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I worked in one of his buildings in NY and had the unfortunate experience of being in a room with him hearing private conversations. If you think he has leadership skills then I have to believe you are being sarcastic. I was an executive at the company leasing his building and I can tell you he is the most incompetent person I have ever encountered. In fact in 1997 I remember sitting next to him and hearing his nonsense and BS and I literally said to myself "if this guy ever ran for president we would be screwed". I kid you not it's a true story. He is a brainless fool that can do one thing well and I can assure you it's not leading in any way.
I can't disagree, but I'd prefer that we stick to car talk, please. You're not going to convince him of anything.
 
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600k are not going to die in the USA from this, like I said even the guy who came up with the room and gloom models is saying the current information discredits his own prior work.

The folks that think this is the apocalypse either live in the rather small hotspots or believe the scare tactics being used in the news.

China has horrible smog and a 2/3rds smoking rate among men. Italy has many generations living together, are more touchy feely with greetings, and again smoke heavily and the average age is 12 years older than the USA..........

Yes I know the USA has a lot of cases but that is due to our mobility, which is being curtailed and advances are coming fast and furiously now that the free market is involved. There is a 5 minute test that they have approved. As that ramps up it will help identify the spread faster thereby convincing folks to lock down faster spreading less.

Honestly I think there is an unfortunately high number of folks who want this to be bad for the political leverage they think they can gain from it, and that is disgusting.

I literally posted direct tweets from the guy at Imperial College saying that he has not substantially revised his assessments, but you're sticking with the conclusions that he did.
 
Yes, extremely rude and offensive to those of us (half of the country) who voted for the guy. Show some respect. You aren't the only one who lives here.

Let's try some constructive discussion about Teslas and leave the politics to social media :)


its amazing some people do not see that politicians say what their audience wants to hear. everyone must remember when Al Gore talked like an African American preacher to that crowd? or Obama saying some weird thing to certain groups? those sound bites of Trump talking about renewable's were said as he spoke to coal or that narrow group who want to hear that. its called "being a politician" I'm certain Trump will speak highly of renewable's if that was his audience.
yes, i happen to be conservative and will vote Trump again; but i never ever said a bad thing about Obama , Clinton (i loved Bill) etc etc.

i realize they all say what they think they must; but overall they all care about this country and deserve respect.
 
its amazing some people do not see that politicians say what their audience wants to hear. everyone must remember when Al Gore talked like an African American preacher to that crowd? or Obama saying some weird thing to certain groups? those sound bites of Trump talking about renewable's were said as he spoke to coal or that narrow group who want to hear that. its called "being a politician" I'm certain Trump will speak highly of renewable's if that was his audience.
yes, i happen to be conservative and will vote Trump again; but i never ever said a bad thing about Obama , Clinton (i loved Bill) etc etc.

i realize they all say what they think they must; but overall they all care about this country and deserve respect.

This is all true and most people DO see that, but it doesn’t change the fact that there’s a cultural war playing out and the quickly polarizing left and right are a direct result of that. Yes all politicians pander to their audience. Yes some of them are good people and care about America at least a little bit. Yes some of them on both sides suck. Yes, there are good people that support each party and we’re not as dissimilar as we’re led to believe.

None of that changes the fact that the policies (Not what they say, what they DO) each party is pushing now paint remarkably different futures for this country as a result of the polarization. It’s no longer an inconsequential “we can disagree and all still love each other” situation anymore. It’s literally a cultural war between two groups that view the soul of the nation very differently. A lot of it is influenced by religion. A lot of it is influenced by regional differences. A lot of it is influenced by educational differences.

I grew up in a Boston suburb (came from a conservative family and I didn’t grow up amongst any diversity) and now live in downtown Dallas. The differences are stunning and it flipped my belief system upside down within a few years. It’s easy to ignore it and say we all want the same thing and should respect everyone...but that ignorance is a luxury that not everyone has.

I’m not here to say who’s right or wrong, I’m just saying there are two very different potential futures for this country and there’s a lot of weight in that decision. I don’t care what politicians say. I care what they do.
 
