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My SA mentioned that the Ultra White is made from vegetable oil, so the "still uses petroleum" might not be true. No confirmation of that on the website that I can find anywhere. Either way leather processing is an environmental detriment, and raising cattle takes a lot of energy, so this probably is on mission for Tesla. It might turn off some buyers. I know at least one person that got very excited about this and hopes it's available for their Model 3 though.
Tesla seems to be the only EV in the Finnish market with a range of >400 km. It all depends on your priorities.Tesla seems to be the only car in the Finnish market, which doesn't offer leather seats as an option.
Even the cheapest Romanian Dacia has leather seats option
TSLA on the rise today after the "pleather" announcement. Please, continue to tell us how you feel.
Such a "meh" thread. I have the vegan seats and there awesome...whatev
I'd be quite happy with "pleather" if it looks and feels as good, and it's more durable than the real stuff. I have tan leather, and find that you have to be pretty careful not to scuff it.
This might be like the cork/cap debate with wine bottles. For a long time any decent quality wine was expected to have a cork, despite the fact that caps do a much better job. Slowly common sense and logic have sunk in and caps are more common.
Same with bottled versus canned beer; canned preserves the beer better but people think it tastes better out of a bottle because of the opening. It's all a matter of opinion.
I'm sure Tesla won't miss the "I only buy cars with true leather interiors" folks if they decide to jump ship.
CameronB
Member
I also agree with this. I had had leather in 5 of my last 6 cars. The car I didn't have leather in had cloth and I found that I had all kinds of static shock in that car. It was miserable. So I declared never cloth seats again - and I've been leather ever since...until I ordered my Model S with the Ultrawhite seats. I loved the "look" of the UW from the beginning, but something about getting "pleather" seats in a ~$100K car seemed "wrong". It's that knee-jerk reaction (plus long ingrained assumptions about what is "luxury" or "high end") like @Petra says.
But now that I have the car and the "vegan leather" (yes, oxymoronic, but you have to hand it to the marketing department...sounds more lux than "pleather")...I love the seats! And many people getting into the car for the first time have remarked "these seats are really comfortable" and I've gotten a lot of "looks great" comments. Some people ask if it's hard to keep clean - but that's based on the fact that they are super white ("Ultra white" hahaha). I don't honestly know if people know if they are or are not leather. No one has asked! I assume they assume it IS leather. Highly processed leather is probably what they think. If they asked, I'd tell them, but they don't ask and they don't seem to care - they just keep commenting how great they look and how great they feel.
jelloslug
Active Member
I agree. I doubt many people would know they aren't leather unless you tell them otherwise. Many people still refer to them as the "white leather" seats. I originally delayed my order for several reasons, one of which was that I wanted the premium ultra white seats. I missed getting them by a week as they came out for non-performance cars the week my car was in pre-production. I like my grey leather next gen seats but would've liked those premium ultra white seats even more!
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Canuck
Well-Known Member
Sorry to break the news to you but one person is not the market. I think far more people are more concerned about having numerous banks of maintained fast chargers so you can actually take road trips in the vehicle than sitting on a dead animal's skin in those vehicles you name and going on Plugshare to try to find a Chademo or CCS. There's no way in 5 year's time any of those automakers will have fast chargers like Tesla when to date they haven't even pulled one single permit among them. But you'll get leather -- and the market is speaking and it's all about leather!
I bet when it comes time you will be buying another Tesla and you will be pleasantly surprised with the quality of the fake leather. But if you don't, Tesla won't miss you and its market share will do just fine without you.
Right -- it's doing exactly what you said it would...
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All protein originates from plants, it's not like cows create protein. It's the microbiota in their gut. Anyways, I just like the way a good steak tastes, but it's definitely not healthy for me =) So if all that meat has made you any smarter, you'll know it's not good for you
whttiger25
Member
Hmm....new premium has sub/zero package, ultra hi fi, and remaining premium package features, basically air filters, so I wouldn't say it "has almost nothing". Sub zero and ultra hi-fi would be $3500 under the previous paradigm, leaving $1500 for air filter systems. I think it's pretty equivalent, as long as you want everything in the package. Also fairly easy to pass on especially with the ability to upgrade sound after market. The real story is how much is now included in the base price, power liftgate and fog and cornering lights. You really need to want everything in the premium package for it to be worth it. It does suck for those who live in cold climates and can no longer order the sub zero package a la carte.Super dumb move, along with the confusing new 'premium' which costs more and has almost nothing...everything was either made standard or was leather and no longer available.
Also, ironically the vinyl is made with oil while the cowhide is indefinitely sustainable!
Ultimately, it's Tesla's decision, and while I won't be buying another one now, maybe they can make it up with greeny sales. I suspect the market will speak.
That's the point. 5k for heated wipers and a pretend cabin filter and pretend decent stereo isn't going to find many takers...which makes it a fail.
Margin is way higher on well-optioned cars, so a result where most buyers skip the option is a noob f'up.
That is true. There are different grades of leather whether it's a thicker hide or not.
