Police in Alma assessing if FSD involved in Tesla driver fatality

[2101Guy]

A woman dies while driving her Tesla in Alma - PILATESSEA.COM

A driver lost his life early Monday morning in a violent head-on collision in Alma, Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean.

pilatessea.com

“At the time of the accident, which occurred around 8:40 a.m., the pavement on boulevard Maurice-Paradis was not smooth.”

 

[kriskros91]

There appears to be some level of suspicion by authorities, otherwise, they would have not mentioned this DIRECTLY from the published and verified article:


“The police will also assess whether automatic driving was involved during the tragedy.”

They mention this sort of thing almost every time a Tesla is involved in an accident. This is a tragic accident but at least based on this article there's no certainty that autopilot was involved in this incident. There is no mention at all of FSD.

This is a misleading title.

 

[2101Guy]

Nope. Per the article, the police ARE assessing IF (as the title states), AP (inclusive of FSD) is involved. As of the time of the article, NO final decision by the authorities either way, has been made yet.

The title is factual as is.

 

[Dewg]

Keep an eye out on this for us 2101. Update the thread with new information as they discover it. As a matter of fact, you should go back and update all your previous threads regarding AP accident investigations with the results of those investigations. I'm sure many here would be interested in what you find.

 

[JulienW]

At this point somewhere around 0.25% of all cars on US roads are now Tesla’s and this percentage is increasing every month. There are about 100 traffic deaths every DAY. So statistically we have about 2 deaths in a Teslas every week. All Tesla’s have AP/potential FSD so they can all be “considered involved” as an off the cuff statement. Are you going to post each one of these accidents with deaths in a new and separate thread? If so as the percentage of Teslas’s on the roads increases so statistically will the number of deaths and new threads. We will soon be having one a day (statistically). Rather than polluting this forum could the moderators please make a new forum detected to people killed in car accidents that involve a Tesla. Wonder what other car forums like Ford or Toyota have a killed in accidents forum? Seems a little macabre but whatever floats your boat.

 

[2101Guy]

Keep an eye out on this for us 2101. Update the thread with new information as they discover it. As a matter of fact, you should go back and update all your previous threads regarding AP accident investigations with the results of those investigations. I'm sure many here would be interested in what you find.

Thank you. I will absolutely continue to update on these stories as the facts become available. Will be critical in possibly exonerating FSD from the assessment underway by the police as mentioned in the article.

But it does beg to question why are the police even looking at FSD/AP at all in this specific fatality….???

 

[BitJam]

But it does beg to question why are the police even looking at FSD/AP at all in this specific fatality….???

The fine article already answered this question:

All hypotheses are considered to explain this particularly violent collision.

This seems reasonable even though it means the title of this thread is overinflated.

 

[Krash]

I’m sure 2101Guy will update us with the final investigation update. (slight sarcasm implied, but really, I do expect an update.) In the mean time I have desensationalized the title.

While I appreciate the reporting to me of inappropriate behavior, and I appreciate your ignore button use, there is no need to tell everyone in thread that you are using them.

Accidents still happen. FSD is still a work I’m progress.Journalists still sensationalize.

Life is short. Don’t waste it bickering here.

 

[2101Guy]

Keep an eye out on this for us 2101. Update the thread with new information as they discover it. As a matter of fact, you should go back and update all your previous threads regarding AP accident investigations with the results of those investigations. I'm sure many here would be interested in what you find.

while it’s too soon to have an update for this one yet, I do have an update on the others: it’s now been CONFIRMED there were (at least) NINETEEN FATALITIES in the US alone, where FSD/AP were confirmed by Tesla to have been involved, just in the past 18 months. (Numbers are most likely much higher, but Tesla wasn’t reporting that info until NHTSA realized it, and then made it mandatory in June 2021.)

“Of the 18 fatal crashes reported since July 2021 that had to do with driver assistance systems, nearly all involved Tesla vehicles.”

“Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) told U.S. auto safety regulators it has reports of two new crash fatalities in Model 3 cars tied to advanced driver assistance systems in the month ending October 15”

 

[derotam]

while it’s too soon to have an update for this one yet, I do have an update on the others: it’s now been CONFIRMED there were (at least) NINETEEN FATALITIES in the US alone, where FSD/AP were confirmed by Tesla to have been involved, just in the past 18 months. (Numbers are most likely much higher, but Tesla wasn’t reporting that info until NHTSA realized it, and then made it mandatory in June 2021.)

“Of the 18 fatal crashes reported since July 2021 that had to do with driver assistance systems, nearly all involved Tesla vehicles.”

“Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) told U.S. auto safety regulators it has reports of two new crash fatalities in Model 3 cars tied to advanced driver assistance systems in the month ending October 15”

That is 19 fatalities since 2016. "Since 2016, NHTSA has investigated 39 crashes in which automated driving systems are suspected of being in use, according to agency documents. Of those, 30 involved Teslas, including crashes that caused 19 deaths."