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Calm down and take a joke, dude.

https://blazepress.com/2017/04/dad-...us-situations-other-parents-have-a-melt-down/

The PR police is what's wrong with this country (and that virus thing).

For everyone seeing this for the first time, the image is what it is.

No one suspects a Photoshop job and, frankly, given the number of people that voted for the "Orange One" who is currently living in government housing at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, this sort of "Waiting for Darwin" types are all over the place . . . .
 
Well, with an average approval rating at around 40% in his fourth year, I'm sure there are a lot of regrets.



So, don't you think investing in renewable energy would eventually lead to a cleaner environment?



Can you back that statement up? And which models are you referring to? The European or the US? Or both?



The smart move is to prepare for the worst. The Trumpian move is to deny until it's too late, then lie about it.



Why do you think you have to give up these amenities?



My reason for buying a Tesla was the car's capabilities first and foremost, but it's nice to know I'm not polluting the environment every time I drive it. Getting out and not smelling the exhaust or the engine fumes is something I do not miss.




Yeah, well our President did.




You set the bar too high. Let's start from 5th Grade and work our way back.



The entire planet wish he'd just shut up.

-Paris Accord? Thank the lobbyists. They own Trump and most of Congress.

-Iran Nuke Deal? Oh you mean the, "I hate Obama, so I'm going undo what he did" deal? The same one that increased tensions in the area and has made Iran even more determined to develop nukes? What a deal!!

-China? Depressing the world economy through idiotic trade tariffs is now an accomplishment?

-NAFTA? You mean NAFTA 2.0? It seems many economists are not convinced the new 'deals' with Mexico and Canada would bring the level of benefits promised. It looks nice on paper, but only time will tell.

To call Trump a 'leader' is laughable. A toddler that throws tantrums is more like it.
Well, with an average approval rating at around 40% in his fourth year, I'm sure there are a lot of regrets.



So, don't you think investing in renewable energy would eventually lead to a cleaner environment?



Can you back that statement up? And which models are you referring to? The European or the US? Or both?



The smart move is to prepare for the worst. The Trumpian move is to deny until it's too late, then lie about it.



Why do you think you have to give up these amenities?



My reason for buying a Tesla was the car's capabilities first and foremost, but it's nice to know I'm not polluting the environment every time I drive it. Getting out and not smelling the exhaust or the engine fumes is something I do not miss.




Yeah, well our President did.




You set the bar too high. Let's start from 5th Grade and work our way back.



The entire planet wish he'd just shut up.

-Paris Accord? Thank the lobbyists. They own Trump and most of Congress.

-Iran Nuke Deal? Oh you mean the, "I hate Obama, so I'm going undo what he did" deal? The same one that increased tensions in the area and has made Iran even more determined to develop nukes? What a deal!!

-China? Depressing the world economy through idiotic trade tariffs is now an accomplishment?

-NAFTA? You mean NAFTA 2.0? It seems many economists are not convinced the new 'deals' with Mexico and Canada would bring the level of benefits promised. It looks nice on paper, but only time will tell.

To call Trump a 'leader' is laughable. A toddler that throws tantrums is more like it.

(I'd like to learn how you did those quotes.....?)

Lot's to consider.

1. The alternate was way worse. It would have been Obama 2.0 with no magic wand, amemic growth, and identity politics. No thanks. The media has shown itself to be the propaganda wing of the Democrat Party, there is no debating this. That Trump has any approval at all is astounding and should be worrisome come November.

2. Yes, renewables will lead to a cleaner environment. Stop trying to scare people, because with each calamitous prediction that never materializes, you turn people off to the message and the messengers.

3. The models that said each consecutive Florida hurricane season would be worse than the next.

4. Industry makes the products you use, the products you find convenient. Petroleum products, semiconductors, anything that requires energy and lubrication--all these things require energy to produce, and all create unwanted byproducts. Unless you are willing to forego modern conveniences, you can never offset developing countries, and never offset China and India.

