Politics - Quarantine Thread

[hatch]

We all know that without Tesla, none of their (minimal) efforts to date would even have happened.

This is the craziest most frustrating thing. Pretending that the company responsible for our current EV path in the world, doesn't even exist. It just would be nice to see a little less denial of reality. It's like a petition for someone in authority, please just verbally acknowledge that the earth is not flat.

 

[2101Guy]

Speaking of...did ANY of the "we can easily produce thousands of ventilators from car parts" ever get made? Even one? And no, Im not talking about the third party CPAP machines that were purchased. Im talking about the promise of MAKING them..

 

[indysurfer]

But we aren't talking about someone who has done something heinous here, this thread is about someone having a fit because Elon personally disagrees with their political or socal standings on one issue or another.

Exactly!

If Elon dares to stray a tiny bit from the hyper-Liberal Silicon Valley POV and criticize heavy handed California regulation that is responsible for eliminating all car manufacturing (except Tesla) from the State - he is being disowned and being called "disgusting" by certain ideologues who are now canceling their car orders.

Interesting reading some folks try to claim that Musk has lost his way and no longer supporting his customers or the mission. As if doubling Tesla production, opening 2 new factories, starting up new battery technology and production lines (let alone all the work at SpaceX) - all happening in the middle of a historic supply chain crisis - is doing nothing or straying from the mission.

Finally, trying to operate a massive automotive factory with thousands of laborers, suppliers and brick and mortar facilities in California is massively more difficult and costly than a San Francisco based software company using Zoom or Teams to virtually manage a lower cost workforce living outside California.

Those of us who live in this State should understand we can't survive if we keep forcing out middle class jobs through onerous government regulations where we are just left with a few high tech jobs and a massive poor underclass resulting in California having the highest poverty rate and highest income inequality in the country.

 

[whisperingshad]

I signed it, the truth hurts lol.

 

[pepperoni]

How about a petition for Musk to stop sending such whiny insecure tweets like “Starts with a T…” It just makes the man seem small. And if he really wants an invitation to the White House, maybe he shouldn’t call Biden a damp sock puppet.

 

[indysurfer]

I get the impression that this feeling was the root of the OP’s post; associating Musk with Tesla is damaging the brand for some of us. At least it is for me.

Yeah - Tesla now has some Conservatives, Libertarians and folks who are not concerned about climate change buying their cars simply due to the performance and quality and that is upsetting some tribal political ideologues.

Just wait until we start seeing Texans and Floridians driving Cybertrucks with trucknuts hanging off the bumpers and flying big American flags. The Model S and X drivers in Palo Alto will be appalled!

But getting all political stripes to want to buy Tesla's is exactly what Musk needs to be successful in his "mission" to transition society off fossil fuels. We can't do it with just rich Liberals buying Teslas. There simply not enough of them...........even in California.

 

[mtndrew1]

Exactly!

If Elon dares to stray a tiny bit from the hyper-Liberal Silicon Valley POV and criticize heavy handed California regulation that is responsible for eliminating all car manufacturing (except Tesla) from the State - he is being disowned and being called "disgusting" by certain ideologues who are now canceling their car orders.

Interesting reading some folks try to claim that Musk has lost his way and no longer supporting his customers or the mission. As if doubling Tesla production, opening 2 new factories, starting up new battery technology and production lines (let alone all the work at SpaceX) - all happening in the middle of a historic supply chain crisis - is doing nothing or straying from the mission.

Finally, trying to operate a massive automotive factory with thousands of laborers, suppliers and brick and mortar facilities in California is massively more difficult and costly than a San Francisco based software company using Zoom or Teams to virtually manage a lower cost workforce living outside California.

Those of us who live in this State should understand we can't survive if we keep forcing out middle class jobs through onerous government regulations where we are just left with a few high tech jobs and a massive poor underclass resulting in California having the highest poverty rate and highest income inequality in the country.

I’m old enough to remember CARB’s EV mandates and use of California taxpayers’ money for EV rebates being referred to in similar language. Hyper liberal San Francisco pipe dreams wasting taxpayer money on technology that would never come to fruition.

I also remember similar whinging when California mandated that legacy automakers would have to buy EV credits from some stupid hippie California EV startup to offset their combustion sales. This was anti-business nonsense that helped drive carmakers out of California.

