Politics - Quarantine Thread

[Jayson]

apparently all the deaths due to the fallout from a ruined economy are meaningless.

Deaths from a ruined economy? Really? Where? And how many compared to the daily COVID death total?

 

[Tam]

...do you think you just roll over, sleep, and die?...

Covid-19 attacks the breathing and it's a horrible way to slowly die. It tires its victim out because of the constantly tremendous heavy breathing but there's no relief from the feeling of being suffocated.

 

[SSedan]

Ruined economy leads to poverty and increased suicide.
Hospitals are documenting reduced stroke and heart attack visits, those folks are scared by the media and not seeking timely treatment.
U.N. is expecting t he e economic damage to trigger famine.
The whole country is not NYC we should not be treated the same.

This is a virus, like the flu it is here forever, we can't hide forever.

Getting back to work in a thoughtful manner is the right choice. Give individuals who feel particularly vulnerable the support to shelter.

Those saying we have to cower in a corner for a year or two till there is a vaccine, how many of you work in essential industries? How many of you are working on a garden and some chickens so you can be food self sufficient and not make other people paid less than you "risk their lives" to support the food production and distribution network?

 

[MXLRplus]

Nonsense.

First of all there are plenty of immunity compromised people where their illness has nothing to do with their weight or lifestyle.

And there are thousands of otherwise very healthy people who have died. Just in my neighborhood alone there was a 32 year old otherwise perfectly young father who died at home in his sleep after being released from the hospital because he seemed to be on the mend. He died in his sleep. According to his wife he was having trouble breathing and unfortunately made the mistake of deciding to wait until morning to return to the hospital.

Another one of my neighbors was on a ventilator for 17 days and the doctors finally had to make the difficult decision that they could not save him. 48 years old, an avid runner, and otherwise in perfect health. They sneaked his wife into the hospital to say goodbye to him as they disconnected him, and she was there as he tried to take his last breaths. She could not even give him a hug as it was too dangerous. About as gut wrenching as it gets.

For every tear-jerking story you can find about C19, I can find far more about avoidable auto accident victims that we can truly prevent via education. Same with various infectious diseases that continue to kill every single day. Or diseases we don't even understand yet. My mother and grandmother both died of idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis in their 60's with no underlying conditions. They have no treatment for it, and don't what causes it. It took years for them to slowly suffocate to death. Hopefully their cases are not hereditary. Not likely though.

8000+ people will die today in the US. How many of the deaths were pleasant? How many were avoidable (most)?

 

[Tam]

...This is a virus, like the flu it is here forever, we can't hide forever...

Forever doesn't mean we can't beat it!

The first mishandling of the Covid-19 in China was blamed on local authorities who wanted to look good and did not report the seriousness to the central government. Just like in the US now, Wuhan's patients were dying and also, the healthcare workers were dying and they were all stressed out (such as 49 year old New York Emergency Doctor who committed suicide)

Once Beijing learned about the situation, it locked down the county and built 2 hospitals, sent 42,000 healthcare workers to the area and changed the protocols: The PPE covers head to toe as if it's ebola, nurses worked in a 4 hour shift and doctors worked in a 6 hour shift (unlike the current overtime in the US).

After 76 days, it's over. No additional healthcare worker infected or died (no suicide either).

And, not just in China. Look where women are the rulers:

39 year old New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern: Her motto "Go hard and go early". It's now contained.

Same with Taiwan President Tsai Ing-wen.

34 year old Finland Prime Minister Sanna Marin and her neighboring Denmark Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen, Norway Prime Minister Erna Solberg, Iceland Prime minister Katrin Jakobsdottir, and last and not least, Germany Chancellor Angela Merkel: They all took the disease seriously and have prevented a crisis.

It can be done. We just need a leader who is willing to listen to scientists like the above leaders.

 

[cucubits]

It can be done. We just need a leader who is willing to listen to scientists like the above leaders.

We are so on the opposite end of the spectrum with this one...

 

[TravelFree]

I agreed with Elon's comments during the Earning's call, foul language and all. He was spot on. However the string of Tweets Friday were over the top and I wondered if his mind had snapped. Then someone I respect reminded me that Elon was just being Elon and he is fine, not to worry.

Some here claim that Tesla is listed as an essential company but that is not what I heard from the California authorities. They want Tesla shut down. They don't care about the people, the factory workers, only how much power they can have over others.

Locally, we do not have a serious problem here in Jacksonville, FL but our statistics are similar to Fremont with respect to COVID-19. We do not have a police state and while traffic is lower than normal it is still busy. Most of the restyaurants and movie theaters are closed and shopping malls closed. But our Tesla SC is open and delivering Teslas the whole month of April. Tesla policy was basic social distancing when I took my delivery.

Monday I had my quarterly cardiology testing and consult. My doctor told me they are very busy, not with COVID-19 but heart attacks up 3 times before this COVID-19 hysteria began. Mostly from people who lost their jobs, and then suffer anxiety triggered heat attacks.

