Please chime in if in agreement so that AP is not disabled...

[jdw]

I don't think "waiver" is the right term or method. I saw it more as certifying that the "operation and limitations of AP have been explained to me and I understand". I don't believe a company can use a user agreement to limit their liability and agree that acknowledging risk with a waiver might put Tesla in a worse position legally.

While you generally can't fix stupid, you might prevent at least some people from thinking that they had bought a magic self-driving car.

Even a training video with a sign-off that you had watched and understood would help with the PR. Tesla has a big target on their backs and any proactive efforts would help.

 

[Mark C]

I'm hoping it's like the Model S and stays an option. That way, the person who buys mine used can get the option turned on if they want it. I wouldn't care for it any more than I would pay extra for extra acceleration.

I really don't want to get used to my 3 doing most of my job and then me destroying our Silverado because I was used to the vehicle doing whatever task for me. Twice since I bought our Prius, I've locked my keys in my other car because I drive the Prius most of the time and never have to take the keys out of my pocket.

 

[thegruf]

one person killed apparently driving illegally in excess of the speed limit whilst not observing the road as specified by the manufacturer while the car was on AP in a sample of 130M miles driven or in excess of 3 million hours of driving (avg 40mph)

505 people killed in the USA by accidental discharge of a firearm (2013 data)

Avoiding the guns/no guns debate ...

All guns should be removed from sale and from owners until they are rendered impossible to accidentally discharge.

 

[Chopr147]

I have been taking accident reports from people for over 25 years now. It is very rare for someone to take responsibility and admit fault. Most just lie and many are very good at it. Others really believe the other driver is at fault even if they were the one that blew a stop sign, red light etc.....Blaming AP was inevitable the day it was announced. A cop taking the report will not know if AP was on or not but I believe Tesla can find out. I find it suspicious Tesla has not been able to get the information for that X that some how flipped. No deaths so the police dep't would have no problem giving Tesla access with owners permission. He has not given it.

 

[mikeash]

I posted this in the lawsuit thread but it's appropriate here too:

Woman who was driving while praying with her eyes closed hits house

Shall we have waivers and classes before we allow people to pray?

 

[Automaton]

They need to stop calling it "autopilot," as this is not its stated intent at this stage of development. It's more like cruise control with experimental attempts at braking and steering. If it's included free, I might try it as a gimmick. Other than that, I enjoy hands-on driving and would never pay for this in its current level of functionality

 

[JeffK]

They need to stop calling it "autopilot," as this is not its stated intent at this stage of development. It's more like cruise control with experimental attempts at braking and steering. If it's included free, I might try it as a gimmick. Other than that, I enjoy hands-on driving and would never pay for this in its current level of functionality

The current level of functionality is far more in line with the word "autopilot" than a fully autonomous car would be.

 

[alseTrick]

They need to stop calling it "autopilot," as this is not its stated intent at this stage of development. It's more like cruise control with experimental attempts at braking and steering. If it's included free, I might try it as a gimmick. Other than that, I enjoy hands-on driving and would never pay for this in its current level of functionality

Uh, that's exactly what autopilot is.

 

[Reeler]

All AP version are going to be in perpetual beta. It's a learning system.

It is a learning system, but I don't think they can ever get blind spot, detecting auto park situations or lane keeping working well enough to exit beta. In beta, we are supposed to forgive poor operation, but we presume that those features will eventually work most all of the time. With the AP 1.0 sensor suite, I don't think that is possible.

I welcome improvement, but as a purchaser, I expect things to function as marketed in the sales pitch. Without better sensors, they never will be that useful in the real world.

 

[Hitman007]

My wife's new Honda Pilot Elite has adaptive cruise with Lane Keeping Assist where you can take your hands off the wheel and it will drive itself and stay between the lines on the road. Not as robust as Teslas system but still could be abused by getting complacent whole driving. Yet I hear nothing about people crashing Hondas....

 

[idoco]

If Tesla AP is Beta WTH is this! Oh wait...they're not labeled Beta so it's ok...

 

[idoco]

Or these "non-beta/mature" products...

Testing (Semi) Autonomous Cars With Tesla, Cadillac, Hyundai, and Mercedes - Motor Trend

 

[Genshi]

They need to stop calling it "autopilot," as this is not its stated intent at this stage of development. It's more like cruise control with experimental attempts at braking and steering. If it's included free, I might try it as a gimmick. Other than that, I enjoy hands-on driving and would never pay for this in its current level of functionality

Uh, that's exactly what autopilot is.

That's sort of the rub though, isn't it? Autopilot, as defined by aviation et al would mean this is a true example of autopilot. But for the general public, and that is target demographic for this product, autopilot is construed as synonym for autonomous. What it allows one to do makes it FEEL more complete than it really is, in spite of all the verbal/written warnings. And the general public relies on feelings and the press for most of their conclusions, unless the subject in question happens to be in an arena they're educated in. And that's where the issue is. Calling it autopilot conveys something very different to the average American than it does to those of us in TMC or folks in Aviation.

So I stand with Automaton in this case... at this juncture, as it currently exists, I'd only use it if it were free. Granted I don't have a commute that would make significant use of autopilot anyway, but I also don't enjoy hands on driving all that much and I'd love to have something take over for me. Automaton's point appeared to be that it may fit the technical definition of Autopilot, but calling it that leads an average driver to overly optimistic conclusions about its capabilities. I think that's an accurate assessment.