Of course the hyper liberal San Francisco policies are what allowed the genesis of Tesla in the first place and the subsequent credit exchanges that conservatives were hollering about kept the lights on at Tesla for many, many years.

This is more complex than a car forum can hash out, of course, but had it not been for enforcement of hyper liberal California ZEV policies against the cries of conservative legacy carmakers’ allies there would be no Tesla to argue about right now.

Having built a company off of the extra money we all spent on cars from GM and Toyota which the companies used to buy EV credits from Tesla, and having used my tax money to help millionaires buy $150,000 Model Ss in 2012 to keep the company afloat, it’s a little distasteful to decry California policy on this subject.

 

[mtndrew1]

Yeah - Tesla now has some Conservatives, Libertarians and folks who are not concerned about climate change buying their cars simply due to the performance and quality and that is upsetting some tribal political ideologues.

Just wait until we start seeing Texans and Floridians driving Cybertrucks with trucknuts hanging off the bumpers and flying big American flags. The Model S and X drivers in Palo Alto will be appalled!

But getting all political stripes to want to buy Tesla's is exactly what Musk needs to be successful in his "mission" to transition society off fossil fuels. We can't do it with just rich Liberals buying Teslas. There simply not enough of them...........even in California.

It seems that you have decided to paint those of us who are experiencing a growing distaste of Musk with a pretty broad brush.

I also have a lifted F-150 4x4 (no truck nuts however) and a supersport motorcycle. I am a political moderate. I might argue that losing me as a customer is diametrically opposed to losing a Palo Alto liberal or whatever you’ve decided I am.

 

[indysurfer]

This is more complex than a car forum can hash out, of course, but had it not been for enforcement of hyper liberal California ZEV policies against the cries of conservative legacy carmakers’ allies there would be no Tesla to argue about right now.

I don't dispute any of that. But every other car manufacturer had the same opportunity as Tesla.

I think policies and regulations need to adapt to the times. The Overton window on EV's has dramatically shifted (many thanks to some California regulations and Tesla's performance) where we now have growing/sustainable demand (due to quality/performance) where we don't need as many expensive subsidies and regulations to keep this train running.

California is losing people and businesses at a record rate. Are all these people wrong or misguided that they don't understand their own finances? I don't want to live in an apartheid state with Uber rich living in a few cities along the coasts and massive poverty throughout the rest of the State.

Businesses Are Fleeing California Along With Its Residents, And President Biden Should Pay Attention

California has lost 265 business headquarters since 2018, and the pace of relocations appears to be accelerating.

www.forbes.com

 

[mtndrew1]

I don't dispute any of that. But every other car manufacturer had the same opportunity as Tesla.

I think policies and regulations need to adapt to the times. The Overton window on EV's has dramatically shifted (many thanks to some California regulations and Tesla's performance) where we now have growing/sustainable demand (due to quality/performance) where we don't need as many expensive subsidies and regulations to keep this train running.

California is losing people and businesses at a record rate. Are all these people wrong or misguided that they don't understand their own finances? I don't want to live in an apartheid state with Uber rich living in a few cities along the coasts and massive poverty throughout the rest of the State.

Businesses Are Fleeing California Along With Its Residents, And President Biden Should Pay Attention

California has lost 265 business headquarters since 2018, and the pace of relocations appears to be accelerating.

www.forbes.com

I’m not sure why, but you’ve managed to pivot my (and others’) growing distaste in Musk’s behavior into an offshoot arguing about business retention and wealth inequality in California. The OP is from England.

I can simultaneously be concerned about business overregulation in my state while growing increasingly uneasy with Musk’s public behavior.

For someone decrying tribal ideologies, from my perspective, you seem to be quite entrenched in yours.

 

[indysurfer]

I’m not sure why, but you’ve managed to pivot my (and others’) growing distaste in Musk’s behavior into an offshoot arguing about business retention and wealth inequality in California. The OP is from England.

My first reply to this thread was to point out that Elon Musk trying to operate a massive manufacturing business (as opposed to a software company with remote employees) in a HOSTILE California regulatory/economic climate has a way of changing a person's POV.........especially on politics and regulations. Living in California the last 25 years has certainly moved my politics from left of center.

Don't dress it up as anything else, some people simply don't like his political POV (let alone moving to Texas) and are now attacking him personally calling him disgusting and acting like he lost his way.

