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Politics - Quarantine Thread

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No.

(weird formatting) No. Masks are good at preventing droplets from penetrating outward, less so for aerosol. Yes, you did derive some benefit, though less with Omicron. Poorly fitting masks and cloth masks were mostly useless, and still are.
N95s work, which is what they should have been recommending all along. The Physics of the N95 Face Mask
However, mask recommendations are not without mental health and child development issues
There are no child development issues with masks. It's mainly parents acting like children who cause the issues.
My main beef with our gov't doctors and the "science" is 1. how they lied to us to protect logistics, and 2. their use of new vaccinations and how they define "vaxxed". Vaccinations/shots expose your immune system to specific (or range) of antigens that prime an immune response for the correct antibodies so that your immune system is ready to go with the those antibodies should it be exposed to the real thing at some time later. For COVID, the antigen they chose is the spike protein of the original COVID-19, and they chose a delivery mechanism never tried large scale. But the gov't has completely ignored a very large population that had the virus AND received a vax, like me, which is the same and/or better than exposure from vaxx x 2. The data supporting that came during Delta and is widely available, which is why I got vaxxed x 1. The gov't does not recognize my immune status, including Medicare, and I am therefore required to get a second vaxx AFTER infection + vax, excluding any "booster", if I wish to participate in that program (infection + full dose vaxx x 2). There is no infectious disease I know of where that is a clinical recommendation.
So here's the thing. Governments are increasingly requiring boosters after you are double vaxxed; Hawaii is going to require a booster shot to be considered fully vaxxed and if you're not vaxxed and boosted, you'll need to provide a negative test or sit in quarantine. We know that being vaccinated twice against the ancestral strain doesn't confer sufficient immunity to prevent infection; what makes you think actual infection with the ancestral strain (or even with Delta) confers sufficient immunity against Omicron? The issue here is that unless you had the RNA from your positive test sequenced, there's no way to know exactly which strain you were infected with. So it's easier to just require a booster rather than have an entire flow chart that tells people whether or not they'd be considered fully vaxxed that changes constantly depending on what strain is currently dominant and what new data they're getting.
Omicron boosters for low risk groups that already have a low risk of hospitalization/death with the same serum that is incorrectly coded for the Omicron spike?
It makes sense. Your body produces antibodies against mutated versions of what it thinks is attacking it. It works kind of like a bell curve, with the center of the curve (highest antibody levels) on the actual attacker, and as the number of mutations gets greater and greater, fewer antibodies are produced, but they are still there. Somatic hypermutation - Wikipedia It's kind of like using shot instead of a single bullet; you can hit birds that you're not aimed directly at, but as the bird gets farther from the crosshairs, the probability of hitting it gets lower, and you're likely to have to take more shots to hit it. But yeah, we need Omicron specific boosters because the protection would be stronger and last longer.
So, you'll have to pardon my long post and my skepticism of gov't physicians and scientists who have this power over you.
My issue is with CEOs like Elon who throw tantrums like a 2 year old over having to shut down their factory due to public health measures. I'm disappointed that Alameda County caved. The Alameda County Sheriffs office should have physically removed Elon from the building and thrown him in jail, and shut down the entire factory (instead of just allowing it to operate at reduced capacity) for a while as a penalty for disobeying the order. He wasn't ever told that Tesla wasn't allowed to operate the factory at all, just that the number of employees who could be in there would be capped at a certain level. As it was, when he reopened the factory against public health orders, it resulted in more than 400 COVID-19 cases among employees. For Elon to be railing against the government in California and saying that it's trying to put Tesla out of business, etc., when it was the California government that basically kept his company afloat in the early days? I can't think of a better example of someone biting the hand that feeds him. No one, not the most powerful politicians, nor the CEOs of the biggest companies, should be above the law.
 
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A lot of talk here is using the benefit of "hindsight". Also, lots of talk about just the USA. Like it was ONLY the USA doing lockdowns, mandatory masking, vaccines, etc.

The world is a LOT bigger than just the USA and USA politics, people..
Was it sweden who took that initial approach of "we are going to just live life normally and let herd immunity fix everything".

