Please help me justify buying an X!

[MrBadger]

Sorry, I have a different view, as I am always lecturing to my rich-barsteward-mates

If you can afford it you should be doing it NOW. The planet won't wait. Move your Diesel on to someone less fortunate who can make use of it (your old diesel is most likely much cleaner than their VERY old diesel), get the EV and then you will also be moving that on (sooner than if you wait-to-buy) which will also help, over time.

Moving a diesel on will more likely move it into an urban environment where it will contribute to health problems. I don’t buy the newer diesel replacing the old diesel bit unless you can guarantee that it is replacing an old banger that is being scrapped and there is no evidence of this and is not a clear cut argument anyway (not all polluting cars pollute equally) - often a second hand car will simply add to the pool of inappropriate cars in inappropriate places and all that nice new car, EV or otherwise has done is add to the problem.

Scrapping it is best, followed by making sure it is owned by someone who is aware of its pros and cons and uses it as responsibly as they possibly can. Ie keeping it out of urban environments so the short term health issues will be confined to the users - trust me, you don’t want to be inside or behind a diesel shortly after it starts - I’ve done the AQ measurements.

Some modern diesels are pretty good for a short period of time, then they go bad, again I’ve taken the measurements. There are only one place that a diesel should be that is on a scrap heap but being well away from
populated areas is probably best of a bad alternative set of options.

But it’s not a perfect world and economics play a short term role. I personally say for each new car an old one should be scrapped and parts recycled. But my wife would think differently so our diesel will probably (unless it is bought by someone to stripped for parts - worth more than the complete price) be added back into the pool of inappropriate cars in inappropriate places - guilty as charged but not my choice but it was my choice to regularly service it and as long is you don’t floor it or sit behind it for 10 minutes after it’s started or sit inside or be around it when it’s idling, it’s no worse than a diesel a fraction if it’s age - again, I’ve done the measurements.

Personally I would turn the EV grant into a 0 emission scrappage grant, amount paid to be based upon environmental impact the scrapped car has. 0 emission wouldn’t also mean to purchase a new vehicle, it could also be put towards other 0/low emission transport methods, such as bikes or low emission mass transport fares. That would incentivise people to get rid of the most environmentally unfriendly cars and promote a reduction or at worse some equilibrium to amount of car ownership.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I personally say for each new car an old one should be scrapped and parts recycled

That's what happens isn't it? You buy a new one, sell your old one, that trickles down to someone who has had to scrap theirs and is replacing it with "something newer"

Whilst you can't guarantee that each "swap" is for a cleaner vehicle, overall, all the way down the ownership-tree, that is the case.

Notwithstanding that VW et al lied and cheated and their emissions may be dreadful ... but we-are-where-we-are on that.

Thus I would like anyone who can afford it to buy an EV and prompt that cascade-trickle-down. Whilst it might be better for a Townie to do that (tail-pipe emissions move out-of-town) ... the grant is the same for all, in that regard. Towns are taking care of the problem with emission-based penalises to keep the polluters out-of-town - Some pollution-hotspot Towns in EU require a "clean emissions sticker" for cars to enter at all. Plenty of towns here talking of blanket bans "soon", so that is going to fix that problem (yeah, we can argue about best-route to getting there ... Governments not famous for making consistently right-choices ..)

crappage grant, amount paid to be based upon environmental impact the scrapped car has

I'd be happy with that too. The current system of subsidising purchase of EV is helping the wealthy ... the poorest in society can only afford to drive the filthiest cars and they are going to get stung with ever increasing penalty-charges for dirty-diesels. Scrappage seemed to be popular in the last recession (that was to help the Automotive industry ... but maybe proved that it would work for EV adoption too), but someone at the bottom of the food-chain is not going to be able to afford to replace scrapped-old-banger with new EV ... thus I suppose the only way is to facilitate adding EVs at the top of the chain. Norway, for example, has 0% VAT on EVs (they have had that for nearly 2 decades I think ... and they are at 50% new cars EVs now ... different marketplace of course, but shows what can be done)

 

[MrBadger]

Around 8 million extra licensed vehicles on the roads in last 20 years and growing, albeit slowing, 3 million in last 10. In that time, petrol has actually decreased by nearly 2 million, whilst diesel accounted for nearly 10 million extra. So the cars disappearing are potentially less harmful petrol cars and no evidence of diesels being scrapped at the same rate as new cars being purchased.

So I don't buy the new car causing a dirty car being scrapped argument all the while that diesels are still increasing their proportion of cars on the road and petrol cars decreasing in absolute numbers. The only thing that will convince me is when both petrol and diesel numbers decrease at a similar or higher rate than 0 emission vehicles are added. Then I think we can say that an inappropriate car has ended up in an appropriate place - the scrap heap.

imho.