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Plus Matters

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by Markk993, Nov 12, 2016.

  1. Markk993

    Markk993 Member

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    I took my P85+ in to the SC for a noisy pano roof. The one day job is now on day 5 waiting on new parts. When they realized it would take longer they gave me a loaner vehicle which was a regular P85 that was almost identically optioned with air suspension, 21's etc...When I first started driving it I initially thought it was somehow quicker than mine but I soon realized it just seemed faster because i was feeling less connected to the road and that the car got "out of shape" much easier than mine.

    Only having experience driving my P85+ and a couple "D" cars i never really realized how different the driving experience is between a regular P85 and the + version. For the lack of a better term I can honestly say i feel "safer" in my car. it took very little time to adjust to the P85 but IMHO for a RWD car with that much power I now believe that the + is a must and worth the extra $s on the used market.

    I know a lot of people talk about the extra cost of staggered tires but i feel like my car is much more "predictable" and more fun. The difference between the AWD and the RWD cars is completely understandable but the difference between the P85 and the P85+ was unexpected. Am I just used to mine or has anyone else had a similar experience. I am curious about your opinions.
     
    • Like x 2
  2. AMPUP

    AMPUP Member

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    100% agree with this. Have had a similar experience. Now, I haven't received a P85/90D loaner and that would probably change my mind. Can't beat the old +'s on both value now and driving experience.
     
  3. gutowskia

    gutowskia Member

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    I had a similar experience but opposite. My P85 was in for service and I ended up with a similarly equipped P85+ loaner for 7 days. Both cars with 21" wheels and air suspension. I totally agree with you, the + suspension gives you a more 'connected with the road' feeling. I much enjoyed it. And of course the staggered rims look great. I like that wider wheel in the rear proportion to the rest of the car much more. But everything is a trade off as the + gives up a little bit of comfort for a more sporty driving feeling.

    In my case I was happy to go back to my P85. Mainly because I live in New York City suburbs where road conditions are pretty bad. In fact I switch to 19" rims for Winter months to avoid potholes from chewing up my 21" rims. Also if it was just me, + driving dynamics would be a way to go but in my case my family cares more about comfort than my driving enthusiasm.

    So big thumbs up to the P85+, it's a driver's car.
     
  4. cab

    cab Member

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    I noticed a similar sensation when my plus was in for service and I had regular P85 (with 21s...founders edition no less). When I nailed it going arounf a corner to merge into traffic or on the freeway, I experienced a little "whoa" as the car got upset a bit more. After a few days with it though, I had adapted pretty well. I probably notice as big or a bigger loss of confidence when I switch to my 19s.

    As gutowskia notes, the regular P85 did ride a bit smoother at low speeds...a noticeable, but not dramatic difference.
     
  5. Markk993

    Markk993 Member

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    Got my + back from the SC and I think i fell in love with it all over again. The difference is striking. I mentioned this to my service guy and he, like the rest of you, acknowledged that the + has a more planted and solid feel. to me it just feels safer.

    To me when a car gets higher and higher up in horsepower the braking and handling characteristics have to be beefed up as well. when I was on the hunt for my car a few months ago I was heavily leaning to the P85 not thinking that the + was worth that much more and with staggered tires it was more expensive to maintain. Thank god the perfect deal on a + came along. It might be a very slightly rougher ride but so much more fun and predictable and with a car that is this much fun to drive why would you want Auto Pilot? LOL

    On an odd note the Service guy encouraged me to keep my car saying that + cars are comparatively rare and the best of all the RWD cars. Personally I don't consider a P85+ to be "rare" as he put it but it would be interesting to see production figures to see how all the models stack up...
     
  6. Todd Burch

    Todd Burch Electron Pilot

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    I've also found the P85 with coils to be more planted than the P85 with air suspension.
     
  7. jcaspar

    jcaspar Member

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    If I remember right, after much experimentation, LOLACHAMPCAR found the best handling Model S (at the time) was a coil P85 with air dampeners.
     
  8. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

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    I love my +.

    So much so that I really am not at all unhappy with all the new models making mine obsolete. I love the feel of the road, the way she squats and sprints when I hammer the go pedal and the overall feel. I do like a very firm ride. I live in a mountainous area, so the feel is important to me when sport driving, which I don't do nearly as much as I should! The killer is tire wear. I can't seem to get more than 9-10K out of them. I have 27K on her and I am about to put my FOURTH set on! Thank the lord for Hankooks, which are very reasonably priced.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    I'm like the rest of you --- love love love my P85+. My prior car was a BMW E39 M5. Love that car too (it's now my "winter beater" :) )

    Feel exactly the same way. As much as I love Tesla, I can't imagine getting into any other non+ car, even a PxxDL. We were talking about this at the Tesla Road Trip, and if you're really motivated, I'm told all the individual P85+ suspension parts are available from Tesla, so it's theoretically possible to get them installed at a service center. Would be great to get a badged P100DL+ . ;) Except that there are a few unicorn P85+s with Autopilot 1.0, as well as a few unicorn P85Ds with the + suspension. If I ever need to replace my car, I might look for one of those first.


