Politics - Quarantine Thread

[Corndart]

Setting up my 2021 taxes and it’s saying my 2021MYP isn’t eligible for any tax credit?? Is this real? I was totally banking on a the 7500 EV credit.

<iframe src="Gordon Ramsay Facepalm GIF by Masterchef - Find & Share on GIPHY" width="480" height="270" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="

">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

[Corndart]

Yeah you can thank the Republicans for that.

(Manchin and Sinema enter the room)

 

[HD1222]

Yeah you can thank the Republicans for that.

The Dems can’t get their act together either.

 

[JRP3]

Swedens problem is due to the fact that they have government run healthcare. If it was private healthcare, government would not be on the hook for those expenses.. One more reason to stay away from single payer healthcare.

At this point you're either really dumb or just trolling. The countries surrounding Sweden also have single payer healthcare yet they did much better, because they imposed restrictions. More facts you'll continue to ignore.

 

[FloridaSun]

At this point you're either really dumb or just trolling. The countries surrounding Sweden also have single payer healthcare yet they did much better, because they imposed restrictions. More facts you'll continue to ignore.

Sure, that's what you get with collectivism. Solve big government with more big government.
I'm looking here at Florida and we have been doing economically a lot better through the crisis than many states with lock downs and Florida only locked down for a very short time. There have been no statewide restrictions since summer 2020. Of course Florida got hurt by travel restrictions as we are a tourism state but state is doing very well and life has been back to normal for a very long time.

 

[FloridaSun]

What Sweden did was dumb. If every country had followed the same policy that NewZealand & Australia did, we would have gotten rid of Covid a long time back. There wouldn't have been Delta and Omicron variants. Millions would not have died.

Knowing fully well that unrestricted spreading results in variants that escape whatever little immunity contracting the disease gets is beyond dumb.

Australia has virtually turned into a Nazi regime. They have camps that they are forcing many infected into (as also uninfected juat because they had contact with somebody that was infected).. Those camps are run like prisons and you have to stay for weeks even if you test negative. This woman who NEVER tested positive was held there for weeks..

 

[JRP3]

Sure, that's what you get with collectivism.

Yeah, fewer deaths and better economic outcomes. What's the downside again? Oh, right, you want to sacrifice as many lives as possible for the "economy", even if it doesn't result in a better economy. Sweden had more than 5 times the number of deaths per million than Finland and Norway. 5 times. Think about that.

Try to stick to the topic of Sweden vs it's neighbors since that's a more valid apples to apples comparison. Florida has the benefit of a climate conducive to more outdoor activities, though they still managed to have an extremely high spike in infection rates, higher per capita infections than even NY.

 

[shinytop]

I will say this. When the polls open in 22 and 24 I hope every citizen is aware of both the deaths in their state and the measures that their elected officials took or failed to take or even took against saving lives. But for the day to day living the 7 day rolling trend is useful for determining safety in going out in your local community and in travel plans you may make.

 

[FloridaSun]

Of course, FL economy is booming because tourism, no state income tax. Medicare funds so much healthcare for retirees, and now unemployment checks are going to people who prefer to be unvaxed, unemployed and living off the largesse of the rest of us taxpayers... (kidding, not kidding)

Also, many Californians, New Yorkers, New Jersey folks etc. come here to flee their states and they are bringing their money with them. Many are fleeing California..

 

[FloridaSun]

From what I've read the death certificate may say COVID in the list of causes of death, but some states only count COVID deaths if the first line says COVID. It's happening at the state reporting level, not at the doctor or hospital level.



Everyone but people who want a Mad Max world wants people's behavior to be regulated. In an authoritarian state, the regulation can be capricious, but it is often brutal. Examples in history are common from Ghengis Khan to Soviet Russia to Saddam Hussein's Iraq, and the list goes on and on.

In a functioning democratic republic, the state has rules and regulations everyone needs to follow. There is a mechanism to challenge the authority if someone feels it goes to far.

Libertarian ideals shifts that responsibility for regulating behavior to the individual from the government. All but sociopathic libertarians agree that behavior needs to be regulated.

The sweet spot for regulating behavior is where someone's behavior harms someone else or puts someone else at risk of harm. The drunk driving laws were put in place because somebody driving a car while impaired is a risk to others on the same road.

