Plug and 100Amp line sticker shock

[sublimaze1]

That depends on what state you want to get married in.:wink:

<rimshot> - ba-dump-bump.

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Update to the previous post:
My Mr.Electric electrician contacted me back today with a revised estimate that is much more palatable, about $2280. About $400 more than my previous lowest estimate, about $200 less than my second estimate, but I'm going to go with them for a couple of reasons:
1)The close SolarCity oversight to assure installation is up to code and their standards which, I'm confident, were part of the deal with Tesla
2)The professionalism of Mr.Electric in the matter.
3)The installation plan seems superior to the others--it involves a new meter box with a direct dedicated line to my garage and a new subpanel for the charger and my NEMA 14-50 instead of going directly from my current electrical panel as the other installers had suggested.
4)Included in this estimate was a code inspection--being in a rural area this wasn't mandated, but apparently the SolarCity agreement requires it, so I will be glad to have that reassurance.
5)This estimate includes the actual hookup of the HPC, the other ones did not specify that and I have a feeling they would charge me for the time, at a minimum, to do it--increasing the base estimate a bit.

Hope to schedule the hookup within the next 2 weeks.:smile:

Okay - now it makes sense. I was wondering how those numbers crunched, but after your flickr site, I see all the work that was done and what it entailed. Probably spot on, in terms of cost and that massive run of 6-3 Romex. That was a chunk of change.

Thankfully, I had a comparitively shorter run, had the unfinished attic above the garage and a spot where I wanted the outlet which was very easy to access.

I should post pictures. It is on a DoubleD 50 amp breaker in my main box (all the slots are filled now) but I feel that I am fine there (we have an aux box with a few poles left, should I add that jacuzzi or whatever.

Looks good, Evan. Looks darn good ....

 

[Lloyd]

It's an interesting idea, and considering what we pay for lawn mowing could, potentially, be economical for us. That said, we live on 5.5 acres of some pretty variable terrain that I think would require a team of electric mower bots to cover!


I have one, works great. Takes a little tweaking and time to set it up. I have about 1/2 acre of grass, but they claim it will handle up to three.

 

[efusco]

&lt;rimshot&gt; - ba-dump-bump.

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Looks good, Evan. Looks darn good ....

Thanks!

Evan, Via Tapatalk

 

[Lloyd]

I decided to add an HPWC to the other side of my garage last weekend. So 45 feet of 1" conduit to a Hubbell disconnect. I decided that I wanted a shutoff for safety since the breaker was 40+ feet away. $350 for the disconnect and there are cheaper, but it is the best for this application. A short flexible concuit will extend from the bottom of the disconnect to the HPWC (when it is available) which will be centered between the bays. #4 wire used, and I pulled a neutral as well in case I need it later.

 

[ElSupreme]

I decided to add an HPWC to the other side of my garage last weekend. So 45 feet of 1" conduit to a Hubbell disconnect. I decided that I wanted a shutoff for safety since the breaker was 40+ feet away. $350 for the disconnect and there are cheaper, but it is the best for this application. A short flexible concuit will extend from the bottom of the disconnect to the HPWC (when it is available) which will be centered between the bays. #4 wire used, and I pulled a neutral as well in case I need it later.

View attachment 10364

Looks good! :biggrin:

 

[FlasherZ]

Very nice. I have a small 4-breaker, 100A panel about 4' above the spot for my HPWC. One feeds a 14-50 in bay #2 and the other will feed the HPWC in bay #1.

 

[Cottonwood]

I decided to add an HPWC to the other side of my garage last weekend. So 45 feet of 1" conduit to a Hubbell disconnect. I decided that I wanted a shutoff for safety since the breaker was 40+ feet away. $350 for the disconnect and there are cheaper, but it is the best for this application. A short flexible concuit will extend from the bottom of the disconnect to the HPWC (when it is available) which will be centered between the bays. #4 wire used, and I pulled a neutral as well in case I need it later.

Great idea! Also, the contacts on the disconnect are also the perfect place to step down a few wire sizes if you want to install a 6-50, or because you have a neutral, a 14-50 while you wait for the HPWC.

 

[xAGENTx]

Hi guys, quick question that I think I know the answer to. My electrician is installinf a NEMA 14-50 but running it off of a 100amp wire/breaker. I know that I won't be able to utilize all of the juice but just want to make sure there is no risk to damaging the car. Thanks for the info!!

 

[Craig-Tx]

Hi guys, quick question that I think I know the answer to. My electrician is installinf a NEMA 14-50 but running it off of a 100amp wire/breaker. I know that I won't be able to utilize all of the juice but just want to make sure there is no risk to damaging the car. Thanks for the info!!

Your electrician should have his license revoked.
Seriously, The 14-50 should at a max have a 50 amp breaker.
Also, What gauge of wire was used? What type? Most 14-50 plugs I've seen would only accept a 4 AWG at the largest, which even if running THHN in a conduit can only handle 95 amps. And that is using the 90 degree rating. I doubt every contact is rated for 90 degrees.

100 amp breaker is NOT providing any protection.

I hope he pulled a permit and will have an inspector verify all the work. This would NOT pass an inspection.

 

[Rocky_H]

Your electrician should have his license revoked.

Absolutely! That is a blatant violation of national electric code and is an illegal install. The original concern mentioned was for the car. The car probably won't care, but this is a serious fire danger for your house.

 

[Craig-Tx]

If you want to challenge the electrician.
National Electrical Code (NEC) Article 210.21(B)(1)
"Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit."