That worked about as well as "hey relax everyone..because by April? This thing will just magically disappear. Like a miracle". worked....
 
Trying not to get embroiled in the politics here, but to throw an opinion in on the Elon/Tesla situation, I agree with those that are offended at the childish nature of many of his public messages, but in some areas I think he shows a surprising amount of restraint. Biden deserved far worse than he got from Musk for the blatant and egregious disrespect of Tesla's accomplishments within the EV industry. It's a fact that GM and the rest of the world wouldn't give a single hoot about EVs if Tesla weren't now a trillion dollar company threatening their market share.

I also agree with others dislike of celebrities (and Musk is certainly one, thanks in no small part to the mainstream media for reporting every single time his world's weathiest person status shifts) using their platform as a mouthpiece to push political messages, regardless of which side of the aisle they come down on, but that's not what really bothers me as a Tesla owner. After all, I don't use twitter and can easily tune him out. But what I find most objectionable about Musk is what he's doing to the car company.

Tesla used to give a crap about what the people wanted, but Musk is doing to Tesla what Chris Bangle did to BMW back in the early 2000s: forcing his vision on customers at the expense of pursing a generally appreciated product (yes, I understand you can't please everyone). Yoke steering; elimination of buttons to an extent that goes well beyond any sensible limit; eliminating features simply because people don't use them often enough; sweeping, almost universally negative UI overhauls that are forced upon the customer; vehicle design that heavily (and increasingly) focuses on FSD tech a) is broken, and b) has not materialized despite nearly a decade of promises to this effect. The list goes on. "Almost all input is error" is such an asinine statement on the subject of UI and human factors engineering that I don't believe I could achieve common ground to even have a discussion on vehicle design philosophy with such an individual.

And the prioritization of growth and FSD (that I'm convinced will never achieve true level 3 (let alone 5) autonomy because of Musk's unflinching support of flawed tech) over absolutely every other aspect of the auto sales business is even worse, especially when the growth itself is what is exacerbating all the issues with sustainment. Issues such as overwhelmed service centers; not enough customer support live agents forcing all customer engagements to be handled through detestable in-app messaging and requests; massive spare parts shortages (acknowledged and publically deprioritized shortages!); products that release with features missing that were promised at time of purchase; and the gradual erosion of customer perks such as referral bonuses, limited free supercharging, limited free premium connectivity, and more restricted home deliveries. The utterly broken order and delivery process was somewhat acceptable (or at least understandable) when the company was a small fry, and supporting the Tesla business model was tantamount to crowd funding a novel concept of automobile purchase. This is not so anymore, and now that Tesla is established, Musk needs to put someone at the helm that understands to how to run a car business.

Elon should turn over Tesla to a real CEO and go run his rocket company.
I don't care about his childish sense of humor. He can meme away.

I care about other bullying behavior.

But much more than that I care that their customer service and communication totally sucks and there doesn't appear to have been anything done to fix it. Even though this is the fundamental way they're going to have their customer base collapse. Answering that by saying they want to avoid the need for service ignores reality.

More personally, I care that they have made dumb software decisions that eliminated functionality that means their vehicles don't meed our wants and needs and we'll never buy a Tesla:
- A dumb cruise control mode that will always work, never be disabled due to sensor problems, and doesn't suffer from phantom braking.
- Configurable regen because my and my wife's preferences differ.

We can't be the only ones.

PS Their charge scheduling is worse than in my 2013 Volt.
 
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It's my understanding that ventilators of the sort we use on covid patients are quite a bit more sophisticated than something jamming air into someone's lungs. It has to take a lot into account to apply the right amount of pressure in the right rhythm or it risks blowing out someone's lungs.

