Have you considered that using Tesla as an example for an industry to follow when it doesn't really offer a vehicle for under $50k is elitist and out of touch? There's no conspiracy here, just simple math. The average person makes less in a year than what a Tesla costs.
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Politics - Quarantine Thread
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Tam
Well-Known Member
Leadership roles come with responsibility. As a little child, I can joke with my little friends with laughter but as an adult worker, I would be fired for sexual harassment.
Doing the job in a role in our society is important.
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Oh no suspended for a WHOLE TWO weeks. How about FIRE her. If she was a white male they would have fired her the second after the atrocity was said. The complete abysmal sad state of our country is she even has a job after saying what she did. It is DISGUSTING.
Maybe Elon should stop his arrogance towards U.S. Government agencies like the SEC and NHTSA. You can't continue to ignore NHTSA inquiries and recommendations, or make a fool of SEC rulings, then complain the Government is against you. Love 'em or hate 'em, if you do business in any country, you need to abide by the governing bodies. If you continue to try and show them up and think you can do whatever you want, they'll get you back one way or another. I'm not saying this is the reason why here, but I certainly wouldn't be going out of my way to help a business who's CEO thinks he doesn't need to play by the rules.
I agree with your general statement, but this case is different since the current government is operating in a different universe that ignores what is actually happening and what people really need.
I'm not a political person, but I believe that all politicians are out of touch with what is really going on. They do whatever makes themselves look good to be re-elected.
That's factually inaccurate. California has not lost any population from one census to the next. California gained over 5% population between 2010 and 2020, and only lost about 183k people in 2020 due to the pandemic and people working remotely.
Hostile regulations? California's regulations made Tesla what it is today.
By the way, it seems Elon, despite stating that climate change is the greatest threat to humanity today except for AI, still has an oversized carbon footprint himself: How many Teslas worth of carbon emissions did he just negate by flying a G650 to LNY instead of flying to OGG commercially and taking the ferry from Lahaina to Manele Harbor?
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RD36
Member
Thank you for your question and this will probably be my last post on the matter, however since you enquired, I shall answer. First of all, I believe a CEO must serve as the brand ambassador, and whilst even the most popular of figures in the public domain will have their detractors, Elon's achievements defied even the loftiest of hopes and expectations. I recall during the introductory unveiling of the Model S concept, and you had analysts from both Goldman and JP Morgan (underwriters no less for the IPO) opining that success for Tesla would be challenging and privately confident that Tesla would not survive. It has, and thrived at that. Tesla and Elon have changed an entire industry. Not unlike Apple, (and with a far greater challenge having no engineering or manufacturing experience in sphere) challenged an entire industry as Apple did with the iPhone and now if an a manufacturer is not accelerating their EV development, the industry experts now question their relevance and going concern (sustainability). That is a breathtaking reversal that was unfathomable by so many experts not long ago.
I had hoped and whilst he will certainly be entitled to take a victory lap or two, that somehow he would grow as a person and recognise that his success was aided by so many brilliant engineers and dedicated layman, and perhaps he would even take a more egalitarian view of his new status.
A brand ambassador does not mean he or she must lack personality. In fact, I believe someone's humanity is good for business and the brand regardless of disposition. Yet there is a vast gulf between personality and toxicity.
Elon has benefited greatly from hyper "liberal" policies, "socialistic" initiatives, and the most basic "crowd funding" movement; The Model S made Tesla possible. And I knew enough about Elon to realise he was never a liberal at heart and that was no concern of mine. However somewhere along the way he selectively forgot what enabled his success. Below is a short list of exceptions that I could no longer tolerate.
California and various other progressive countries gave Tesla the fertile ground (via policies and tax incentives) to succeed. However when their policies no longer suited his agenda, his petulance, distorted view of reality, and vindictiveness was in full view. Moving Tesla from CA to TX, a state where Tesla is not allowed to sell his cars is the epitome of biting the hand that feeds you.
As the brand ambassador, I had hoped he would embrace other manufacturers entering the EV realm as he did early on. And then it would have been fair game to eviscerate them based on engineering and performance. However now, it seems he takes exception that these legacy makers and new entrants enjoy the same government sponsored benefits Tesla enjoyed. His libertarian sensibilities disappear as he routinely gripes about his competitors and still believes that Tesla should be entitled to some undefined non-existent mandated government advantage whilst simultaneously decrying government "overreach".
Those whom have opined that Elon and Tesla should be treated as disparate entities, I could not agree more. Yet Elon makes that impossible since he treats and operates Tesla as an extension of his ego, will, voice, behaviour, and an appendage. Thus the company has come to symbolise him in ways that I can no longer tolerate.
His stance on the pandemic, citing caricatures such as Rogan (a self-described moron) and far flung conspiracies on Covid-19 are unforgivable to me. Taking personal exceptions with mandates is one matter, yet undermining the efforts to deliver society out of this pandemic is entirely another, and then to posit Tesla as the bargaining chip to gain more favourable terms is unconscionable.
His stance on taxes and paying his fair share is something I find unconscionable especially in the wake of such suffering. Paying $10 billion in taxes on nearly a $300 billion dollar fortune is a bargain by any standard. Yet he seems to be confused by the notion that his success is not his alone and this is matter that I can debate endlessly yet I shall leave it as is.
And then of course the cringe worthy confrontations, twitter rows, spats, and unseemly exchanges he engages in are beyond the pale. Aligning his sensibilities with far right elements that not long ago would have done away with him if they could is perplexing at best.
