doubled down and took it much further, despite the fact that FSD is still nowhere near completion.

Between the wheel and that stupid shifter being on the screen instead of a physical control that I can "feel with instinct" and not have to take my eyes away to look to see what I'm doing", I simply will not buy the Model S again. After 9+ years in a Tesla, my 2019 Raven will be my last. Unless Tesla reconsiders. Surely somethings will be reconsidered by Tesla. Just depends on how much of it they reconsider. For me, I need at least physical controls I can feel without looking for shifting, horn, blinkers and need a full wheel to be able to control the car in my most comfortable position and the safest manner.
 
When you change…from riding a bicycle to a motorcycle, you still brake with your hand, but now…you’ve a foot break instead of using your other hand…and an accelerator / throttle that you have to turn, instead of peddling with your feet. Different..but..over time, you get more comfortable and things that felt uncomfortable and unfamiliar or even unsafe to you initially, all fade..in favor of muscle memory and experience, over time.

New…doesn’t necessarily mean worse. It could ultimately mean better, or that some parts are better, some are the same, and/or some are worse. It DOES though, initially mean…unfamiliar.

The yoke was not intended for you to hold it on the top! It is meant for you to grip it with both hands, on the vertical sides (generally). Like your at 9 and 3 on a traditional steering wheel. If you use it by default..like that..while it may not be what you’re used to, it IS both functional and super comfortable.

You want a horn to be dead center on the wheel. Ok…I get that..but
-where- did your comfort level and familiarity with it being there come from?

It -came- from having been trained that is where the horn is.

Had horns never been there and the horn was activated with your left foot,
or by voice command, or by a button on the dash, you would have learned it as being there…and anything else would feel unfamiliar.

my point is…we (generally) get used to what we’re used to. I’ve posted previously that I am a fan of the Yoke . Whether for viewing the screen in front (unobstructed), one touch FSD, turn indicators that only require a shift of your thumb to invoke, the looks of the yoke, etc..I prefer it. There is a LOT to like about the LR refresh and the Plaid…and personally, I count the Yoke as one of those things.
 
For all those that have argued that race car drivers prefer the yoke over a full wheel, well, here's proof that's not the case...
Just watched the video of Randy Pobst breaking the lap record at Laguna Seca with the new Plaid S and what do you know, the took out the stupid yoke thing and put in a full steering wheel. Now why in the world would they do that if the joke yoke is so much better??? Because it's not. Having driven a race car or two in my day, I can certainly tell you, in a full bodied car, a full steering wheel is absolutely necessary. In Formula 1 or IndyCar where they only need to turn the wheel 10-15 degrees at the most, that's one thing, but for most street cars or full bodied race cars, you need the full wheel. Just like in real world driving when completing a 3 point turn or u-turn. Sure, you can do it, but it's awkward as heck to do so and in case where a car may be barreling down on you at 60 MPH and you need to quickly get your car out of the way, what would you rather have, once where there's wheel anywhere you grab, or one that you have awkwardly place your hands to find what part of the wheel is there? How about rushing that quick shift into reverse? Before was a quick flick of your finger, able to be done without taking your hand off the wheel and without looking. Now, you've got to turn your head from the looking at the on coming car to your left, all the way over to the center screen to find the shift slider on the screen to get it into reverse. And do it again to put it back in Drive. Yeah, not gonna happen in any car I'm driving. Many, many times I've needed to quickly shift and wouldn't be able to as quickly in the new car. As with the panic horn fiasco, many times when that car is backing out of a spot not looking and ready to hit me, I've instinctively flicked out my finger and put the car in reverse and backed out of the way to prevent the other car from hitting me. That ain't happening in the new car. Have had multiple occasions in my S where these "driver friendly" features were an absolute must and saved me from someone else damaging my car. May be their fault and their financial responsibility to fix my car after their mistake, but, I'm still the one that has to deal with the hassle of getting it fixed. Had it happen once, sure as hell don't want to have to deal with that again! Didn't cost me anything monetarily, but sure was a pain in my ass. Absolutely would have had to do it more than once had my horn or shifter not been where they were to save my butt.