 

[DanDi58]

How about a petition for Musk to stop sending such whiny insecure tweets like “Starts with a T…” It just makes the man seem small. And if he really wants an invitation to the White House, maybe he shouldn’t call Biden a damp sock puppet.

I agree, sometimes he needs to act like the CEO of multiple multi-billion dollar enterprises.

 

[al36]

Not long ago, I was one of the many whom would vigorously stand in defence of Elon Musk, through all the tribulations, verbal spats, petulant undertones, "moron" tourettes, and whatever issue of the day that would cut his ever so thin a skin. I would argue that this genius of the present was forever trapped in the mind of an adolescent boy, and thus he should be given a bit of latitude to grow, to change, to evolve. I often argued and still believe that he deserve the Nobel Prize for single-handedly changing an entire industry. It was not long ago that the auto industry walked and spoke in lockstep. Electrification was always 20 to 30 years out, it was not so far in the distant future they would promise and, yet they insisted that the infrastructure was neither feasible nor was there enough interest from the buying public for such developments, and even if there was, the technology was simply not at hand.

That is until someone put their money and their considerable knowledge to the test.

And yes, their money also meant tax payer funds, public investment, and a host of governmental policies and regulations that allowed a fledgling entity such as Tesla to even have a chance.

And thus when I invested in Tesla and bought their cars, I did so because the mission statement of the company aligned with my values. I overlooked Elon's shortcomings as a human being for the greater good. No, not merely my bank account, rather it was the mission Tesla was embarking on and how it would benefit all of mankind. I believed that then and I believe this still. Except now I can no longer excuse Elon's behaviour as some aberrant synapses of Asberger's manifesting in public view. Now he seems to relish every chance to act out his worst impulses, every pubescent retort, petty row, constant aggrieved posture against some injustice real of imagined, and his ever inability to actually be a man, and take the higher road. Now that his wealth has exceeded the limits of societal propriety, so has his inability to conduct and comport himself in any manner resembling a functioning adult. He can wail against what he deems socialistic or over-regulation or the ineptitude of bureaucracies, yet it was not long ago that he praised and greatly benefited from such policies that enabled him and Tesla to flourish. Not long ago, Elon spoke glowingly about countries such as Norway for their heavy handed mandates for electrification and sustainability.

Sadly what was once a limitless mind that promised such enlightening possibilities for all of mankind is now nothing more than a masquerading stunted teenage man with all the entrapped complexes and emotional limitations of a 7 year old misfit.

Months ago, I divested myself of my investiture and today I cancelled my order for the Plaid. I will soon sell our Model S vehicles, and I will miss the driving experience. I will not abandon electrification. I have placed an order for a Rivian and I will look to Volvo in the coming months. And whilst I was rarely on this site, I want to thank everyone for their assistance when I had a question and the general civility of this forum.

I do not expect that my words or sentiments will move many if anyone at all, nor will it affect Tesla's bottom line, yet every wave begins with a ripple.

Cheers to you all.

I view Elon as the Tesla advertising budget and arguably he is a bargain as such, arguably no other CEO has generated so much publicity ever. I don't pay any attention to what he says but out of curiosity what is it specifically that has alienated you so much compared to his previous behavior? I read the biography of him and did find it interesting. Think of the thousands of people who work at Tesla and all the great engineers that have created the products and ideas, Elon is just one part of it.

 

[CRIMSON_DATE]

This is more complex than a car forum can hash out, of course, but had it not been for enforcement of hyper liberal California ZEV policies against the cries of conservative legacy carmakers’ allies there would be no Tesla to argue about right now.

The Economy will always dictate what people buy. If gas is cheap and ICE cars are $20-$25K ICE cars will remain. Most people who are looking for basic transportation to and from work can care less if it is ICE or BEV they just want a car. BEV's are getting more affordable but they really aren't there yet . If California wants to give away its taxpayers money so people who are already more welloff then most will buy a BEV well thats fine because lets face it , Teslas are not affordable to most, they are luxery cars and chances are that the people getting the rebates would have bought the car regardless just like they do today.

Its Huberis to think that California and its policies are the reason that Tesla was successful. Tesla and their innovation is what made Tesla successful.