5. Trump followed the advice of his esteemed team, CDC, NIH, WHO, all of which were fed bad information from China and incomplete information from Europe. Recognizing the impending threat as everyone else did (except the above), he closed travel from China against the advise of the WHO and likely Fauci who was still walking the fence, same as he did with ebola and N1H1. For this Trump was called a racist, and the woke politicians in San Francisco and NYC were **actively encouraging** people to congregate (reference Pelosi walk thru Chinatown and DeBlasio telling everyone to go to the movies.) Look what happened in NYC and tell me who did something too late. I personally have no faith in Fauci who has ignored everything his training taught him with regards to infections disease. Namely, "isolation", not "treat if they get sick" as he did with ebola. He has traded his MD for a political diploma. That ship that docked in CA, unloaded all the sick people and transsported them to a barracks that had to be converted to a hospital. How stupid. The military should have set up their tent hospitals right there in the cruise ship parking lot, and everyone who came out was either healthy or dead. No need to transport (exposure) and convert sleeping quarters ($$ wasted). I was in the Army, and with correct leadership it could be done. This is the knucklehead stuff I put up with. I could go on.

6. The media and Dems are trying to pin unpreparedness on Trump, including the NY governor. The fact is that ventilators are not consumables. Vents bought today will be obsolete within 10 years, meaning no parts and no support from the manufacturer. Unused, they still have to be maintained ($$). Unused and obsolete, they are sold off at auction and resold to 3rd world countries. Billions down the drain. These are the reasons NY and the US gov't didn't stockpile 1,000,000 of them, because it is a budgetary waste. You roll that dice, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Now that we have contracts with Tesla and GM to made zillions of them because everyone one is screaming for vents that will likely not be used, they will be sold off too.

7. The causal link between electromagnetic fields and carcinogenesis is still undetermined. He shoudl not have brought it up, but I'm not him. Yes, he should just shut up sometimes.

8. The nuke deal simply delayed Iran's bomb, not prevented it, and the cash pallets now fund international terrorism. The calculus (was/still is) that by the time the deal expires, there would be a new gov't that would be friendly to the West. Fat chance. The Arabs/Persians have no religious, historic or cultural memory of Western style democracy and there is no reason to expect that to change. This was the fatal benevolent mistake of Bush 2 and the Neocons who invaded Iraq, who thought that we are all the same and everyone wants the same freedoms we enjoy.

9. China needed to be dealt with sooner or later. You would prefer later when it could possibly be too late. We welcomed China into the WTO and no one was willing to lift a finger against them as they did everything contrary to expected norms of behavior. As long as we had access, businesses and gov'ts were willing to accept huge trade imbalances and give up trade and manufacturing secrets. How foolish. It produced what we have today. China's trade agreements and NAFTA are outdated and imbalanced now 20 years + later. Past presidents ignored it as it was too much of a political risk and would offend our "partners". Ha, Canada raced to the table once they figured out they would be left behind. That was funny! so much for Trudeau's rhetoric. Now, it is a matter of outlasting China's resolve. They do know that there is tremendous pressure on Trump, so they do the calculus on the election as well, but it may not turn out like they wish.

10. Trump is a take-charge guy. You may not like that style, but it is what it is. I'm not a fanboi and acknowledge his faults and I just wish he would just shut up sometimes. He is not eloquent, well-spoken or a smooth operator. He likes pretty women and probably/likely been a man-whore, not unlike very many celebrities, athletes, or men of power and money. And when you say "tantrums", that is CNN (sorry, Cable News Entertainment) fake news opinion disguised as fact that you should ignore.

Boy, this got long.
 
Here's what our boy Elon had to say about the state-ordered shelter-in-place mandates many of us are now living under: “This is the time to think about the future, and also to ask, is it right to infringe upon people’s rights as what is happening right now?”

“I think the people are going to be very angry about this and are very angry. It’s like somebody should be, if somebody wants to stay in the house that’s great, they should be allowed to stay in the house and they should not be compelled to leave. But to say that they cannot leave their house, and they will be arrested if they do, this is fascist. This is not democratic. This is not freedom. Give people back their goddamn freedom.”

He later added: “So the expansion of the shelter in place or as frankly I would call it forcibly imprisoning people in their homes, against all their constitutional rights, but that’s my opinion, and breaking people’s freedoms in ways that are horrible and wrong, and not why people came to America or built this country. What the f—. Excuse me. It’s outrage, it’s an outrage. It will cause great harm not just to Tesla, but to many companies. And while Tesla will weather the storm there are many small companies that will not.”