In response to so many that keep saying you can get used to it, that's fine and dandy and there is truth to it. But just because you learn to live with it doesn't make it better. There's no scenario in a panic situation where you are forced to take your eyes away to "LOOK" for what you need to do that is better and faster than being able to instinctively do the same task without looking. Flicking a turn signal stalk or shifter with your finger while your hand is on the wheel or just finding a big ol' button at the middle of the wheel for the horn, just based on feel, without having to visually find them is always going to be easier than finding these items with your eyes on a moving target.

There was a day when we actually had to use physical keys to unlock the doors and start the car. Did we get used to it? Of course. Was it better than just walking up to your car, getting in and putting it in gear and driving away? Then what did Tesla do? Came up with some idiotic key car thing for the Model 3 that EVERYONE complained about and eventually wised up and at least offered a key fob option. The same thing will happen here. Tesla got exactly what they wanted, EVERYONE is talking about it. For now, they have more buyers willing to "live with it" than they can build cars. So, they'll ride it out to keep people talking until such time that it starts impacting sales and then make the changes. Maybe not all of them, but, I can bet you that many mom's shuttling their kids to school in an SUV aren't going to touch these things. Tesla will offer a full wheel again. Probably correct the horn too. Maybe put shifter paddles on it and probably come up with some type of physical buttons for the blinkers. Likely not getting stalks back.

1628246398798.png
 
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I personally would trade my left nut for a new refresh plaid. And would love the yoke I believe. But for some of the non yoke people that would rather not adapt to it there are lots of great new EV cars from the other OEMs starting to come out. We can all be right on this one...
no harm there.

but just don’t try and change things for all of us they do like the car and prefer choice.....
 
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For all those that have argued that race car drivers prefer the yoke over a full wheel, well, here's proof that's not the case...
Just watched the video of Randy Pobst breaking the lap record at Laguna Seca with the new Plaid S and what do you know, the took out the stupid yoke thing and put in a full steering wheel. Now why in the world would they do that if the joke yoke is so much better??? Because it's not. Having driven a race car or two in my day, I can certainly tell you, in a full bodied car, a full steering wheel is absolutely necessary. In Formula 1 or IndyCar where they only need to turn the wheel 10-15 degrees at the most, that's one thing, but for most street cars or full bodied race cars, you need the full wheel. Just like in real world driving when completing a 3 point turn or u-turn. Sure, you can do it, but it's awkward as heck to do so and in case where a car may be barreling down on you at 60 MPH and you need to quickly get your car out of the way, what would you rather have, once where there's wheel anywhere you grab, or one that you have awkwardly place your hands to find what part of the wheel is there? How about rushing that quick shift into reverse? Before was a quick flick of your finger, able to be done without taking your hand off the wheel and without looking. Now, you've got to turn your head from the looking at the on coming car to your left, all the way over to the center screen to find the shift slider on the screen to get it into reverse. And do it again to put it back in Drive. Yeah, not gonna happen in any car I'm driving. Many, many times I've needed to quickly shift and wouldn't be able to as quickly in the new car. As with the panic horn fiasco, many times when that car is backing out of a spot not looking and ready to hit me, I've instinctively flicked out my finger and put the car in reverse and backed out of the way to prevent the other car from hitting me. That ain't happening in the new car. Have had multiple occasions in my S where these "driver friendly" features were an absolute must and saved me from someone else damaging my car. May be their fault and their financial responsibility to fix my car after their mistake, but, I'm still the one that has to deal with the hassle of getting it fixed. Had it happen once, sure as hell don't want to have to deal with that again! Didn't cost me anything monetarily, but sure was a pain in my ass. Absolutely would have had to do it more than once had my horn or shifter not been where they were to save my butt.

In response to so many that keep saying you can get used to it, that's fine and dandy and there is truth to it. But just because you learn to live with it doesn't make it better. There's no scenario in a panic situation where you are forced to take your eyes away to "LOOK" for what you need to do that is better and faster than being able to instinctively do the same task without looking. Flicking a turn signal stalk or shifter with your finger while your hand is on the wheel or just finding a big ol' button at the middle of the wheel for the horn, just based on feel, without having to visually find them is always going to be easier than finding these items with your eyes on a moving target.