This was the fundamental misconception that Musk had when he proposed his solution.
There is no special ventilator required for covid patients. They are all standardly-sophisticated machines. The ones being considered from "car parts" were for emergency purposes to have *some* ability to mechanically ventilate a patient in need while you waited for a standard machine. We had such simple devices in the military to have some ability to ventilate an acutely injured soldier with a very small device that was easy to carry with one hand. Once transferred to a larger facility, they switch to the larger more sophisticated machines.
 
so no ventilators from car parts AND no special device for the cave in thailand that was also promised. And no NYC to LA with no human intervention by 2019. (Im detecting a pattern..)
Got it
To be fair, he's an overachiever and fails on some of his ideas. Only stating the failures would be a pretty biased outlook though. He's also had many successes, and very important ones. Historically important figures tend to have many failures, but they're overshadowed by the important successes.
 
I too canceled my Model X order recently. I had originally placed the order last year around March, when things were looking up for FSD software deployment. Seeing how much the beta is lacking at this stage in the game is sorely disappointing. What is more disappointing is owning a 2017 Model S, that still doesn't have the equipment to participate in the beta. I'm pretty certain they have known for quite some time HW2 cars would need camera upgrades, but chose not to do these upgrades until there was a critical need, i.e., as beta rolled out, many of us legacy owners who had upgraded to HW3 computers and gotten MCU2 upgraded at our own discretion started to question why our group was excluded. It's been months since the "button" has been deployed, and they are still very slow to do these camera upgrades. This general overall dismissive attitude has affected my opinion of Tesla in a negative way and don't plan on giving them another $150k to make me miserable after a few months and they discover something else is needed, or in general do something that changes the vehicle in a positive way that retroactively won't be addressed. I think the biggest lesson I've learned in my ownership, is not to pre-buy anything. Musk is a hero to most of you, and I get it; from where I'm sitting and the hard work I had to put in to earn enough to buy a Model S, he conned me good. Not going to happen again...
 
N95s work, which is what they should have been recommending all along. The Physics of the N95 Face Mask

There are no child development issues with masks. It's mainly parents acting like children who cause the issues.

So here's the thing. Governments are increasingly requiring boosters after you are double vaxxed; Hawaii is going to require a booster shot to be considered fully vaxxed and if you're not vaxxed and boosted, you'll need to provide a negative test or sit in quarantine. We know that being vaccinated twice against the ancestral strain doesn't confer sufficient immunity to prevent infection; what makes you think actual infection with the ancestral strain (or even with Delta) confers sufficient immunity against Omicron? The issue here is that unless you had the RNA from your positive test sequenced, there's no way to know exactly which strain you were infected with. So it's easier to just require a booster rather than have an entire flow chart that tells people whether or not they'd be considered fully vaxxed that changes constantly depending on what strain is currently dominant and what new data they're getting.

It makes sense. Your body produces antibodies against mutated versions of what it thinks is attacking it. It works kind of like a bell curve, with the center of the curve (highest antibody levels) on the actual attacker, and as the number of mutations gets greater and greater, fewer antibodies are produced, but they are still there. Somatic hypermutation - Wikipedia It's kind of like using shot instead of a single bullet; you can hit birds that you're not aimed directly at, but as the bird gets farther from the crosshairs, the probability of hitting it gets lower, and you're likely to have to take more shots to hit it. But yeah, we need Omicron specific boosters because the protection would be stronger and last longer.

My issue is with CEOs like Elon who throw tantrums like a 2 year old over having to shut down their factory due to public health measures. I'm disappointed that Alameda County caved. The Alameda County Sheriffs office should have physically removed Elon from the building and thrown him in jail, and shut down the entire factory (instead of just allowing it to operate at reduced capacity) for a while as a penalty for disobeying the order. He wasn't ever told that Tesla wasn't allowed to operate the factory at all, just that the number of employees who could be in there would be capped at a certain level. As it was, when he reopened the factory against public health orders, it resulted in more than 400 COVID-19 cases among employees. For Elon to be railing against the government in California and saying that it's trying to put Tesla out of business, etc., when it was the California government that basically kept his company afloat in the early days? I can't think of a better example of someone biting the hand that feeds him. No one, not the most powerful politicians, nor the CEOs of the biggest companies, should be above the law.
I should have been more specific. N95 masks work when fitted and worn properly. They must be fitted and tested with no air leaks. I have a store-bought N95 mask on my desk now. How do you think it performs compared to the real fitted and tested one I have in my desk?