Anyway, My message to Elon as a stock holder and Model S owner is to make plans to open a GF in a state that appreciates what he is doing for America. Like here in Florida. We love Elon's SpaceX at Cape Canaveral and would be honored to have a massive Tesla and battery plant here in NE Florida where the beaches are great, the people are friendly, Hurricanes are rare, no Earthquakes or massive forest fires and no state income tax and most importantly a very business friendly government. You can then close down Fremont where the authorities hate you and threaten you, maybe keep open the R&D for work at home employees. If you do that you and your employees will wake up every morning with a smile on your faces. We started relaxing the shutdown back on April the 15th.

 

[EVortex]

Forever doesn't mean we can't beat it!

The first mishandling of the Covid-19 in China was blamed on local authorities who wanted to look good and did not report the seriousness to the central government. Just like in the US now, Wuhan's patients were dying and also, the healthcare workers were dying and they were all stressed out (such as 49 year old New York Emergency Doctor who committed suicide)

Once Beijing learned about the situation, it locked down the county and built 2 hospitals, sent 42,000 healthcare workers to the area and changed the protocols: The PPE covers head to toe as if it's ebola, nurses worked in a 4 hour shift and doctors worked in a 6 hour shift (unlike the current overtime in the US).

After 76 days, it's over. No additional healthcare worker infected or died (no suicide either).

And, not just in China. Look where women are the rulers:

39 year old New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern: Her motto "Go hard and go early". It's now contained.

Same with Taiwan President Tsai Ing-wen.

34 year old Finland Prime Minister Sanna Marin and her neighboring Denmark Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen, Norway Prime Minister Erna Solberg, Iceland Prime minister Katrin Jakobsdottir, and last and not least, Germany Chancellor Angela Merkel: They all took the disease seriously and have prevented a crisis.

It can be done. We just need a leader who is willing to listen to scientists like the above leaders.

Sounds like you trust other leaders, but not ours. Do you believe we can still both save the maximum number of lives and our economy, or are they mutually exclusive?

 

[Dave EV]

Its simple.

Elon could have taken a grown up role and said "Hey look - we already operate a factory in Shanghai safely and here's how we can do it. And we can apply this model to many other businesses as well! Let's do it!" (Note Amazon earnings call w/Bezos as contrast)

Instead, he chose to shout "FREEDOM! LET ME DO WHAT I WANT! THIS LOCKDOWN IS FASCIST! TESLA IS OVERRATED!"

The contrast couldn't be starker. It's clear that while Elon is an engineering genius and good at solving hard technical problems, he is an extremely poor communicator and a poor leader.

This is shameful because whether he likes it or not, he is the face of Tesla (and SpaceX), and by continuing to make poor decisions he significantly affects the perception of Tesla and SpaceX and their goals. I know many people absolutely love Tesla's and SpaceX's goals and progress, but detest Elon's image as a rich, selfish brat.

I love my Tesla, but as a Tesla owner and Tesla fan, I hate all the negative attention and drama Elon brings to the brand.

 

[Tam]

Sounds like you trust other leaders, but not ours. Do you believe we can still both save the maximum number of lives and our economy, or are they mutually exclusive?

As President Reagan said "Trust, but verified".

I had to verify what FSD could do when I first bought it in 2017: The Autopilot wouldn't even work if I drove faster than 35MPH on freeway with a posted speed of 70MPH around here (It latter was incrementally increased to 90MPH eventually.)

The US recalled the embedded CDC staff in China back to the US while Taiwan did the opposite, it sent its scientists to the hot zone Wuhan instead.

Talks are useless in saving lives such as suing China and threatening to default on Treasury bonds held by Chinese investors to recuperate for the US deaths...

Johns Hopkins predicted Taiwan would be the second highest Covid-19 number after China due to its proximity but it's the opposite. It never had to shut down its economy. Its schools, businesses, restaurants... have been ongoing with no interruptions throughout. Its toll: 432 infected, 6 deaths as of today.

All this is not luck nor trust: It's hard work!

Taiwan's aggressive efforts are paying off in fight against COVID-19

It's the actions that count.

 

[EVortex]

I agreed with Elon's comments during the Earning's call, foul language and all. He was spot on. However the string of Tweets Friday were over the top and I wondered if his mind had snapped. Then someone I respect reminded me that Elon was just being Elon and he is fine, not to worry.

Some here claim that Tesla is listed as an essential company but that is not what I heard from the California authorities. They want Tesla shut down. They don't care about the people, the factory workers, only how much power they can have over others.

Locally, we do not have a serious problem here in Jacksonville, FL but our statistics are similar to Fremont with respect to COVID-19. We do not have a police state and while traffic is lower than normal it is still busy. Most of the restyaurants and movie theaters are closed and shopping malls closed. But our Tesla SC is open and delivering Teslas the whole month of April. Tesla policy was basic social distancing when I took my delivery.