The problem with shifting the responsibility to the individual is that if someone decides that just don't want to respect others' boundaries they will jut go around harming others and not caring. Someone may also decide to draw the line in an unreasonable place as far as their neighbors are concerned. Then there is conflict and/or harm as a result.

Philosophically I am very libertarian. Personally I think I am fairly good at regulating my own behavior so as to limit harm, though not perfect. From experience, some people are not very good at regulating their behavior, even if they want to.

My partner has done domestic violence perpetrator counseling for over a decade. She's found that while about 10-15% are sociopaths who like hurting others, the rest are people who have some kind of severe trauma in their past, whether it be PTSD from the military or something else or abusive parents (most had abusive mothers). Because of the trauma they are hyper-reactive and fly off the handle without even thinking about it. When their brain kicks in later they feel a lot of shame for what they did.

Studies have also shown that about 2% of the population are born sociopaths. They lack the ability to have empathy towards others. Some become criminals, but others learn to play within society's rules enough to stay out of serious trouble. Without outside rules regulating their behavior, they will become monsters.

A society in which everyone regulates their own behavior and there is little need for outside rules is a utopian dream. Maybe we can achieve it someday, we did achieve the utopian dream of the Middle Ages quite well. But right now any attempt to achieve it will result in Lord of the Flies with a handful of sociopaths running everything. Basically Somalia.

A choice to get vaccinated or not, or to social distance or not, or follow any of the other rules and recommendations from this pandemic are really affecting everyone's lives. It's a fact that people who are unvaccinated can get COVID more easily, are sick longer, and can spread it more easily. Those who were vaccinated a while ago are a bit better, but the best group for this are those who are vaccinated and boosted. Even those who are boosted can get it, and it appears that for about 20% of the population the vaccines have more limited effectiveness against Omicron.

For those concerned about getting the economy going again, practicing pandemic hygiene is still vital. A lot of people are getting Omicron and it's causing large numbers of absences from work. Some places around here have reduced the hours they are open because they have staff shortages and some places have closed completely because their entire staff got sick at once. If people were still masking and social distancing, it wouldn't stop the spread, but it would slow it down so the staff shortages weren't as severe.

We're facing severe hospital staff shortages right now because people have quit the profession due to burnout, others are now disabled because of COIVD, and they are losing staff due to infection. There has been some criticism here about firing hospital workers who refused to get vaccinated, and I'm of two minds on that one.

According to the New York Times and HHS ICU bed dashboard, nationally 82+% of US ICU beds are full. According to the HHS, 78.5% of US hospital beds are full right now.

As COVID become endemic (with us always), it looks like Omicron is going to be the variant we have to live with, or something very similar to Omicron. Omicron might turn out to be the most contagious disease we've ever encountered. If it isn't, it's way up there and may be out at the end f the spectrum for how contagious a disease can be. It's less dangerous than previous COVID variants, but it is still much more dangerous than any flu variant.

Since 1918 we have become very good at treating bad cases of the flu. Most often the flu kills by opening up the person to secondary infections like pneumonia that do them in and we're much better at preventing that. COVID tends to kill directly. We have some drugs that can treat an active infection and we will probably get better at that in the future.

But much of the world will never have the drugs to treat the disease, so it's going to run wild in the developing world for a long time to come.

We also know that immunity from vaccine or infection fades over time. Omicron has mutations that get around existing immunity. It's really more like SARS 3. With the virus running rampant in the developing world, it will mutate again the way Omincron did and it will return to the developed world. It's virtually certain that the new variant will be as contagious or more contagious (if possible) to Omicron. It might be milder than Omicron (pandemic viruses in the past have mutated into more minor forms, some of the endemic viruses today may have once been very deadly), but I don't see why a new variant wouldn't be prevented from being more deadly than Omicron. As long as it can spread OK (and stay alive), there is nothing evolutionary preventing it from getting more deadly.

If past is prologue, we will likely see at least some immunity from existing vaccinations. Those who are up to date will fare better than those who are unvaccinated or under vaccinated.

Even if we don't get a killer variant, a virus as bad as Omicron sweeping the population every year will likely cause frequent disruption of the economy and put a constant strain on the healthcare system. Something we will all have to pay for.

Humans live in societies and even if some people want to pretend they are independent of the obligations of their society, they really aren't unless they are living alone in the middle of nowhere. In a pandemic good pandemic hygiene affects everyone, including yourself.