Can you tell us how many Tesla involved fatalities happened where FSD/AP was NOT involved...Be nice to have some context for that number.

 

[2101Guy]

“Of the 18 fatal crashes (within the USA) reported since July 2021 that had to do with driver assistance systems, nearly all involved Tesla vehicles.”

"Internationally, there have been at least another nine deaths in seven additional crashes".

"From July 20th, 2021, to May 21st, 2022, there were 273 crashes involving Tesla vehicles using Autopilot, according to the report."

 

[2101Guy]

Wonder what other car forums like Ford or Toyota have a killed in accidents forum?

"Other automakers didn’t come close to Tesla’s number of reported crashes and none with fatalities. Honda, which sells its ADAS features under the brand “Honda Sensing,” disclosed 90 crashes. Subaru, which packages its ADAS under “EyeSight,” reported 10 crashes. Ford disclosed five crashes, Toyota reported four crashes, BMW reported three crashes, and General Motors, maker of Super Cruise, only disclosed two crashes. Aptiv, Hyundai, Lucid, Porsche, and Volkswagen each reported one crash."

 

[BBTX]

Raw crash counts verge on useless. What would be more informative would be a comparison based on some kind of rate. e.g. "Tesla has had 400 deaths per 100k adas miles traveled, while Volkswagen had 35" ( made up example numbers!). For even more insight, get the non-adas deaths/mile rates for the same mfgs. When just raw counts are reported, there's no meaningful comparison.

 

[derotam]

“Of the 18 fatal crashes (within the USA) reported since July 2021 that had to do with driver assistance systems, nearly all involved Tesla vehicles.”

"Internationally, there have been at least another nine deaths in seven additional crashes".

"From July 20th, 2021, to May 21st, 2022, there were 273 crashes involving Tesla vehicles using Autopilot, according to the report."

My point is that saying that they were reported since July 2021 is different than saying that they all actually happened since July 2021. It is an important distinction.

 

[2101Guy]

Raw crash counts verge on useless. What would be more informative would be a comparison based on some kind of rate. e.g. "Tesla has had 400 deaths per 100k adas miles traveled, while Volkswagen had 35" ( made up example numbers!). For even more insight, get the non-adas deaths/mile rates for the same mfgs. When just raw counts are reported, there's no meaningful comparison.

Here is the link to the full/complete dataset for US

NHTSA Releases Initial Data on Safety Performance of Advanced Vehicle Technologies | NHTSA

Data from Standing General Order on advanced driver assistance systems and automated driving systems will help inform NHTSA’s efforts.

www.nhtsa.gov

 

[derotam]

Here is the link to the full/complete dataset for US

NHTSA Releases Initial Data on Safety Performance of Advanced Vehicle Technologies | NHTSA

Data from Standing General Order on advanced driver assistance systems and automated driving systems will help inform NHTSA’s efforts.

www.nhtsa.gov

Fun caveats on the data. "Data required to contextualize the incident rates are limited. Data regarding the number of crashes reported for any given manufacturer or operator have not, therefore, been normalized or adjusted by any measure of exposure, including operational design domains or vehicle miles traveled. For example, a reporting entity could report an absolute number of crashes that is higher than another reporting entity but operate a higher number of vehicles for many more miles."

 

[gaswalla]

.25% of 100 is not 2. Ie - it’s not an expectation of 2 deaths per day from Tesla vehicles. It is 0.25 per day

 

[Dewg]

BTW, for those interested, here is a website with stats on Tesla deaths:

Tesla Deaths: Digital record of Tesla crashes resulting in death

Tesla Deaths is a record of Tesla accidents that involved the death of a driver, occupant, cyclist, motorcyclist, or pedestrian.

www.tesladeaths.com

 

[Dewg]

while it’s too soon to have an update for this one yet, I do have an update on the others: it’s now been CONFIRMED there were (at least) NINETEEN FATALITIES in the US alone, where FSD/AP were confirmed by Tesla to have been involved, just in the past 18 months. (Numbers are most likely much higher, but Tesla wasn’t reporting that info until NHTSA realized it, and then made it mandatory in June 2021.)

“Of the 18 fatal crashes reported since July 2021 that had to do with driver assistance systems, nearly all involved Tesla vehicles.”

“Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) told U.S. auto safety regulators it has reports of two new crash fatalities in Model 3 cars tied to advanced driver assistance systems in the month ending October 15”

Good Lord, this begs the question: What the hell are theses drivers doing?

I've got my hands on the wheel, my eyes focused on the road, and my feet comfortably near the pedals. If my car makes a sudden move anywhere that's not safe, I just intervene. Car heading at high speed towards something and not showing signs of slowing down? I press the brake pedal and intervene.

I'd be curious if black box data showed any intervention by these drivers. Tragic.

 

[Krash]

…What would be more informative would be a comparison based on some kind of rate…

Don’t try and distract us from our ranting with facts.

Also I have a free Tesla coloring book for those that show the most restraint in refraining from bold, italics, capital letters, red and larger fonts.