    I de-staggered my P85+ and put 245s on the rears with 8.5" rims. Makes is much easier to buy tires (Hankooks!) and rotate front to back. I've noticed absolutely no difference in handling. Forward grip (acceleration) doesn't change with slightly wider tires; only cornering grip is very slightly improved at the extremes of handling.

    I see people say this often. The P85+ rear rims are only 1/2" wider than the front. And the difference between 245 tires on the front, and 265 tires on the rear is just 20mm, which is about the width of your thumb. And you can really only "see" that difference when looking at the car straight on from the rear. From the side, you can't see any differences in the wheels or tires. I personally don't think a 20mm width difference is actually that discernible unless you look really really closely.
     
    • Informative x 1
  10. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

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    From HankLloydRight: Except that there are a few unicorn P85+s with Autopilot 1.0,

    I am one of the lucky few who got a P85+ unicorn. Clearly, the stars were shining bright the day I ordered that car!

    PS: I don't know why, but I always have a hell of a time typing Lloyd! the L's and O's and Y's all seem so wrong!;)
     
    • Like x 1
  11. CHG-ON

    CHG-ON Still in love after all these miles

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    From @Markk993 : On an odd note the Service guy encouraged me to keep my car saying that + cars are comparatively rare and the best of all the RWD cars. Personally I don't consider a P85+ to be "rare" as he put it but it would be interesting to see production figures to see how all the models stack up...

    They actually are pretty rare. And if they have AP (me!) they are even rarer. Not that I have any plans on selling my girl...
     
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  12. JST

    JST Active Member

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    What's the hot ticket (if there is one) for P85+ tires? I have a flat in the rear and am not sure if I'll need a new tire. Looks like Pilot SuperSports are available in 265/35 21 now, though they are back-ordered. Don't want to give up too much grip, though I wouldn't be sad about a little less rolling resistance (and a bit better range) than the PS2s now on the car.

    Should I de-stagger and put on 245s all around? Which Hankooks are you running?
     
  13. Niclas

    Niclas Member

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    The only thing better than a P85+ is the early P85D with the sports plus suspension. The later PD cars, including the P100D, are all just too soft in the suspension.
     
  14. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    I have a 75D and I was given a P85 as a loaner during my first service checkup. I thought the tires were worn out because of how easily the back end would break loose.
     
  15. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Five months after this post I bought a P85D+ to replace my P85+ which I sold.

    FYI, I have two Michelin PS2 in the staggered rear 265 size available for sale, cheap! About 8/32 of tread left. Where are you located? PM me if you're interested.

    Couldn't agree more! Well, there is still something to be said about how a true RWD car handles that is lost with the AWD, but I'm willing to look past that. :)


    I really wish that Tesla would bring back the + suspension, even as an "off-menu" option. I'd pay good money to get a P100DL+.

    Until then,I'll drive very, very, happy with my P85D+.
     
  16. Niclas

    Niclas Member

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    Yes the P100D+ would be nice but the price is just too high.
    I chased down a P85D+ and found one with Ludicrous retrofitted.
    So, almost as quick as the P100D, but WAY better handling. At half the price.
    The range of the 85-battery is more than enough.
     
    • Like x 1
  17. Randaddy

    Randaddy Member

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    Hankook Ventus V12 275/30/21 for the Rear fits, they don't make a 265 series rear. I've heard from other P85+ owners that the Hankooks wear better with lower road noise, in return for slightly less grip than the Michelins.

    Ebay sometimes has sales on Hankooks, I picked up a set preemptively a few months back.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  18. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    It's covered in other threads, but the Hankook 275/30/21s are slightly smaller in sidewall height and overall diameter. If the speedo is geared off the rear wheels, it will read about 2mph slower than actual. They also have a slightly higher revs per mile (see chart below).

    That said, if I knew the Hankook 275s were an option, I might have just kept the staggered setup (not that it makes much/any difference, but that's another story). But I got 8.5" rims for the rear and now use the Hankooks 245s all around, and I love them. Great, affordable tires, and I can also rotate front-to-back.


    upload_2017-6-22_21-2-13.png

    Source: Tire Size Calculator - Discount Tire Direct
     
  19. CLLACAB

    CLLACAB Member

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    Aside from the tires, does anyone know what else is different. Are there bigger anti-sway bars. If so, has anyone tried to retrofit them to a P85?
     
  20. HankLloydRight

    HankLloydRight Fluxing

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    Here's everything I learned researching the Performance+ suspension: Performance Plus (+) Upgrade
     

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