Where is Elon's real courage to take on Goldman and JP Morgan analysts whom in 2019 said that Tesla's intellectual property was worth $7 a share......I suppose taking on Elizabeth Warren and the like is his definition of manhood....right.
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Is there a politics sub in this forum? Just sayin haven’t seen anyone mention the model Y once in this thread.
Srad600Volt
Member
Not sure but Oh man, this thread took a dive real fast...
Edit: removed my last statement 'cause it just doesn't really matter...
mangrove79
Member
The OP is looking for a saint in a CEO, but saint-like people don't revolutionize the world. What Elon Musk is doing, and has been doing, is perhaps the greatest endeavor in the past hundred years. How EVs have shaped the conversation on climate change and driving the efforts to save the planet is in no small part to Musk's work in the past 20 years. It may sound like hyperbole, but it's pretty hard to overstate that benefit to the world. Of course, climate deniers will not see his work as a benefit, but a burden. But now that he has accomplished all this, people just take it for granted. I'm not arguing that past accomplishments can cancel out future wrongdoings, but at least for me, I haven't seen anything strategically wrong with what Musk is doing.
Yes, customer service sucks, but are traditional dealerships better? Yes, build quality is spotty at best, but was any automaker any better back when they were 15 years old? Yes, he's squabbling with the government over regulation and incentives, and even recognition, but when is fighting for an infant EV industry a bad thing? Yes, his vaccination remarks are strange, but only time will tell who's right. I find myself increasingly believing in normalization over mandates.
It's perfectly fine for OP to change minds and switch cars, but I can hardly agree with the observation that Musk was responsible for this diverging of ideology. I feel it's more likely that OP was never a true believer to begin with, and some temporary setbacks are proving the point. No offense, just my opinion.
Yes, customer service sucks, but are traditional dealerships better? Yes, build quality is spotty at best, but was any automaker any better back when they were 15 years old? Yes, he's squabbling with the government over regulation and incentives, and even recognition, but when is fighting for an infant EV industry a bad thing? Yes, his vaccination remarks are strange, but only time will tell who's right. I find myself increasingly believing in normalization over mandates.
It's perfectly fine for OP to change minds and switch cars, but I can hardly agree with the observation that Musk was responsible for this diverging of ideology. I feel it's more likely that OP was never a true believer to begin with, and some temporary setbacks are proving the point. No offense, just my opinion.
In the end who gets to determine what is toxic, what is truth ?
I disagree on just about all of your points but I think I'll leave it here as well because its exactly what I thought it was, a political divide.
If Anything I am glad that Elon has continued to speak his mind and stand by his friends and hasn't succumb to pressure to suppress his voice.
I have question that deviates little bit of this topic.
If in case bill passes and federal tax credit is applicable for Tesla also in 2022, will that apply for the cars that are delivered in 2022 whole year?
or is it only applicable for cars that are delivered after tax credit comes to active?
If in case bill passes and federal tax credit is applicable for Tesla also in 2022, will that apply for the cars that are delivered in 2022 whole year?
or is it only applicable for cars that are delivered after tax credit comes to active?
mangrove79
Member
It's kinda like recognizing vaccine development companies without mentioning either Pfizer or Moderna. "Astra-Zeneca and Johnson & Johnson, thank you for making the best vaccines and being a leader in the fight against Covid!" Does that sound right to you?
RD36
Member
A true believer? Right, Elon is not God, nor do I follow other men. I do not follow anyone. I believe in the mission statement, I believe in the achievement. However I will never abdicate my obligation to critical thinking because I admire someone.
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RD36
Member
Truth has no version, perspectives perhaps, yet truth is not subject to versions. If you cannot decipher between truth and allegiance to any person over reality, that is something you must examine within yourself.
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RD36
Member
This is my last and final post. I wish everyone well and I hope that in the coming years the choices in EV will so plentiful that the merits of a purchase will be solely based on quality, performance, style, and every other metric that propels this movement forward. I also hope that Tesla thrives regardless of whom is at the helm. Whilst I will watch from afar as long as Elon is at the helm, I want to thank everyone on this forum once more.
May the new year bring you closer to your loved ones and enemies alike. Squeeze the ones you love, and bite the ones you don't a bit less.
Cheers
May the new year bring you closer to your loved ones and enemies alike. Squeeze the ones you love, and bite the ones you don't a bit less.
Cheers
mangrove79
Member
But the two Biden mentioned also don't offer anything under $50k, and won't for many years. Tesla has M3 that starts at $35k as of 2020 at least which I don't understand why you excluded. I had two friends who bought it for their graduating children, both came in under $40k with tax. Besides, Tesla at least has plans for the M2. And the top-line Silverado is over $100k. Your simple math does not figure into Biden's speech at all.
Tam
Well-Known Member
It mentions Biden who is a political figure and Tesla's tweet should show some restraint and leadership and quit tweeting a Hitler meme.
mangrove79
Member
You're mixing admiration with worship. It's fine to admire someone without losing critical thinking. I admire Einstein for being 80 years ahead of his time. I admire Tom Brady for being the GOAT of NFL QBs. Do I lose critical thinking? No. No one said Elon is God, so your point is moot. Only those who believe in God and Jesus have lost the ability of critical thinking. When someone mentions that they're true believers and you automatically think it's in the person not the mission, then something is wrong with your critical thinking. LOL.
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