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Plaid Safety

Boza

2021 Model S LR+
Sep 24, 2021
64
58
Usa
Yes but people are complaining about buttons not the turning ratio. Also f1 drivers look down from time to time at their buttons. There are like 5 buttons on the yoke. How hard is it to remember where they are? I find it remarkable how dumb people are that they can't remember simple things yet can afford a 100k car.
That is the issue - buttons position keeps changing when you turn the wheel/yoke. Unless you look or think you will not know where they are. Hence, all wheels with buttons have non-essential functions like stereo or cruise control that one typically use when the wheel is relatively static on the highway.
The F1 yoke avoids that problem with keeping the position, relative to hands, consistent - no need to look or think.
This is not a criticism of the yoke itself (another topic altogether). This is about the decision to implement hard to press, constantly moving buttons for critical functionality - whether on yoke or traditional wheel.
The whole thing is designed with FSD in mind; not for an actual driver.
 

SilentFlight

Member
Sep 5, 2021
128
59
Netherlands
If you insist on having capacitive touch buttons, then take it all the way and make them into tiny screens that I can configure to my liking. If not then please, put the turn signals on the corresponding side of the yoke. Left side to turn left and right side to turn right.
I think the turn signals should stay put, however they implement them. Even if they were on the corresponding sides of the yoke, as you turn it, they would alternate between being positioned as normal - up and down - reversed - down and up - normal as you turn the yoke. I have a Mercedes I have had for 7 years and I still need to look at the steering wheel buttons to figure out where they are if the wheel is not in the centered position. No big deal for changing the volume of your music or answering a call (though it can become a distraction) but it is unforgivable for something as critical to safe driving as the turn signals.
 

Issaction

LR | Cream/White | 19" | RN1152 | July 02
Jul 15, 2021
127
213
Round Rock, TX
I’m aware I can cancel my order thanks.

This is a forum to discuss Tesla, right? Am I only allowed to share positive opinions?
You’re allowed to share whatever opinion you want just like others are allowed to share their opinion on why they think you’re wrong. Nobody is silencing you.
 
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VaztheDad

Member
Apr 23, 2019
122
90
Nashville, TN
Finally got a chance to sit in a yolk equipped car over the weekend.

First and most importantly, the interior refinement is an incredible generation ahead of my AP1 90D. The doors were solid, the inlay cloth appointment looked great. The fit, finish, and refinement was a giant leap forward. Even pockets in the door to store a water bottle!

Sadly I played through the yoke scenarios in my mind for a solid 10-15 minutes sitting in the cabin, holding it different ways - how I drive when spirited, when cruising down the highway, etc. and came to the decision I couldn't buy it. Multiple decades of pleasurable driving experience has been shaped around the wheel. It's not something I'm willing to negotiate on sadly. I think I could learn the buttons and the lack of stalks (it would suck), but hand position is muscle memory which I'm not willing to change on. From my daily, to my wife's daily, to my track toys... I'm bummed.

I'm 100% onboard with the PLAID and would be ready to order.

Not sure I'd call it a safety issue, but a it's enough to impede me from not moving forward with that sweet sweet 1.9 0-60.
 

lbowroom

Plaid, white with black, CF, 19’s. Delivered 8/27
Sep 12, 2018
1,482
3,417
Orange County
Finally got a chance to sit in a yolk equipped car over the weekend.

First and most importantly, the interior refinement is an incredible generation ahead of my AP1 90D. The doors were solid, the inlay cloth appointment looked great. The fit, finish, and refinement was a giant leap forward. Even pockets in the door to store a water bottle!

Sadly I played through the yoke scenarios in my mind for a solid 10-15 minutes sitting in the cabin, holding it different ways - how I drive when spirited, when cruising down the highway, etc. and came to the decision I couldn't buy it. Multiple decades of pleasurable driving experience has been shaped around the wheel. It's not something I'm willing to negotiate on sadly. I think I could learn the buttons and the lack of stalks (it would suck), but hand position is muscle memory which I'm not willing to change on. From my daily, to my wife's daily, to my track toys... I'm bummed.

I'm 100% onboard with the PLAID and would be ready to order.

Not sure I'd call it a safety issue, but a it's enough to impede me from not moving forward with that sweet sweet 1.9 0-60.
Some people refuse to adapt to regen, your choice
 
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Mark2018s

Member
Mar 22, 2021
83
48
New York
Finally got a chance to sit in a yolk equipped car over the weekend.