The concept of "my body my choice" is a great one when the decisions a person makes about their body primarily only affects them. I am very libertarian about recreational drug use for example. I never partake (hate the feeling of being high), but others can do what they want as long as they aren't haveint a big impact on my life (don't drive while high for example). When a person is making choices that open them up to be an incubator for a potentially lethal virus, the concept breaks down. Their choices aren't just impacting their lives anymore. It's impacting their neighbors too.

I can't see myself supporting any type of infringent in a persons liberty when it comes to their body. Just like it applies to abortions, the same applies to vaccines. My body, my choice. While I chose to get vaccinated, I support everyone's right not to get vaccinated or being subjected to involuntary tests. Imagine if we had a theocracy where abortion was made illegal and to make sure that women won't have abortions, any woman after puberty is required to have 2 pregnancy tests per week with the reason being to protect the unborn infant. I'd guess that many who support mandatory testing for COVID would not support forced testing for pregnancy if abortion was illegal. My opinion is that BOTH are none of governments business. Our 4th amendment to be secure in our person doesn't just apply to abortion but everything with our body. I'm an absolutist when it comes to personal liberties. Many examples come to mind.. Mandatory HIV testing to protect others from the virus.. Mandatory Genital Herpes testing for everyone to prevent spread.... etc. etc.. I left Austria/Europe in 1997 to come to Florida because I was sick of the nanny state there as also the taxes.

 

[Double-O]

Floridasun,

Don't waste your time responding. There's no reasoning when you share a different point of view than the majority. As I've said before, some vocal members share your point of view as well as some silent members. Some choose to live in fear while others choose to live life with "this." This pandemic is nothing more than an inconvenience at this point.

 

[shinytop]

My son and I had a conversation about the difference if Trump had not been elected. I would like to think it would have been different but the ability of the right to believe conspiracy theories would not have changed. Although it would have been nice to have adult leadership when the crisis hit.

 

[ghlancey3]

I’d like to recruit Tesla and every Tesla owner to support Neil Young and a rising chorus of other musicians in their opposition to Spotify harboring and profiting from anti-science, anti-vaccination podcasters on its network.

I’ve read that Musk supports the science of vaccines and has spoken against the anti-vaxers.

Currently we Tesla owners have little choice but to subscribe to Spotify for our music service. Tesla, if you’re listening, now is the time to drop the Spotify app in favor of SiriusXM and other music streaming services.

 

[coleman567]

Unfortunately, the Venn Diagram of TMC users and Joe Rogan fans is practically a circle...

 

[hatch]

I’d like to recruit Tesla and every Tesla owner to support Neil Young and a rising chorus of other musicians in their opposition to Spotify harboring and profiting from anti-science, anti-vaccination podcasters on its network.

I’ve read that Musk supports the science of vaccines and has spoken against the anti-vaxers.

Currently we Tesla owners have little choice but to subscribe to Spotify for our music service. Tesla, if you’re listening, now is the time to drop the Spotify app in favor of SiriusXM and other music streaming services.

Honest question.. i've been trying to find exactly what Joe Rogan said that was so bad. All i can find is that he is spreading misinformation, but not the ACTUAL misinformation. Can the words in question actually be heard without a subscription (there must be a youtube video out there somewhere), or is there a link to exact transcripts? Just want to judge for myself, and not simply believe characterizations of what he said.

I applaud Neil Young for taking a stand with his position that he believes to be right.

Thanks

 

[Amped412]

This should be a personal decision of whether or not to support Spotify. Don’t punish all Tesla customers because of your personal decisions.

 

[ghlancey3]

This should be a personal decision of whether or not to support Spotify. Don’t punish all Tesla customers because of your personal decisions.

Ok. Keep Spotify. But surely you don’t oppose the rest of us having an option.

 

[Amped412]

Ok. Keep Spotify. But surely you don’t oppose the rest of us having an option.

No. Options are good. You already do have the option though. I didn’t think you could stream Spotify in the car without having a Spotify subscription?

 

[RCM11]

HARD PASS. Spotify has every right in the world to NOT fall victim to a nonsensical power-play pulled by Merk Mercuriadis. What podcast, and what specifically was said on Spotify that has your panties in a bunch?

 

[Tzla3]

Recruit yourself and go get a hobby. Do you actually think anyone will boycott using Spotify because of your opinion??

Opinions are like assholes, everyone’s got one and no one needs another.