There’s so much wrong there, I don’t know where to begin. First of all, the shelter-in-place orders in the San Francisco Bay area, where Tesla is located, do not say people cannot leave their homes. Rather, nonessential businesses are closed, certain public areas are closed, and large gatherings are banned.

As far as I know, there is no shelter-in-place order in America that says people cannot leave their homes. Where I live, we are allowed to leave for exercise and walking pets. As well as travel to essential businesses (the grocery store), or to take care of loved ones who need assistance. I believe we’re even allowed to drive for leisure.

Elon is also wrong when he implies shelter-in-place orders are unconstitutional. According to an op-ed published by a news outlet based just up the road from the Bay, The Sacramento Bee, the government has “broad power” to do what needs to be done during a public health crisis to stop a disease. The op-ed, written by a law professor, cites precedent in American history going back to shortly after the Revolutionary War. It also cites the Supreme Court, which has upheld compulsory vaccination and a state’s right to establish quarantines.

He’s also wrong on principle. I may have the right to do whatever I want within the bounds of the law, but I don’t have the right to hurt you in the process. So I don’t have the right to get you sick because I want to get my hair cut. Or because I want the Tesla I bought to get built so I can take delivery.

Finally, Elon doesn’t understand why we need the lockdowns in the first place. We need them because even though roughly 80 percent of coronavirus cases do not lead to hospitalizations, 20 percent do. And that’s enough that our healthcare system would be overwhelmed if we simply let the virus rip through the population. Which not only would lead to more deaths from COVID-19, but also lead to more deaths from other medical issues, since care wouldn’t be available.

Elon tried to back up his point by using data to show that California’s hospitals have plenty of capacity at the moment. But he’s actually accidentally making the opposing point – the hospitals have capacity because social distancing and shelter-in-place orders are slowing the spread of coronavirus. In short, shelter-in-place is doing exactly what it is supposed to do.

Also, we need to socially distance because this virus can be spread by people who don’t know they’re infected, whether they’re asymptomatic (infected but not showing any symptoms) or presymptomatic (infected, but not showing symptoms just yet). It’s hard to quash a virus when it’s not obvious who has it. More testing will help, but we’re not there yet. We stopped SARS in its tracks in part because we knew who had it (it was only contagious once symptoms appeared) and could isolate them from the rest of the population.

Remember, this is a disease that no one was immune to when it made the leap to humans. Even now that some folks have had it and recovered, we don’t know yet what level of immunity, if any, they have, and for how long. Oh, and it doesn’t just affect the elderly and those with underlying conditions. It has hospitalized and even killed perfectly healthy adults in their 20s, 30s, and 40s. Perhaps not as many younger, healthy people have been as hard hit, but enough have to show that just being young and in good shape does not make you immune.

This isn’t the flu. Not only is it literally not the flu – it’s a coronavirus, meaning it belongs to the same group of viruses that in some cases cause the common cold and in other cases cause severe diseases like SARS and MERS – it’s deadlier. Anywhere from a 1 percent to 5 percent case fatality rate. It’s killed more people than the flu does during most flu seasons in a shorter amount of time, and that’s WITH shelter-in-place orders in effect in much of the country.

Lest you think that last bit of reasoning is liberal claptrap, it comes from the editor of one of the most respected conservative partisan outlets, National Review. And may I remind the right-wing protest crowd that several of the governors who have been strong on shelter-in-place are Republicans (DeWine in Ohio, Hogan in Maryland, and Baker in Massachusetts)?

What this is all about for Elon is building Teslas. Fremont is shuttered since it’s not deemed essential. It’s located in a county that has extended shelter-in-place through the end of May.

I understand why Elon wants to get production restarted, so that his company can fulfill orders. But in a time of pandemic, when a highly contagious virus is moving through the population and we can’t even tell who’s infected, maybe Tesla can wait to make its deliveries?

No one likes the lockdowns. Do you think governors who ordered the lockdowns like losing the tax revenue?