There was a day when we actually had to use physical keys to unlock the doors and start the car. Did we get used to it? Of course. Was it better than just walking up to your car, getting in and putting it in gear and driving away? Then what did Tesla do? Came up with some idiotic key car thing for the Model 3 that EVERYONE complained about and eventually wised up and at least offered a key fob option. The same thing will happen here. Tesla got exactly what they wanted, EVERYONE is talking about it. For now, they have more buyers willing to "live with it" than they can build cars. So, they'll ride it out to keep people talking until such time that it starts impacting sales and then make the changes. Maybe not all of them, but, I can bet you that many mom's shuttling their kids to school in an SUV aren't going to touch these things. Tesla will offer a full wheel again. Probably correct the horn too. Maybe put shifter paddles on it and probably come up with some type of physical buttons for the blinkers. Likely not getting stalks back.

View attachment 692876
For all those that have argued that race car drivers prefer the yoke over a full wheel, well, here's proof that's not the case...
Just watched the video of Randy Pobst breaking the lap record at Laguna Seca with the new Plaid S and what do you know, the took out the stupid yoke thing and put in a full steering wheel. Now why in the world would they do that if the joke yoke is so much better??? Because it's not. Having driven a race car or two in my day, I can certainly tell you, in a full bodied car, a full steering wheel is absolutely necessary. In Formula 1 or IndyCar where they only need to turn the wheel 10-15 degrees at the most, that's one thing, but for most street cars or full bodied race cars, you need the full wheel. Just like in real world driving when completing a 3 point turn or u-turn. Sure, you can do it, but it's awkward as heck to do so and in case where a car may be barreling down on you at 60 MPH and you need to quickly get your car out of the way, what would you rather have, once where there's wheel anywhere you grab, or one that you have awkwardly place your hands to find what part of the wheel is there? How about rushing that quick shift into reverse? Before was a quick flick of your finger, able to be done without taking your hand off the wheel and without looking. Now, you've got to turn your head from the looking at the on coming car to your left, all the way over to the center screen to find the shift slider on the screen to get it into reverse. And do it again to put it back in Drive. Yeah, not gonna happen in any car I'm driving. Many, many times I've needed to quickly shift and wouldn't be able to as quickly in the new car. As with the panic horn fiasco, many times when that car is backing out of a spot not looking and ready to hit me, I've instinctively flicked out my finger and put the car in reverse and backed out of the way to prevent the other car from hitting me. That ain't happening in the new car. Have had multiple occasions in my S where these "driver friendly" features were an absolute must and saved me from someone else damaging my car. May be their fault and their financial responsibility to fix my car after their mistake, but, I'm still the one that has to deal with the hassle of getting it fixed. Had it happen once, sure as hell don't want to have to deal with that again! Didn't cost me anything monetarily, but sure was a pain in my ass. Absolutely would have had to do it more than once had my horn or shifter not been where they were to save my butt.

In response to so many that keep saying you can get used to it, that's fine and dandy and there is truth to it. But just because you learn to live with it doesn't make it better. There's no scenario in a panic situation where you are forced to take your eyes away to "LOOK" for what you need to do that is better and faster than being able to instinctively do the same task without looking. Flicking a turn signal stalk or shifter with your finger while your hand is on the wheel or just finding a big ol' button at the middle of the wheel for the horn, just based on feel, without having to visually find them is always going to be easier than finding these items with your eyes on a moving target.

There was a day when we actually had to use physical keys to unlock the doors and start the car. Did we get used to it? Of course. Was it better than just walking up to your car, getting in and putting it in gear and driving away? Then what did Tesla do? Came up with some idiotic key car thing for the Model 3 that EVERYONE complained about and eventually wised up and at least offered a key fob option. The same thing will happen here. Tesla got exactly what they wanted, EVERYONE is talking about it. For now, they have more buyers willing to "live with it" than they can build cars. So, they'll ride it out to keep people talking until such time that it starts impacting sales and then make the changes. Maybe not all of them, but, I can bet you that many mom's shuttling their kids to school in an SUV aren't going to touch these things. Tesla will offer a full wheel again. Probably correct the horn too. Maybe put shifter paddles on it and probably come up with some type of physical buttons for the blinkers. Likely not getting stalks back.

View attachment 692876
Disagree.

I’ve posted sufficiently to explain my opinion in all this and if you don’t like it or want it- certainly entitled to your opinion (it seems..based upon order cue though, we’ve plenty of “takers).

For me, I love the Yoke more the longer I have it. I genuinely wouldn’t change it out for an old school rounded wheel, even if it was less expensive.

