TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

plugging-in without permission

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by DrTaras, Nov 18, 2011.

  1. DrTaras

    DrTaras R254->R725->S1364-->X769

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,247
    Location:
    Woodland Hills, CA
    My friend owns a business that has an outlet on the back side of the building. He noticed his electric usage increase and suspected that someone was plugging in.
    I've inquired if it was an EV or some other electric user, but he's still trying to snoop it out.
    In the mean time, he put a lock over the outlet.
    The other day he found this note:
    Steeling Electricity.JPG
    He wants to know if he's a bad guy? :eek:
    I told him, one day there will be wireless charging so he'll have to probably investigate getting a WiFi-like pass code for his electricity then!
     
  2. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    15,914
    Location:
    Stanford, California
    Nope, though I might have put a cheap camera in place first if I were really curious. The note writer goes to the same church as your friend?? No guaranty he was using the outlet to charge a car. Instead of being indignant, the note writer could have simply have asked for permission.

    Btw, this has little to do with wireless charging so it's getting moved.
     
  3. Mycroft

    Mycroft Life happens

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,592
    Location:
    Tacoma, WA
    I don't see how protecting property from theft would be considered "petty". But then, I believe in the rule of law and property rights. I doubt the letter writer goes to church - they're more likely trying to be sarcastic.

    The electricity vampire was more likely an RV than an EV.
     
  4. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,852
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    If they managed to draw enough power to raise suspicions, then they were doing it a lot. No way your friend is the bad guy here - they clearly should have asked for permission. And offered to pay.

    If the guy did it once, was desperate for power because he was stranded, and couldn't find the owner... then I'd have a lot more sympathy.
     
  5. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    4,590
    Location:
    Nixa, Missouri, United States
    I can think of few ways that EV drivers could stir anger than by stealing electricity without permission and without reimbursement. EVs are new, poorly understood by many and if we go around stealing electricity without permission it will result in a lot of negative press. I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up with someone arrested and making the press for that even. We need to be upstanding citizens, paying a bit more than the owner's cost for any electricity used. Going out of our way to explain our vehicles and what we're doing. How long do you think people would put up with folks driving up and stealing gasoliine if we all kept a storage tank at our home or business?
     
  6. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
    Decades ago my father's business had found that the faucet in the planter on the front of his building was being used at night by the local cardboard collector. He would soak the truckload of cardboard to increase the weight on the drive up scale.

    Dad put a lock on the faucet.
     
  7. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    11,923
    Your friend is not at all in the wrong IMO. Where's everyone getting something about church though?
     
  8. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,885
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    One if the businesses close to me has a homeless person that sleeps next to an outside power outlet at his business as they plug in an electric heater and run it all night long. They are gone before the business opens in the morning. Perhaps you were dealing with a similiar situation. Sounds like it from the tone of the note.
     
  9. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    15,914
    Location:
    Stanford, California
    The line about "tithing".
     
  10. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,252
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    I think a lot of people have this (mis) conception that electricity is basically free. They leave lights turned on when leaving their house, and they don't worry about how much it might cost someone (including themselves) to leave running for hours or days. The fact that most electricity is billed monthly, not "as you go" sort-of disconnects people from the thought that "one little use" actually amounts to something.

    I suppose you could compare this to the idea of going into a place of business and using the restroom without buying something, or even using a drinking fountain at a public park. Someone is paying for it. The question is: do you assume an unlocked outlet or faucet is left for public use?
    Regardless if the cost of the power provided was of concern, there is also the issue that someone was trespassing on private property, right?
     
  11. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,047
    Definitely agree. At the very least permission should be asked. And in most cases the cost would just be a couple dollars at a time so most people won't bother to charge for it if infrequent.
     
  12. richkae

    richkae VIN587

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,917
    #12 richkae, Nov 18, 2011
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
    Even more amazing is that many people can not connect the dots on their driving and the cost of gasoline. If you fill the car up with gasoline for $80 every week, its just another weekly expense they dont understand.
    I knew someone who would spend an hour of driving ( half our each way ) to save $5 on a purchase. The hour of driving was about 3 gallons of gas, and that gas cost her more than double the $5 she saved.
    I've always wanted to put a smart sign on the highway into Seattle with a camera and an automated system that would identify vehicles.
    The sign would say: "You in the Grand Cherokee, you will spend $4 on gasoline to drive the 14 miles to downtown Seattle" right next to where it tells you how many minutes.
    I want similar technology on light switches for my kids: A little LCD that tells you how much the last 24 hours of this light switch being on cost us ( yes I know that the device is likely more costly than it is worth, its just an illustration ).

    Back to the topic: The homeless person with the electric heater seems like a very probable source of the note.
     
  13. strider

    strider Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2010
    Messages:
    2,920
    Location:
    NE Oklahoma
    I agree. I highly doubt this is an EV - homeless person or transient in an RV most likely. Especially after the water comment.
     
  14. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,252
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    YES! I see that sort of thing all the time.
    I feel sorry for the pizza delivery person who buys their own gas, and doesn't realize that their salary and tips barely covers it.

    I had some friends that would drive to another town to buy gas that was "the cheapest in the area" because they could save a few cents per gallon.
    Then they realized that they spent more on extra gas to get to/from the cheaper gas, and stopped bothering.
     
  15. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2009
    Messages:
    1,851
    Location:
    Right behind you...
    working.png
    What I am thinking.
     
  16. richkae

    richkae VIN587

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,917
    Trust me - I wanted to impress that upon her too. But first she had to understand when she was actually saving money before she could understand the value of her time.
     
  17. richkae

    richkae VIN587

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,917
    Again returning to the original spirit of the topic:
    If I owned a business I would prefer to give away free electricity to my customers who drive EVs but not give it away to everyone.
    As much as I hate the J1772 standard, at least it would be pretty effective at doing that. The average electricity leech is unlikely to have a J1772 adapter.

    Although having a switch inside so I could turn the outlet on for EV use would also work. It doesnt let an EV charge outside of business hours, but then again they aren't necessarily my customers if they do that.
     
  18. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    17,252
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    J1772 is also typically providing only 208/240V, and the non EV "power leeches" want 120V for their heater / AC / TV / whatever...
     
  19. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    8,572
    Location:
    Winchester, UK
    This kind of thing goes on in Ireland where they will do 50 mile round trips just to cross the border to fill up. It's even more popular since the South got the Euro and even reverses flow sometimes. People set up illicit petrol stations just to serve demand.
     

Share This Page