 

[mtndrew1]

My first reply to this thread was to point out that Elon Musk trying to operate a massive manufacturing business (as opposed to a software company with remote employees) in a HOSTILE California regulatory/economic climate has a way of changing a person's POV.........especially on politics and regulations. Living in California the last 25 years has certainly moved my politics from left of center.

Don't dress it up as anything else, some people simply don't like his political POV (let alone moving to Texas) and are now attacking him personally calling him disgusting and acting like he lost his way.

He’s publicly picking and choosing the hostile regulations he’s embracing and broadcasting it on Twitter as a noble cause.

Building a company (entirely, financially) on hostile regulations, throwing a tantrum, then moving shop to a place with hostile regulations to the degree that he can’t even sell his own cars there is pretty wild to me. Of course he’s free to do as he pleases and if it works for his business then he made the right choice. But as a customer it’s going to be a consideration for me next time.

Public enthusiastic support of a minority cavalcade of truckers who are mooching gas money on gofundme while raiding soup kitchens and flying confederate flags against effigies of the hanging of the prime minister is…not great for brand identity. As a customer this comes across as support of January 6th-ish behavior.

Regardless of the actual policy debates I don’t like my automobile associated with Musk‘s ideological whims. It will affect my next vehicle purchase. I doubt it will matter much to the success of the company but if you immediately take that as endorsement of hyper liberalism and have made a decision on my policy stances then you may be missing my point and might consider some reflection on your reactions.

 

[Tam]

...

I’m very bothered with Tesla being associated with a CEO who tweeted a Hitler meme. It might be funny to Tesla but it is nothing funny to me when about 6 million Jews were systemically robbed, tortured, left hungry then murdered.

The very funny comedienne Whoopi Goldberg was suspended for 2 weeks and Tesla should not be rewarded for such behaviors.

 

[mtndrew1]

Its Huberis to think that California and its policies are the reason that Tesla was successful. Tesla and their innovation is what made Tesla successful.

Not the reason it was successful, the reason the company exists in the first place. An important distinction representing that the regulation which created Tesla was initially fought tooth and nail

 

[mtndrew1]

I view Elon as the Tesla advertising budget and arguably he is a bargain as such, arguably no other CEO has generated so much publicity ever. I don't pay any attention to what he says but out of curiosity what is it specifically that has alienated you so much compared to his previous behavior? I read the biography of him and did find it interesting. Think of the thousands of people who work at Tesla and all the great engineers that have created the products and ideas, Elon is just one part of it.

Apologies for the hijack since you weren’t asking me, but I think I can add something here.

When I’m in a parking lot the reactions to my car that I cringe at are “Elon is such a prick” and the like.

On my Chevy nobody ever saw the badge and said “Mary Barra sucks” (I think she does) and my Nissan never got “Carlos Ghosn is a criminal” (he literally is).

What makes Musk’s antics unique is that because he is the polarizing face of the whole company, that’s what garners reactions. I don’t want anyone to have any opinion on my car whatsoever and uninvited opinions from acquaintances and passers by is getting fatiguing.

I’m at the point now where if someone brings up cars I brush right past it so that I don’t need to bring up that I drive a Tesla. In the past I used to evangelize a bit because I was so proud of the work that the company was doing.

 

[jabloomf1230]

I’m very bothered with Tesla being associated with a CEO who tweeted a Hitler meme. It might be funny to Tesla but it is nothing funny to me when about 6 million Jews were systemically robbed, tortured, left hungry then murdered.

The very funny comedienne Whoopi Goldberg was suspended for 2 weeks and Tesla should not be rewarded for such behaviors.

I can see your point but where does this thought control mindset stop? Can I still watch Downfall parodies? In the context of NHTSA punching Elon in the eye with the rolling stop recall, the tone of his recent tweets should be viewed in that context.

 

[Electric700]

While I think Elon Musk should stay away from extreme references, he (and those at Tesla + customers, investors and supporters) have done amazing things for EVs and I am thankful for that. They are the norm for millions of people now, and he's helped to make it easy to charge and maintain them. Regarding his vaccine comments, mandates have helped save lives. Look at Smallpox (a terrible disease):

...smallpox was wiped out worldwide by 1980 — the result of an unprecedented global immunization campaign.... (From Mayo Clinic)

I believe being a little bit more diplomatic can only help him.