I do think there are subtle betterment changes they can make with the various buttons (so that things like accidentally turning on the wipers doesn’t happen), but broadly..the yoke is. Pleasure to drive and just feels good/right in your hands, particularly on performance/higher speed travel.
 
My take after 30 days or so with the new Model S LR is;

- firstly once you give it a bit of time its more relaxing to drive with - seriously - its very relaxing in the way you can control the car

- secondly you do better with a different hand over hand approach using the bar on the bottom of the yoke

- for car control there is almost no difference from a standard wheel - in some ways it forces you to keep both hands on the ’wheel’ , and when doing some sporty driving its a positive feeling

- i now prefer the indicator buttons to the stalk in our Model Y - its just really easy to activate without taking your hands of the ‘wheel’ which you do in Y regularly

- mostly the visibility is imporved - you dont really get it until you go back to a traditional ‘wheel’then you realize how much it helps.

I would say that I haven’t used the horn in anger during the time I’ve had the S…but will post back if its becomes needed.

Overall - once I got connected to the way it works its pretty easy and a positive experience….and my partner likes it too - she has had no stressful situatione.

So overall I feel that whilst its certainly ‘brave’ of Tesla to introduce the Yoke - so far id say its a success.
 
Hi fellow Plaid owners,

As you likely already know if you have one, the Plaid has the stupidest steering/turn signals/horn that was ever made. Many others and I think this is extremely dangerous and will inevitably lead to many accidents. We want to at least have the option to get a regular steering wheel and turn signals.

You seem to be under the impression that you will actually be using the turn signals and yoke in the near future.

Sell your car and buy an older one Plaid_Sad. Don't try and ruin it for the rest of us.
 
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Hi fellow Plaid owners,

As you likely already know if you have one, the Plaid has the stupidest steering/turn signals/horn that was ever made. Many others and I think this is extremely dangerous and will inevitably lead to many accidents. We want to at least have the option to get a regular steering wheel and turn signals.

Here is the link to file a formal complaint if you are an owner: Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA

Other people's complaints so far:

Recalls | NHTSA
Recalls | NHTSA

Model S Plaid Delivery and First Impressions

Thank you for your help and for looking for us. I own one but I almost want to sell it immediately because of this. Thought I could get used to it but there's just no way to ever be truly comfortable with it in case of an emergency situation.

6pnCs2p.jpg
What is "PSA"?
I googled it and the answer was Prostate Specific Antigen. Surely that's not the correct meaning in this thread.
 
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what were the pros of stalk/horn in center of steering wheel elimination? Serious question.
If the horn is available to your thumb, you can maintain both hands on the wheel when using the horn. This can be helpful if someone veers into your lane and you may need to swerve to avoid them. If you have smash the center of the wheel to use the horn with one hand, you're only able to use one hand to steer, and it's not in a great position to do so.

Of course the tradeoff with thumb buttons is not being able to find the horn while already in a turn.

Having horn buttons at the thumbs is not a Tesla first. Hondas and Mazdas from the 90s and early 00s had buttons as well:


900-525-CP_1_2.jpg
65492616.jpg
 
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I’m sorry.....
horns are about the most useless thing on a car ever put there. I’ve probably used my horn a handful of times in my life and I think every one of those times it was out of anger......or maybe to wake someone up at a light in front of me that appears to be on their phone.
what exactly are those “dangerous“ moments while driving when a split second matters.....where the horn is going to help save an accident?
be honest folks. When you HAVE used your horn was it for safety or to display your dis like of some one or something.
I hear car horns ever day in traffic.......pretty damn certain they are pissed off people
 
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Nobody has ever entered your lane and been oblivious to your presence? Go buy a lottery ticket. This can happen in a merge or if someone is entering an intersection and fails to yield. I've been places where buses use their horn to sound their oncoming presence on a narrow road.

Not only do I use my horn as an active safety measure to save my bacon, I often upgrade the horn on my vehicles - and ALL of my motorcycles. Just because a lot of people abuse their horn by using it as a measure of aggression doesn't mean it isn't a necessary safety item. In fact, when getting a safety inspection in VA, the first thing the inspector does is sound the horn.
 