First and most importantly, the interior refinement is an incredible generation ahead of my AP1 90D. The doors were solid, the inlay cloth appointment looked great. The fit, finish, and refinement was a giant leap forward. Even pockets in the door to store a water bottle!

Sadly I played through the yoke scenarios in my mind for a solid 10-15 minutes sitting in the cabin, holding it different ways - how I drive when spirited, when cruising down the highway, etc. and came to the decision I couldn't buy it. Multiple decades of pleasurable driving experience has been shaped around the wheel. It's not something I'm willing to negotiate on sadly. I think I could learn the buttons and the lack of stalks (it would suck), but hand position is muscle memory which I'm not willing to change on. From my daily, to my wife's daily, to my track toys... I'm bummed.

I'm 100% onboard with the PLAID and would be ready to order.

Not sure I'd call it a safety issue, but a it's enough to impede me from not moving forward with that sweet sweet 1.9 0-60.
You adapt to what you want to adapt to.

A lot of people decide they cant adapt to an electric car...we are a very adaptable species.

I would call it a refusal to get through the learning curve.
 
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bhzmark

Active Member
Jul 21, 2013
3,738
6,500
Finally got a chance to sit in a yolk equipped car over the weekend.

First and most importantly, the interior refinement is an incredible generation ahead of my AP1 90D. The doors were solid, the inlay cloth appointment looked great. The fit, finish, and refinement was a giant leap forward. Even pockets in the door to store a water bottle!

Sadly I played through the yoke scenarios in my mind for a solid 10-15 minutes sitting in the cabin, holding it different ways - how I drive when spirited, when cruising down the highway, etc. and came to the decision I couldn't buy it. Multiple decades of pleasurable driving experience has been shaped around the wheel. It's not something I'm willing to negotiate on sadly. I think I could learn the buttons and the lack of stalks (it would suck), but hand position is muscle memory which I'm not willing to change on. From my daily, to my wife's daily, to my track toys... I'm bummed.

I'm 100% onboard with the PLAID and would be ready to order.

Not sure I'd call it a safety issue, but a it's enough to impede me from not moving forward with that sweet sweet 1.9 0-60.
Everything you say is correct and I agree that a regular wheel would be better. But the annoyance of the yolk is a relatively small price to pay for the benefits of the refresh generally and the plaid specifically.

That said, we will never be able to do this in our Plaids because of the stupid yoke.
 
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Boza

2021 Model S LR+
Sep 24, 2021
64
58
Usa
You adapt to what you want to adapt to.

A lot of people decide they cant adapt to an electric car...we are a very adaptable species.

I would call it a refusal to get through the learning curve.
People do adapt - event to things that are not beneficial. That is why the adapting argument is not valid.
The real issue is not the yoke (while the implementation is more for show rather than real benefit) but the fact that Tesla did not offer wheel as an option. Even if we put aside the technical discussion (that horse has been beaten to death), from a business perspective, people are not likely to buy the car solely because of the yoke. However, people will likely -not- buy the car solely because of the yoke.
The FSD is nowhere near a point where we could sacrifice functionality (incl. what people are used to) for aesthetics.
 

Mark2018s

Member
Mar 22, 2021
83
48
New York
People do adapt - event to things that are not beneficial. That is why the adapting argument is not valid.
The real issue is not the yoke (while the implementation is more for show rather than real benefit) but the fact that Tesla did not offer wheel as an option. Even if we put aside the technical discussion (that horse has been beaten to death), from a business perspective, people are not likely to buy the car solely because of the yoke. However, people will likely -not- buy the car solely because of the yoke.
The FSD is nowhere near a point where we could sacrifice functionality (incl. what people are used to) for aesthetics.
I heard from an insider that the FSD is a lot farther along than is made public.
 
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SilentFlight

Member
Sep 5, 2021
128
59
Netherlands
I heard from an insider that the FSD is a lot farther along than is made public.
That wouldn't surprise me at all. I encounter so many situations that AP can't deal with, but never mind that, I can't even imagine how it would. For example, if there is a construction or bottleneck in a road with no controls and clear rules (i.e. no direction clearly has the right of way) drivers jut communicate and figure out which side goes next, what would AP do with that? Imagine if there are two Teslas on the opposite sides... LOL. Or roundabouts here in Europe during rush hour traffic in a big city when there almost is never just an "empty space" the car can pull into, you either elbow your way in, or wait for someone to let you in, or you will just park there until rush hour is over... Will AP be ever smart enough to interpret when another driver is giving you some signal that they are letting you in?
 

