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tonybelding
Active Member
Not a REEV
As far as I know, PML has never used the "REEV" terminology. They call their Mini QED a hybrid.
If GM want to call the Volt a REEV, you can argue it's their product and they can call it what they want -- even if it's vague and possibly misleading.
If Tesla want to develop WhiteStar as a "REEV", you can argue it's their product and they can call it what they want -- even if it's vague and possibly misleading.
But that doesn't mean we have to apply their marketing spin to products from other companies.
As far as I know, PML has never used the "REEV" terminology. They call their Mini QED a hybrid.
If GM want to call the Volt a REEV, you can argue it's their product and they can call it what they want -- even if it's vague and possibly misleading.
If Tesla want to develop WhiteStar as a "REEV", you can argue it's their product and they can call it what they want -- even if it's vague and possibly misleading.
But that doesn't mean we have to apply their marketing spin to products from other companies.
With GM & Tesla both using the REEV term, why not start applying it to all series hybrids with an eMotor that can create more HP than the ICE? Some articles about the PML mini refer to the ICE as the "range extender".
I resisted the term for a while, but with Elon, and Darryl pushing it so hard, why fight it?
I resisted the term for a while, but with Elon, and Darryl pushing it so hard, why fight it?
I think Ferdinand Porsche called it a range extender on his Lohner-Porsche. That would have to be the earliest precedence (1899).
It's probably most correct to just use whatever term the vehicle maker uses, although that's also the most confusing, especially if you're referencing another article which might use a different term.
Maybe we should just call it a "Lohner". I like that, although probably no one else does.
It's probably most correct to just use whatever term the vehicle maker uses, although that's also the most confusing, especially if you're referencing another article which might use a different term.
Maybe we should just call it a "Lohner". I like that, although probably no one else does.
Because it's disingenuous to say any car with an ICE that assists an Electric motor is merely “range extending” without clarifying that "extending" is air polluting and increasing our dependence on foreign oil.
ICE, HEV, PHEV, BEV, FCEV, and PZEV, are just some of the terms listed in CARB's glossary. See page 13, and 14 here: http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/zevreview/zev_panel_report.pdf The government is confusing the automobile drive system terminology enough (with the new SULEV term and the two terms BEV and ZEV), why should we/they allow every manufacturer with a fertile marketing Dept. mire the landscape even more with made up naming standards?
The truth is; REEV the acronym for "Range Extended Electric Vehicle" is purposely vague term from auto making PR hacks to mislead the Joe or Jane public who at some point ask “What does REEV stand for”? and hears an answer that is not immediately clear that the car will continue to spew smog into the air.
With this new deceptive moniker what would prevent a maker from building a REEV that runs 2 miles in EV mode and 400 miles in RE mode and just call it “extending” ?
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Let's hope it doesn't get to that point where they would exploit the term to such an extent (although judging from the mild-hybrid, "micro-hybrid" variations automakers are producing, there is a possibility). For now I would say REEV is a marketing term, while Series PHEV is the technical term. It is confusing for the average joe though, as what separates a REEV from a Series PHEV? They will probably have to invent some arbitrary new standard if too many Series PHEVs are created. Lucky, there are virtually no Series PHEVs, or even series hybrids, on the road today.
Wikipedia is trying but they don't mention "range extended" as a type of hybrid (yet).
Between series, parallel, or combined... Single mode, two-mode and dual-mode... Mild, full, power-assist... The terms are already confusing and are being mis-applied all over the place.
I think it is important to note the following when comparing systems:
* ICE motor max HP
* eMotor max HP
* Battery size (KWH)
The rest of the details (how they are interconnected, transmissions, etc.) are somewhat incidental compared to those keys attributes.
Between series, parallel, or combined... Single mode, two-mode and dual-mode... Mild, full, power-assist... The terms are already confusing and are being mis-applied all over the place.
I think it is important to note the following when comparing systems:
* ICE motor max HP
* eMotor max HP
* Battery size (KWH)
The rest of the details (how they are interconnected, transmissions, etc.) are somewhat incidental compared to those keys attributes.
tonybelding
Active Member
According to Bob Lutz, it's not any kind of hybrid. He was very insistent that the Chevy Volt is not a hybrid of any sort. It's a 100% pure electric vehicle, because only the electric motor mechanically drives the wheels.
That some of the electricity comes from a gasoline-powered generator was unimportant, in his view. But it's important to me, which is why I keep on arguing about this.
May I suggest another word. EDT and GDT for Electric or Gasoline Drive Train.
As such the Volt would be a EDT+RE, the Roadster would be EDT, the Prius would be a GDT80%/EDT20% etc.
My idea any way is that what kind of drivetrain you've got IS important, as that gives you a specific torque profile, a basic efficiency and other important parameters.
Though I do see that this is going to be really really messy marketing battle in the years to come...
Cobos
As such the Volt would be a EDT+RE, the Roadster would be EDT, the Prius would be a GDT80%/EDT20% etc.
My idea any way is that what kind of drivetrain you've got IS important, as that gives you a specific torque profile, a basic efficiency and other important parameters.
Though I do see that this is going to be really really messy marketing battle in the years to come...
Cobos
tonybelding
Active Member
Q.e.d.
QUOD ERAT DEMONSTRANDUM (literally, "which was to be demonstrated") The phrase is written in its abbreviated form at the end of a mathematical proof or philosophical argument, to signify that the last statement deduced was the one to be demonstrated, so the proof is complete.
Often loosely applied in English as "Quite Easily Done".
QUOD ERAT DEMONSTRANDUM (literally, "which was to be demonstrated") The phrase is written in its abbreviated form at the end of a mathematical proof or philosophical argument, to signify that the last statement deduced was the one to be demonstrated, so the proof is complete.
Often loosely applied in English as "Quite Easily Done".
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