 

[crackers8199]

I really don't want to get used to my 3 doing most of my job and then me destroying our Silverado because I was used to the vehicle doing whatever task for me. Twice since I bought our Prius, I've locked my keys in my other car because I drive the Prius most of the time and never have to take the keys out of my pocket.

i've done the same thing with my volt and my older jeep cherokee...but the idea that you might forget how to do something because the tesla does it for you most of the time seems silly to me. you'd know you're driving a vehicle that doesn't have AP, no? why would you expect it to do something it never does?

something small like leaving the keys in the car is one thing, but the difference in driving a tesla vs any other vehicle is going to be quite obvious, IMO...

 

[DrGuest]

Call me unusual, I love AP but I have one or two hands on the steering wheel at all times and use it only on boring, straight sections of freeway driving. I hold the wheel firmly when passing cars, trucks, cross an overpass and around curves. I use AP to reduce fatigue and not for multi-tasking. In Montana we have lots of conditions that I choose to remain in control for, curves that were never made to go 81 mph, poor painted lines, gravel roads, intersections without stop signs. I have a friend who got hit by a deer and was very happy that AP kept him straight and in his lane till he was able to choose to pull over. Falling asleep at the wheel briefly would be safer with AP also. I follow what Tesla told me about how to use AP correctly and ignore the viral videos that show dangerous and risky driving behaviors while using AP. As long as I consciously use AP to reduce fatigue instead of using it for multitasking, I feel safer and grateful for the Driver"s Assisted features included in the AP package to date.

 

[Automaton]

But for the general public, and that is target demographic for this product, autopilot is construed as synonym for autonomous.

Automaton's point appeared to be that it may fit the technical definition of Autopilot, but calling it that leads an average driver to overly optimistic conclusions about its capabilities. I think that's an accurate assessment.

Exactly.

 

[JeffK]

100% of newborns and 92.76% of dogs don't understand the word autopilot either. However, the people who we should poll are actual Tesla owners with autopilot enabled cars.

I'd venture to bet you'll find the majority do understand it better than the general public. It's not terribly important that non-owners understand the capabilities unless they find themselves behind the wheel without training on how the car functions. In addition we need lawmakers, regulating bodies, and authorities to fully understand the capabilities. I'm not too worried about some guy with a mullet and a broken water heater.

It sounds like the state trooper involved in the Montana crash understood autopilot enough to write a citation for careless driving haha.

 

[Genshi]

100% of newborns and 92.76% of dogs don't understand the word autopilot either. However, the people who we should poll are actual Tesla owners with autopilot enabled cars.

I'd venture to bet you'll find the majority do understand it better than the general public. It's not terribly important that non-owners understand the capabilities unless they find themselves behind the wheel without training on how the car functions. In addition we need lawmakers, regulating bodies, and authorities to fully understand the capabilities. I'm not too worried about some guy with a mullet and a broken water heater.

It sounds like the state trooper involved in the Montana crash understood autopilot enough to write a citation for careless driving haha.

You're not wrong. I suppose the larger theoretical issue is one of taking responsibility for one's actions... which even Tesla owners who understand Autopilot may be loathe to do. Or FULLY comprehending AP, which even a lot of Tesla owners don't or won't. Particularly once the Model ≡ rolls out.

Understanding that it auto-brakes, but not with cross traffic, or only with cross traffic of a certain variety (eg: not trucks) or only cross traffic of a certain variety when the sun isn't in your eyes... stuff like that. It's a LOT to keep track of. Particularly when you're on the road semi-driving and/or things are being updated over the air on occasion. I can't confidently say I understand it, and I've been reading/researching it since I reserved my Model ≡. And uhh... I may have a Tesla problem <pronounced: ob-sesh-on>, so I've spent a lot of time trying to understand Tesla, AP, et al.

PS: I have a mullet and a broken water heater. (okay fine I'm full of peaches'n'cream (self censor!) and I'm having fun with you. I have a beard and a broken computer. Close?)

 

[Automaton]

It's not terribly important that non-owners understand the capabilities unless they find themselves behind the wheel without training on how the car functions. In addition we need lawmakers, regulating bodies, and authorities to fully understand the capabilities. I'm not too worried about some guy with a mullet and a broken water heater.

Too bad so sad if they can't figure it out isn't really a solution, and it's bad business. The first rule of product design is don't make the customer think. Besides that, the extent to which Tesla makes AP idiotproof covers their ass against lawsuits.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

It is a learning system, but I don't think they can ever get blind spot, detecting auto park situations or lane keeping working well enough to exit beta. In beta, we are supposed to forgive poor operation, but we presume that those features will eventually work most all of the time. With the AP 1.0 sensor suite, I don't think that is possible.

I welcome improvement, but as a purchaser, I expect things to function as marketed in the sales pitch. Without better sensors, they never will be that useful in the real world.

Is blind spot monitoring in beta? I know they now call it side monitoring, but it used to be called blindspot monitoring. I don't believe that specific component has ever been in beta. At least not since the early days of it.

I say that to illustrate that with Tesla the term beta doesn't seem to have any reflection on how well it works. But, when it says beta it means they're going to refine the software elements of it, and add things to it. They're also going to address user interface issues (like they did with summons).

With auto park there is a chance for improvements hence the beta
With lane-steering there are continual improvements hence the beta

With blindspot monitoring right now? Nah, that sucks and it will always suck till version 2 of the hardware.

Aside from what we call things you are right in that these things really won't work well until the next hardware revision of them. I would argue that lane-keeping and collision avoidance will likely require multiple hardware rev's to even reach a 99% mark.