Rupe

Member
Jul 8, 2011
64
28
Ft Walton Beach FL
I have been driving the new plaid for about 2 months now and for the first time, I took it on a road trip. Austin to Dallas and back.

The car is comfortable and super quiet. Its range compared to our old P90D and P100D model X is nice. Its turbine-like acceleration is addictive.

I stopped in Waco on the way back, and the car charged up from around 60 miles left to 300 in about 30 min. It was actually ready to continue to my destination in about 15.

However....

Having put many miles on the old model s and x, there are a few things that I have come to realize that makes the car, IMHO, less safe.

1. The display and UI. On the old model attempting to change something on the screen was more straightforward due to the fixed and predictable position of the controls. The new UI has moving and swipeable things, which is fine on a tablet but takes your eyes off of the road in order to focus on what you are touching. Items on the screen that you would generally need to interact with are not strategically positioned to facilitate good ergonomics and minimum eye contact while the car is in motion. If you are in heavy traffic and you want to change something you need to be very careful. Sure, you can put the car in autopilot mode, but you should not have to. It's like the UI was created to be more of an entertainment system, but it's #1 priority should be for the driver to manage the car as easily as possible.

The old car had items that you would frequently use available to you in the main display. For example, a text message was displayed and could be responded to using the scroll wheel or a call answered. Nothing gets displayed in the instrument cluster display on the new UI, and response requires interaction with the touch screen in a position that has not been driver optimized.

2. The yoke. Much has been written about the yoke. Something that has not been discussed is the offset of the center of the yoke from the steering column. Couple this with a rectangular shape and you have a situation where depending on where you grab the yoke you get a different response, sort of an amplification effect. It's not confidence-inspiring at all. The best analogy I can come up with is taking the handlebars on a 10-speed bike and flipping them up and back.

It has been said that one of the purposes of the yoke was to allow a better view of the instrument cluster. I never had a problem seeing the old one, but the yoke now blocks the view of the touch screen lower-left corner. So now I not only need to take my eyes off of the road but I need to move my head to see part of the screen.

The biggest issue, however, is the touch controls on the yoke. Tesla, if you are listening, please change this. I will happily pay for a better setup.

If you insist on having capacitive touch buttons, then take it all the way and make them into tiny screens that I can configure to my liking. If not then please, put the turn signals on the corresponding side of the yoke. Left side to turn left and right side to turn right. Keep them away from the scroll wheels. Put the horn in the center below the airbag. Would you please bring back the ability to answer the phone or text to the scroll wheels? Make the scroll wheel so you can push it to the left or right with ease, maybe a bit of rubber in the center instead of a slick knurled ball.
I strongly agree with your 1st paragraph. From the driver’s perspective I have yet to see an advantage to changing the screen to horizontal, except that one doesn’t have to look further from the road when looking at the bottom of the screen. The ergonomics of the button selection is much more mature on the vertical screen.
 
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gadelrosario

Member
Mar 18, 2021
253
543
Los Angeles, CA
I have had my MS for about 3 weeks now and I agree with every single point you listed!

I have to look down to use the signal buttons every time and wheels do need to be redesigned, they either need to be raised up a little or something to be able to easily press right/left. I keep hitting signal buttons trying to do something with the left wheel.
I’ve been driving my MS since late June. Muscle memory has now set in for the turn signals. Everything that has to do with “lights” is on the left side of the yoke. Because I rarely use the horn or the windshield wipers, I have no muscle memory for those buttons. It has happened where I activated the wipers when I intended to use the horn and vice versa. That for me is the drawback. The workaround when I need to use the wipers is to use the voice command. Do we need to struggle with these things? Of course not. We need to however because we chose to buy the refreshed S.
 

Boza

2021 Model S LR+
Sep 24, 2021
64
58
Usa
I’ve been driving my MS since late June. Muscle memory has now set in for the turn signals. Everything that has to do with “lights” is on the left side of the yoke. Because I rarely use the horn or the windshield wipers, I have no muscle memory for those buttons. It has happened where I activated the wipers when I intended to use the horn and vice versa. That for me is the drawback. The workaround when I need to use the wipers is to use the voice command. Do we need to struggle with these things? Of course not. We need to however because we chose to buy the refreshed S.
“On the left side of the yoke” - when you drive straight only. When you turn they may be on the right side, upside-down
 
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