But I get why this has to be done. And the thing that drives me crazy about the anti-lockdown crowd, like Elon, is that they’re falling for a false choice. It’s not about making a choice between lives and the economy. If we open back up too soon and a second wave of virus-related hospitalizations hit, no one is going to want to go shopping or to the movies or the bars anyway.

I suspect I do know why certain pols on the right want to re-open the country, science be damned. They’d rather not expand unemployment for folks put out of work by the pandemic. Ideology is driving the decisions, not science. If you don’t believe me, see Iowa – the governor there won’t give unemployment to anyone who quits their job because they’re afraid of contracting the virus.

If you want to complain about certain aspects of the orders, fine. Michigan’s governor may have gone a bit too far in that state. But the science is clear – if we don’t lockdown, the pandemic will be much worse. And the opinions of a raving CEO aren’t equal to scientific fact. Just because Elon can say that people are angry and they shouldn’t be ordered to stay home as much as possible doesn’t change the fact that every key scientist working on this says we need to shelter in place, at least for a while, to slow the spread of the virus until we can increase testing and tracing, and that we’ll still have to wear masks, socially distance, and perhaps avoid large crowds even after the lockdowns are lifted, unless we get an effective therapeutic drug/drug combination or a vaccine. It completely and totally sucks, but it’s reality.

Elon is so determined to get his cars built that he’s missing the bigger picture. We don’t need Teslas right now, we need testing. We need to be at home a little longer to help keep the hospitals at a manageable capacity.

Shelter-in-place orders aren’t “fascism”. They’re meant to keep us safe. And the more we lockdown now, the less we’ll have to lockdown later.

This is basic stuff. One needn’t be an epidemiologist or virologist to understand it. One needn’t have even done well in science and/or math growing up. One just needs to put aside one’s selfish desires and listen to the experts.

Elon is far too smart to be this stupid.
 
TL;DR and you're 100% wrong on many things, including the claim that the government has the power to suspend the exercise of rights in the manner they've done. The government does have broad emergency police powers, but they can't be exercised in an arbitrary or capricious manner and have to be as limited as possible to accomplish the goal of protecting public safety. There's a HUGE gap between something like requiring people to wear a mask in a nursing home and harassing religious folks who want to worship together because they aren't complying with an arbitrary guideline on distancing. But don't trust me, I'm just an experienced constitutional lawyer who has litigated cases before the US Supreme Court. If there ever is a scientific study that can show that sheltering in place actually has a material, positive effect on stopping the spread of a disease that is deadly, that would be different. If you are ok with giving up your liberty to appease hypochondriacs and power hungry fascists, that's your choice, but it doesn't make it constitutional.
 
I follow him on Twitter and its really embarrassing.

He seems to have fallen badly for some really weird conspiracy theory that COVID-19 deaths are being over-reported.
Despite some very hard evidence to the contrary.

Note: The likelihood is that COVID-19 deaths are massively under-reported.

Don't know how we can get him off that and back to cars, energy solutions and space travel.
 
“I think the people are going to be very angry about this and are very angry. It’s like somebody should be, if somebody wants to stay in the house that’s great, they should be allowed to stay in the house and they should not be compelled to leave. But to say that they cannot leave their house, and they will be arrested if they do, this is fascist. This is not democratic. This is not freedom. Give people back their goddamn freedom.”

Wow, I did not expect this from him. Enough to say that now I think way less of Elon than I was before.

Came here with popcorn to see some knucklehead who again misunderstood something Elon said but sadly I was proven wrong.
 
OP, At least get you Elon quotes in correct order. If you write 'he later said' but he actually said it before the prior statement so it was not later.
Facism . he's correct though


pdobear.jpg
 
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say people/Tesla employees were locked down for 6 weeks and they followed all safety measures at home and now allowed to return to work, and work place have xtra layers of safety/precautions set up-wouldn't that be sufficient?
My company is deemed essential and we've taken xtra layers of precaution due to pandemic-we haven't shut down at all.
Elon has donated ventilators but he seemed furious of over reacting to the pandemic like that of toilet paper frenzy.
 
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