Regarding children, the data are accumulating, and deficits in development may be short term, but was it warranted? Same with lockdowns. No harm done?

Hawaii is the perfect example of of how the inner fascists in gov't will do whatever they want based on dumb science under penalty of the stick, and how easily a supposedly free population will voluntarily submit. They will consider "fully vaccinated" as vax x 2 + boost (again, they ignored everyone who have had the real thing and vaxxed)?--for a COVID-19 virus that no longer exists, and for an Omicron virus that has a low risk of hospitalization/death for low-risk patients, but a modest increased risk of hospitalization for high-risk patients. You can verify this data. So, if you were a real doctor, or a real scientist, or even an above average thinker, who should get the vax and boost? Everyone including kids under penalty of mandate, or the high-risk groups? The answer should be obvious, and it has been obvious until COVID turned smart brains to mush. Antibody test are notoriously unreliable and even the CDC website states that they should not be used as a clinical measure of "immunity" or exposure, or whatever they state. So much for following the science, eh?

Regarding immune response, your explanation is not quite how it works. In natural immunity, you immune system sees the exposed antigenic spectrum of the virus (spike, capsid/envelope, external proteins/lipids, etc. I can't remember the exact structures), where as the vaccine presents only the spike protein. So if the COVID -19 spike protein is sequenced ABCDEFG, your immune system makes antibodies based on that sequence. Picture "lock and key". Omicron spike is different, say ABCDZZZ. Your immune system may see the piece that it recognizes ABCD, but an important piece is missing. That is why people can and do get Omicron even after vaxx x 10. The vax is the wrong sequence for a proper response, no matter how many times you give it. So yes you will get some response, but now you weigh risk/cost:benefit. No vax is benign, and there is a small but real possibility of myocarditis especially in kids, Guillian-Barre, lost productivity, etc. Is that small improvement for healthy people significant and worth the cost, risk of short or long term effects (which are not yet known)?

You said: "So it's easier to just require a booster rather than have an entire flow chart that tells people whether or not they'd be considered fully vaxxed.."

Yes, that is exactly correct. It is simply easier. How's that for science?
 
I too canceled my Model X order recently. I had originally placed the order last year around March, when things were looking up for FSD software deployment. Seeing how much the beta is lacking at this stage in the game is sorely disappointing. What is more disappointing is owning a 2017 Model S, that still doesn't have the equipment to participate in the beta. I'm pretty certain they have known for quite some time HW2 cars would need camera upgrades, but chose not to do these upgrades until there was a critical need, i.e., as beta rolled out, many of us legacy owners who had upgraded to HW3 computers and gotten MCU2 upgraded at our own discretion started to question why our group was excluded. It's been months since the "button" has been deployed, and they are still very slow to do these camera upgrades. This general overall dismissive attitude has affected my opinion of Tesla in a negative way and don't plan on giving them another $150k to make me miserable after a few months and they discover something else is needed, or in general do something that changes the vehicle in a positive way that retroactively won't be addressed. I think the biggest lesson I've learned in my ownership, is not to pre-buy anything. Musk is a hero to most of you, and I get it; from where I'm sitting and the hard work I had to put in to earn enough to buy a Model S, he conned me good. Not going to happen again...
You purchased FSD for the S and they didn't upgrade it for free ?
 
Yeaaaarrrrr Mao Inslee in his quest to crush us all and his hollow promise to support EV's, all that extra $$$$ is going into that rail, not the chargers he kept promising a few years ago, the guy that was going to get us cheap tabs,,,got ran the F++k over, !!!!!!!!! I was in hawaii they nail you on tags cause vehicle by weight, not value, moved here, got WA plates, and they said, 2 electric vehicles, started laughing, like I lost at the casino.
 