Monday I had my quarterly cardiology testing and consult. My doctor told me they are very busy, not with COVID-19 but heart attacks up 3 times before this COVID-19 hysteria began. Mostly from people who lost their jobs, and then suffer anxiety triggered heat attacks.

Anyway, My message to Elon as a stock holder and Model S owner is to make plans to open a GF in a state that appreciates what he is doing for America. Like here in Florida. We love Elon's SpaceX at Cape Canaveral and would be honored to have a massive Tesla and battery plant here in NE Florida where the beaches are great, the people are friendly, Hurricanes are rare, no Earthquakes or massive forest fires and no state income tax and most importantly a very business friendly government. You can then close down Fremont where the authorities hate you and threaten you, maybe keep open the R&D for work at home employees. If you do that you and your employees will wake up every morning with a smile on your faces. We started relaxing the shutdown back on April the 15th.

Elon is under enormous personal and business pressure. Not an excuse for a CEO’s behavior, but perhaps helps explain to some extent. He is only human (I think).

 

[Tam]

Its simple.

Elon could have taken a grown up role and said "Hey look - we already operate a factory in Shanghai safely and here's how we can do it. And we can apply this model to many other businesses as well! Let's do it!" (Note Amazon earnings call w/Bezos as contrast)...

Exactly! This is not the first rodeo for Tesla because it already did it in China without soliciting anger from the Chinese public.

 

[SSedan]

U.S. COVID-19 death rate by state | Statista

Tell me again how "Trump" has failed as opposed to a few states who's leaders will say the sky is orange just to disagree with him. Oh but even those state leaders have said the Federal government has gotten them everything they need.

The country has done well, NY has done horribly partially because no of population density and partially becaus Deblasio is the horrid failure you are pretending Trump is.

Most states have single digits per 100k death rate, NY has 123........ Lumping them together isn't honest evaluation of data.

Here in WI we were told going to the polls was going to kill us all, out of 400k in person voters 52 later became infected and can NOT be traced directly to voting and none died. Again nobody claims those 52 were were inf at the polls, all had other opportunities to pick it up.

 

[Tam]

...Do you believe we can still both save the maximum number of lives and our economy, or are they mutually exclusive?

Yes!

We missed the timeline but as Americans, we can definitely catchup.

It's the same with losing the space race to the USSR at first, but we could catch up!

Same here: Do what Taiwan, South Korea, New Zealand, Iceland... do:

Ramp up the PPE and other medical equipment including test kits. Other countries did it. Israel was also like Trump at first and downplayed the Covid-19 but then it caught up with the fight quickly by ordering its national intelligence agency the Mossad to do that. It's difficult for Israel to obtain all those because many countries are unfriendly but the Mossad did it!

With the test kits, every workplace can prevent untested workers from entering the workplace.

 

[EVortex]

Yes!

We missed the timeline but as Americans, we can definitely catchup.

It's the same with losing the space race to the USSR at first, but we could catch up!

Same here: Do what Taiwan, South Korea, New Zealand, Iceland... do:

Ramp up the PPE and other medical equipment including test kits. Other countries did it. Israel was also like Trump at first and downplayed the Covid-19 but then it caught up with the fight quickly by ordering its national intelligence agency the Mossad to do that. It's difficult for Israel to obtain all those because many countries are unfriendly but the Mossad did it!

With the test kits, every workplace can prevent untested workers from entering the workplace.

Thanks for the response. I see you believe in action and solutions.

 

[TEG]

It is sad how political forces continue to use everything (including the response to this pandemic) as a wedge to divide people.

There is so much mis-information floating around that we are ending up with too much chaos and not enough unity, agreement, and coordination.

 

[brianman]

I don't know what is wrong with Elon, but he is probably on the spectrum.

As is the country.

 

[Jayson]

Monday I had my quarterly cardiology testing and consult. My doctor told me they are very busy, not with COVID-19 but heart attacks up 3 times before this COVID-19 hysteria began. Mostly from people who lost their jobs, and then suffer anxiety triggered heat attacks.

Not really surprising a cardiologist would be busy with heart attacks rather than COVID

Sounds like an amazing doctor in that he is able to determine a group of heart attacks were related to lost jobs. Wonder how he did that.

 

[EVortex]

Not really surprising a cardiologist would be busy with heart attacks rather than COVID

Sounds like an amazing doctor in that he is able to determine a group of heart attacks were related to lost jobs. Wonder how he did that.

It’s good to listen to multiple perspectives and then use critical thinking to make your own opinions and decisions. I’m thankful we still have the right to do that. It’s also good to be respectful to those that have differing opinions from our own.

 

[Msjulie]

More to the point for this thread, I don't understand WTF Elon is doing with all this tweeting. It's terrible, not a good look, he seems to be mostly wrong, and it's not good for Tesla.

Well said