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those things you describe have certainly happened to me. But my first instinct is to “drive the car” and react to whats happening. Brake, turn away, accelerate. Not to stop reacting and driving long enough to lay on my horn. I’m probably being a bit cynical here but I’ve watched people not do anything at all and lay on the horn because they think the other driver is an idiot and how dare them try to come into my lane. first rule of driving is “drive the car” everything else is second to that.
but yes I do know that a passenger automobile horn can be used to help get someone’s attention. I just think it’s way overused and has turned into an audible finger flip for most people.
this notion of needing it in the middle of a turn when you can’t find the button fast enough seems silly to me.
 
Never had someone intrude into your lane when there are multiple left or right turn lanes? Having access to the horn in those situations are also important. You're not always able to just silently drive your way out of every situation. You need to be able to use every active safety device to your advantage, and that includes making a lot of noise to get someone's attention.

Try riding a motorcycle and see if you don't think a horn is important.

Again, regardless of how people abuse their horn, there are still good drivers that still need to use the horn for safety reasons.
 
It feels odd reading these horn comments. In most part of Europe we don't use horns at all. Only in the yearly inspection it must work, and this is usually where people notice it's not working.

Some French cars have the horn as a button in the end of the stalk. Where you normally have windscreen washer..

Never had someone intrude into your lane when there are multiple left or right turn lanes? Having access to the horn in those situations are also important.

Sure, but it certainly is faster to brake or steer away from the situation? Especially if using the horn requires you to remove one hand from the steering wheel... Using horn, you first have to wait for the reaction time of the other party. And they might not be the cleverest drivers in the first place if they are cutting your lane?
 
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It feels odd reading these horn comments. In most part of Europe we don't use horns at all. Only in the yearly inspection it must work, and this is usually where people notice it's not working.

Some French cars have the horn as a button in the end of the stalk. Where you normally have windscreen washer..


Sure, but it certainly is faster to brake or steer away from the situation? Especially if using the horn requires you to remove one hand from the steering wheel... Using horn, you first have to wait for the reaction time of the other party. And they might not be the cleverest drivers in the first place if they are cutting your lane?

I've had a similar experience, country-specific. When visiting Ireland and England I have rarely if ever used the horn. Returning to Vancouver I use it constantly. The difference for me is that the drivers, cyclists, and pedestrians in Ireland and England are paying attention for the most part and understand their place in the road system.

In Vancouver (Canada) we have utterly oblivious people. You get to a four-way stop and some drivers refuse to go in turn, they just stare around or worse they wave the wrong people to go. Drivers turning in small roundabouts go the wrong way, and often don't yield to you when you're already in the roundabout so you have to slam to a stop as they blunder right in front of you. Pedestrians here will start to cross, I'm not kidding, across 6 lanes just as their light turns yellow, I have to make some effort to warn them and the other drivers. During a power cut I watched as most cars went straight through a major four-way intersection at speed, without stopping in any direction. I could go on. This did not happen in the European countries I visited.

My horn communication is not so much of anger but of "hey look out". Sometimes just a light tap to say, "I can see you have your head down looking at the phone, but you are wrongly crossing the road in front of traffic". Sometimes it's "just because you have stuck your nose out of the gas station don't think you are coming into 60kph traffic". The horn is necessary here, it's an early-warning system for the people who aren't paying attention.
 
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Hi fellow Plaid owners,

As you likely already know if you have one, the Plaid has the stupidest steering/turn signals/horn that was ever made. Many others and I think this is extremely dangerous and will inevitably lead to many accidents. We want to at least have the option to get a regular steering wheel and turn signals.

Here is the link to file a formal complaint if you are an owner: Report a Safety Problem | NHTSA

Other people's complaints so far:

Recalls | NHTSA
Recalls | NHTSA

Model S Plaid Delivery and First Impressions

Thank you for your help and for looking for us. I own one but I almost want to sell it immediately because of this. Thought I could get used to it but there's just no way to ever be truly comfortable with it in case of an emergency situation.

6pnCs2p.jpg
I have to agree with you. I'm sure Tesla fans will tell me to just get used to it but it is dangerous. This is the 5th Tesla that I have owned and I love them all. The yoke is an interesting idea but in practice it is poorly executed. Parking and city driving are particularly tricky. The fact is...there were no cars to test drive before ordering so you really can't make an informed decision before ordering.
 
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