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So right now the socialist thievery of Washington state is going to A) install a GPS in your car and rob you every mile (older EV's are "supposed to be except") I'll believe Inslee ignores a new tax when ocean front property in Idaho is avail, B) you submit a quarterly milage via and APP, cause everyone drives with their phones. For someone that wants to be a leader in the green movement, he owns 6 cars not including his state funded limo, 3 very large houses...oops sorry got off the highway...
that's the two big ones our capitol is leaning on, now EV'S should pitch in for the roads, and for charging infrastructure. the last 5 years 20% went to public chargers, the other 80 went to rail. crap, sorry, I keep getting distracted, cause you have a great question @MidnightTerror, but, yea, in 2019 there was a big thing at the capitol on how were going to invest heavy on EV's, all the big car dealers in king county told Inslee no campaign money if they don't punish the EV sales....2020 there was supposed to be a sweet tax cut for clean cars...remember?
 
So Washington State, the purported land of climate change awareness, is once again seeking higher than gas tax fees on EVs.

The new proposal is 2.5 cents per mile. That is equivalent tax to a 25 mpg vehicle roughly and it would be cheaper taxwise to driveany gas SUVs.


This is in addition to the annual EV taxes already of $225 plus standard registration fees plus an increased weight fee due to the batteries.

Some new rebates are being proposed but they don't apply to most of the people considering EVs. This state continues to be backwards thinking with regards to climate change with the early elimination of EV exemptions, the elimination of solar credits, and these ever increasing taxes / fees on green vehicles.

Contact your Congressperson. It's our only hope in WA state of avoiding yet another higher than gas tax charge in addition to our already inflated EV fees.
Hea man, again sorry I highjacked your thread, I do believe I apologized for bringing politics in this, I really do, @Corndart you liked a bunch of my other posts, not sure why you have such pent up anger....I'm sure in your mind Inslee is a great guy, I have a problem with anyone in office who takes off to run for higher office while we are paying them, and almost a half mill in security, then comes back like they were on vaca. that's douchy, then makes more hollow promises to help the electric car community. @Corndart if your did an internet search for where the EV collected funds are going, it's wrong, I had an extensive phone call on Friday about this, cause I'm, trying to get chargers on the bases, but people are getting scared off by the tabs price...so you can internet smear me all you want, it's your right, I'm a veteran, and didn't have freedom of speech for 20 years, I also want block you for web smearing me, cause again, I still find the first amendment a a fascinating concept, when I have 3 friends who did time for criticizing President Obama about Bengali, so if my posting a thumbs down @Corndart caused you such deep discomfort, I'm sorry. I do get very very defensive when anyone does and easy internet search and believes the first thing google presents. I was on a round and round Q&A with the governors press secretary, I wish I recorded it....you'd be like, I thought your gramma was bad-
 
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I do want to add my .02 regarding the rumors that giga austin will start with the LR because thats what was seen being loaded up on the truck heading out for crash testing.

My question to you is, when have you ever seen a ROUSH or a SHELBY Mustang get crash tested?

It wont happen, crash testing a mustang in similar config with cheaper accessories is just as fine from the many videos I seen.
Honestly what difference is some expensive rims or red calipers, chrome pedals and carbon fiber spoiler will offer on a crash test?

My honest opinion is that Giga Austin will produce both variables of the MY.

I have been reading all this anti tesla hate coming from the government that will make other non owners hate our brand. I am also hoping the certifications are not delayed and we see vehicles being delivered around the beginning of Q2.
anti-government hate for Tesla? I’d need to see proof. The president not being thrilled about mentioning Tesla isn’t hate, it’s him keeping Musk at arms length for mounting off about bills the president supported. that/s not hate, it’s common sense. And, regardless, that has nothing to do with gigafactory, our deliveries etc. which is what this thread’s about.
 
anti-government hate for Tesla? I’d need to see proof. The president not being thrilled about mentioning Tesla isn’t hate, it’s him keeping Musk at arms length for mounting off about bills the president supported. that/s not hate, it’s common sense. And, regardless, that has nothing to do with gigafactory, our deliveries etc. which is what this thread’s about.
They REALLY do not like Tesla. The left hates that its non-union, hate that they snubbed Cali and moved to Texas, hate how they stayed open and defied Calis COVID lockdown and hate Elon for being successful and "not paying his fair share".
 
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