Rating of the branch circuit is defined by the over current protection device (breaker). So by putting in a 100 Amp breaker, the receptacle must be rated to at least 100 amps. A NEMA 14-50 is NOT.

 

[Rocky_H]

We haven't mentioned why the code is this way. There are potential cases where you may be allowed to have a breaker lower than the outlet, like a 14-50 outlet on a 40A breaker. That is on the overprotective side, where it may flip too soon. Here's the problem with the breaker higher than the outlet: If something goes wrong or shorts at the outlet side, the current may start rising to 70, 80, 90 amps, and the 100A breaker is happily whistling Dixie, thinking nothing is wrong, while the wires or outlet are melting and starting a fire in your wall.

 

[timpierc]

We haven't mentioned why the code is this way. There are potential cases where you may be allowed to have a breaker lower than the outlet, like a 14-50 outlet on a 40A breaker. That is on the overprotective side, where it may flip too soon. Here's the problem with the breaker higher than the outlet: If something goes wrong or shorts at the outlet side, the current may start rising to 70, 80, 90 amps, and the 100A breaker is happily whistling Dixie, thinking nothing is wrong, while the wires or outlet are melting and starting a fire in your wall.

This is exactly what I did with my Schneider Electric EVSE. Even though it said to hardwire into the panel, I decided to have a NEMA 14-50 installed to make the garage "future proof". I had the electrician install the NEMA 14-50 to be used exactly like a NEMA-14-50 (correct wire gauge, ect.), but then put in a 40 amp breaker, which is what the Schneider Electric manual called for. I then used an oven 14-50 plug and wired the EVSE with that, and plugged it into the outlet. Whenever we move, or I get an electric car that has a 10kw charger, then I'll swap out the breaker for a 50 amp.

I agree the breaker is the weak point, and you never want to oversize it to the expect load, or especially the wire gauge rating.

 

[Rocky_H]

This is exactly what I did with my Schneider Electric EVSE. Even though it said to hardwire into the panel, I decided to have a NEMA 14-50 installed to make the garage "future proof". I had the electrician install the NEMA 14-50 to be used exactly like a NEMA-14-50 (correct wire gauge, ect.), but then put in a 40 amp breaker, which is what the Schneider Electric manual called for. I then used an oven 14-50 plug and wired the EVSE with that, and plugged it into the outlet. Whenever we move, or I get an electric car that has a 10kw charger, then I'll swap out the breaker for a 50 amp.

I agree the breaker is the weak point, and you never want to oversize it to the expect load, or especially the wire gauge rating.

You don't specifically mention this, but your Schneider EVSE is officially listed as a 40A device right? If so, then yes, you would be correctly using that exception in the NEC. The exception is there because there is no 40A outlet type. So if you have a 40A appliance, it can use a 50A outlet type, but the breaker does need to match the 40A rating of the appliance.

 

[timpierc]

You don't specifically mention this, but your Schneider EVSE is officially listed as a 40A device right? If so, then yes, you would be correctly using that exception in the NEC. The exception is there because there is no 40A outlet type. So if you have a 40A appliance, it can use a 50A outlet type, but the breaker does need to match the 40A rating of the appliance.

The manual says it's 30 amps continuous output, but it also says to use a two pole, 40 amp breaker for the install. So not sure if that's still code compliant or not since there is an almost 20 amp difference, but IDK either way haha. Given the wire gauges are oversized, and the breaker is correct for the EVSE at this time, I'm not worried about burning the house down. I just know when I move, the NEMA 14-50 outlet will be code compliant once I replace the 40 amp breaker with the 50 amp breaker, and that's all that matters .

 

[Craig-Tx]

The manual says it's 30 amps continuous output, but it also says to use a two pole, 40 amp breaker for the install. So not sure if that's still code compliant or not since there is an almost 20 amp difference, but IDK either way haha. Given the wire gauges are oversized, and the breaker is correct for the EVSE at this time, I'm not worried about burning the house down. I just know when I move, the NEMA 14-50 outlet will be code compliant once I replace the 40 amp breaker with the 50 amp breaker, and that's all that matters .

This is correct. An EVSE is considered a "Continuous Load" and therefore the circuit must be sized at at least 125% of the continuous load. For a 30 Amp continuous load, the circuit must be sized to at least 37.5 amps. (40 amp). That is what defines the circuit size to be 40 amps. (And of course it helps that the device specifically states to use a 40 amp circuit.) Once the circuit is defined to be 40 amps, EVERY other part of the circuit, (wire, plugs, etc.) must be rated for AT LEAST 40 amps.

The 125% sizing is because, you never want more than an 80% load on a circuit for a continuous time. This will leave a bit of room for transients (such as starting currents, etc.)

Sizing up the conductors, etc. for a proper 50 amp circuit once the EVSE is unplugged, was a good idea. Like you said, you can in the future simply swap the 40 amp breaker for a 50 and you're set with a standard NEMA 14-50.

The one part of the code you MAY have violated is the plug on the Schneider. Per NEC Article 625 (don't remember section,) EVSE equipment can at most have a 12" cord to a plug. Anything longer is a violation. *My belief* is that this requirement is intended for portable equipment. Part of the EVSE is GFCI protection. They obviously want to keep the GFCI protection as close to the power source as possible.

Another possible violation, (but unsure) is that there may be a requirement that if equipment is specifically designed for hard wire, (no plug) there may be a requirement to hard wire.