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Political - Degrading Freedoms

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Zzzz..., Nov 12, 2012.

  1. Zzzz...

    Zzzz... Member

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  2. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    I'm confused. This is an article in a U.K. news outlet with no reference to the U.S. Did I miss something in the information that indicates this is at all related to America?
     
  3. Zzzz...

    Zzzz... Member

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    You think that US and/or UK is not a part of western world? Or you are not aware of cultural and military ties between them? That they both fought together in recent wars? Or you think Twitter, who conveniently banned the user have nothing to do with US? US corporation taking preemptive action based on UK police decisions...

    And if it is possible to arrest and handcuff person in UK based on pic that poses no threat to anyone, I would not say that it is totally impossible for US police to take similar actions, lets say in case of mcornwell. If they feel like it.

    Mcornwell was somewhat defensive here already.

    And if you think that US police/government is way better then UK one, refresh your memories of Waco massacre.

    As I said, there are more freedoms in US for now. Gun laws are among them. But even those freedoms are deteriorating fast. The very recent news for example: Gun owners fear crackdown under Obama


    You can think that if US friend, United Kingdom is arresting citizens for what, posting pics of burning poppies on Twitter? is not an indication of what could happen or already happening in US. Your opinion. But my opinion is that if US police decide to go after you for posting pics online - they could do it.
     
  4. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    The only thing I know about those "poppy" things is they were wearing them on Top Gear when they reviewed the Tesla Roadster.
     
  5. Zzzz...

    Zzzz... Member

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    The guy who burned poppy clearly an idiot. Or were drunk/on crack or something.
    I got deep respect for veterans.

    But that still could not be a ground for arrest. Here is the pic:

    poppy.jpg

    Lots of people north here are wearing them. Different design though.
     
  6. markwj

    markwj Moderator, Asia Pacific

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    He wasn't arrested for burning the poppy (legal), but for posting the picture online (illegal) - which is exactly what you just did :scared:
     
  7. strider

    strider Active Member

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    Yep, there's a reason I moved out of Tulsa :rolleyes: Completely unfounded hysteria. I had a heck of a good time during the election pointing out to rednecks that Obama has NEVER banned a single gun while Romney DID ban tons of guns while Governor of Mass. I cancelled my NRA membership over their contortions to support him. I don't believe a word that comes out of any politician's mouth, period. I only believe what they do. Romney is a gun-banner and that is that.
     
  8. GSP

    GSP Member

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    Looks like this is similar to burning a US flag, only more offensive since the disrespect is directed at veterans that gave all for their country.

    I would not be quick to judge.

    GSP
     
  9. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    Time for some context from a Brit who's now an American....

    The US constitution guarantees freedom of speech even if it's offensive to others. In Britain that's not the case and there is no comparable constitution. The Brits have an established precedent of free speech but not if it's inciteful, malicious or offensive to society. British law is a little vague about what language may incite violence or other extreme behaviour but generally speaking policing authorities only get involved with cases such as neo-nazis or, in more recent years, occasional Muslim fanatics inciting terrorism.

    In the UK, the poppy is worn in November every year in remembrance of deceased military and originally came from the poppies that bloomed on the battlefields of WWI. Burning poppies at this time of year would be as offensive to many Brits as burning the US flag in July would be to many Americans. The kid concerned was not handcuffed, that generally only happens in the UK with someone who is being violent, but he was arrested and held for 24 hours then released on bail. It's a grey area of the law and it apparently hasn't been decided yet whether he will face charges.

    Here in the US we have almost unlimited freedom to offend others, in the UK there is a threshold but it's not defined.
     
  10. Zythryn

    Zythryn MS 70D, MX 90D

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    Thank you Nigel, great information. I appreciate you taking time to post!
     
  11. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    That in itself is way beyond the pale. I don't care who he offended.
     
  12. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    Well, different country, different culture. Britain is a small island with 60 million inhabitants, making a lot of noise to get people riled up is generally frowned upon. Where's the line between being offensive versus inciting rage?

    (Not condoning anything here, just saying I understand the situation).
     
  13. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    #13 brianman, Nov 15, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2012
    From Nigel's description, I get the impression it's akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater.

    Or, perhaps, it's somewhat similar to putting someone into policy custody for protection purposes when a mob (with pitchforks, not Capone) is after him/her.
     
  14. CapitalistOppressor

    CapitalistOppressor Active Member

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    Back when I cared about comparative political studies, it was well understood that Great Britain doesn't have the same rights that we do here in the U.S.

    It's still a liberal democracy and a paragon of freedom, but at it's core the government is majoritarian. The supreme law of the land is basically whatever the Parlimentary majority decides it is. If we had a similar system here, I have little doubt that flag burning would have been outlawed decades ago.

    I like our system here in the U.S., but the British have a solid record of maintaining liberal norms despite the lack of a foundational document, and arresting some kid for burning a poppy doesn't make them a police state.
     
  15. arg

    arg Member

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    Actually, this is a relatively active political topic over here. The case of the poppy burner was largely reported in the media as a case of the police over-reacting. There was a similar case a few years ago of a guy being convicted and losing his job over a twitter post which was clearly joking but was treated as a threat of terrorist action. He eventually had the verdict overturned on appeal, two years later. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-19009344.

    Both those are applications of a relatively new law (Communications Act 2003).

    In a similar timescale, we also have the introduction of Human Rights legislation - which sounds like a good thing, but has thrown up a number of perverse cases where the 'rights' of criminals have appeared to trump those of the people on whom they prey.

    So, it's a time of change for civil liberties over here, not necessarily for the better.
     
  16. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    Britain is becoming more American, while America worries about becoming too European?
     
  17. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Almost. Other countries are realizing they need to become more like America of the past (a country worthy of respect and envy), while America is becoming like Europe today (a financial mess).
     
  18. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    I'm always amazed at how people make sweeping generalizations about "Europe". I guess it's a result of the rather insular US media.
     
  19. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    Totally agree with that. Watching even CNN International (still out of Atlanta) abroad and CNN here in the US is like night and day!
     
  20. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    When one or more countries are considering breaking apart and switching to a new currency thst implies a mess to me.

    Citizens of U.S. states considering secession for similar reasons is a similar mess.

    Where am I off the mark here?
     

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