IdaX
Member
I love meat, and I also love my white pleather Tesla seats. Is that so wrong?
ahkahn
Active Member
Lots of misinformation in this thread, as well as a lot of misconceptions. I am in the leather/vinyl/upholstery supply distribution business. My company is a supplier to the automotive aftermarket, marine, aircraft, and commercial markets. I grew up around fabrics and vinyls, and I know them very well.
I'm not here to change anybody's minds, but Tesla is spot on with this change.
First of all, let's talk about leather vs. vinyl. Vinyl technology has come a long way over the last 50 years, 25 years, and 10 years due to formulations, topcoats, and fabric backings. Over the last 10 years, vinyl technology has come so far that I could show you samples of vinyl and samples of genuine leather and you would swear the vinyl is genuine leather and genuine leather is really vinyl. Durability? You'd never believe how durable vinyl is today. Much more so than genuine leather, hands down. I could show you test after test that shows that on both the Martindale and Wyzenbeek durability tests an average vinyl would consistently beat a good leather.
Types of vinyl? Yes, there are now different types of vinyl. The Ultra white seats (which I have) are actually not your traditional PVC vinyl. They are actually Ultraleather, made by Ultrafabrics. This is a very high-end polyurethane-based vinyl. This is the top-of-the-line material on the market today. It is used in high-end spas, high-end custom cars, yachts, cruise ships, and many other high-traffic luxurious applications. You're lucky to be able to get a material this nice OEM in a vehicle. This stuff retails around $150/yard, and the street price is around $70/yard or so. It passes over 400,000 double rubs on the Wyzenbeek abrasion test. A good quality leather MAY pass around 25,000-50,000 (which is considered Heavy-Duty). Yes, that's a huge difference. Even a mediocre PVC vinyl will go 75,000 double rubs on a Wyzenbeek test. FYI- a double rub is denim material rubbed up and down the material (that's one double-rub). It simulates your butt sliding across the material.
So, the "vegan" aspect is a marketing move, but this is definitely a durability move. Leather does NOT hold up. Check out your leather seats in any other car you own, after about 75,000 miles, do you see the left side of the seat wearing (cracking, wrinkling, etc)? I guarantee you that the Ultraleather interior, as well as a standard PVC vinyl interior, will hold up much longer. If Tesla is going for the million mile mark on these cars, which they've said they are, this is clearly why they're making this move.
I'm happy to take any questions on interior components....
I'm not here to change anybody's minds, but Tesla is spot on with this change.
First of all, let's talk about leather vs. vinyl. Vinyl technology has come a long way over the last 50 years, 25 years, and 10 years due to formulations, topcoats, and fabric backings. Over the last 10 years, vinyl technology has come so far that I could show you samples of vinyl and samples of genuine leather and you would swear the vinyl is genuine leather and genuine leather is really vinyl. Durability? You'd never believe how durable vinyl is today. Much more so than genuine leather, hands down. I could show you test after test that shows that on both the Martindale and Wyzenbeek durability tests an average vinyl would consistently beat a good leather.
Types of vinyl? Yes, there are now different types of vinyl. The Ultra white seats (which I have) are actually not your traditional PVC vinyl. They are actually Ultraleather, made by Ultrafabrics. This is a very high-end polyurethane-based vinyl. This is the top-of-the-line material on the market today. It is used in high-end spas, high-end custom cars, yachts, cruise ships, and many other high-traffic luxurious applications. You're lucky to be able to get a material this nice OEM in a vehicle. This stuff retails around $150/yard, and the street price is around $70/yard or so. It passes over 400,000 double rubs on the Wyzenbeek abrasion test. A good quality leather MAY pass around 25,000-50,000 (which is considered Heavy-Duty). Yes, that's a huge difference. Even a mediocre PVC vinyl will go 75,000 double rubs on a Wyzenbeek test. FYI- a double rub is denim material rubbed up and down the material (that's one double-rub). It simulates your butt sliding across the material.
So, the "vegan" aspect is a marketing move, but this is definitely a durability move. Leather does NOT hold up. Check out your leather seats in any other car you own, after about 75,000 miles, do you see the left side of the seat wearing (cracking, wrinkling, etc)? I guarantee you that the Ultraleather interior, as well as a standard PVC vinyl interior, will hold up much longer. If Tesla is going for the million mile mark on these cars, which they've said they are, this is clearly why they're making this move.
I'm happy to take any questions on interior components....
I'm kind of afraid that the Model S/X could turn into a very generic model car. Choice A or B and no real customizing. Ultimately while that may be favorable to push more cars out of the production line faster, I don't think it does anything for making the S/X special and unique, which in part from the electronics and battery (agreeably a big part of the car) is what keeps the car in the luxury class IMO. I would have thought they wanted to retain the uniqueness of their two larger margin vehicles and don't see this shift in production line minimization as being a necessity. Don't they have separate lines and work crews for each vehicle? Why sacrifice the S/X for mass producing the Model 3? If we ever get to FSD in cars in general, and you don't even own a car but call one, who the heck cares I guess what kind of car you are riding in.
Canuck
Well-Known Member
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