Politics - Quarantine Thread

[Terminator857]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/01/29/sundaytake-trump-polls/

From Jan 2022 poll:
56 percent of Republicans say they are more supporters of the party than of Trump, while 36 percent say they are more supporters of Trump than the party.

 

[sealbeach100d]

Not sure that Republican/Democrat context has anything to do with "elon-fsd-beta-tweets", which is the title of this thread?

 

[nvx1977]

Not sure that Republican/Democrat context has anything to do with "elon-fsd-beta-tweets", which is the title of this thread?

Yeah this is what happens when ppl wait too long for the next FSDb version. You'll get used to it.

 

[slipnslider]

I don't see the outlandish that you do.
For a billionaire that wants to go into space he seems pretty well grounded to me.
Sure , naming his kid xeiii or whatever is outlandish and weird but pushing for kindness, openness and moderation is not very outlandish to me.

The people that think Free speech is anti democratic on the other hand are IMO mentally ill

Free speech isn't anti democratic. But supporting the party that tried to overthrow democracy sure is.

 

[slipnslider]

I was the biggest tesla and elon fan I knew. I overlooked all the quality flaws with my model 3 and told other people there's no reason to ever buy any other car.

Elon started to lose me when he started pumping climate roasting crpytocurrency. How can you claim climate change is the biggest threat we face, then hype a new currency that makes climate change worse?

Then he started saying we should let the people who just attempted a coup to end democracy back on twitter and I started really getting pissed.

Then he tweeted that democrats are the party that has gone insane, not the party that has denied climate change for 40 years, became a con man's cult, and tried to overthrow democracy.

That's when I knew I was done with elon and tesla. Sold most my stock and I wont buy another tesla. I've gone from recommending them to everyone to warning everyone away.

My current service center visit (my 12th ish in 3 years) made me sure I've made the right choice. They're swamped with repairs due to their low quality and it takes days to get anything done. If you can't get to my car for several days, why are you telling me to bring it in now and be without a car for more days than I need to? They no longer provide loaners, dont even provide rental credits, and uber credits are all you get. Despite elon once pledging "every service center visit will get a P100D loaner" It was supposed to be done 4 days ago and I've heard nothing. There's no way to even check on the status of my car. The app wont let me message them. The phone line recording says "use the app". It's pathetic.

I never knew I'd go from a lover to a hater so fast.

I still have SOME stock, which I'll get rid of if it rebounds. But I'm not sure that will happen. TSLA's previous stock highs were achieved with the support of some very liberal investors who thought they were investing in a better tomorrow. Now that we know he's a supporter of the climate change denier party, he's lost a lot of those investors for good.

 

[AquaY]

Free speech isn't anti democratic. But supporting the party that tried to overthrow democracy sure is.

You mean all those BLM and ANTIFA rioters of course

 

[AquaY]

I was the biggest tesla elon fan I know. I overlooked all the quality flaws with my model 3.

Elon started to lose me when he started pumping climate roasting crpytocurrency. How can you claim climate change is the biggest threat we face, then hype a new currency that makes climate change worse?

Then he started saying we should let the people who just attempted a coup to end democracy back on twitter and I started really getting pissed.

Then he tweeted that democrats are the party that has gone insane, not the party that has denied climate change for 40 years, became a con man's cult, and tried to overthrow democracy.

That's when I knew I was done with elon and tesla. Sold most my stock and I wont buy another tesla. I've gone from recommending them to everyone to warning everyone away.

My current service center visit (my 12th ish in 3 years) made me sure I've made the right choice. They're swamped with repairs due to their low quality and it takes days to get anything done. If you can't get to my car for several days, why are you telling me to bring it in now and be without a car for more days than I need to? They no longer provide loaners, dont even provide rental credits, and uber credits are all you get. Despite elon once pledging "every service center visit will get a P100D loaner" It was supposed to be done 4 days ago and I've heard nothing. There's no way to even check on the status of my car. The app wont let me message them. The phone line recording says "use the app". It's pathetic.

I never knew I'd go from a lover to a hater so fast.

I still have SOME stock, which I'll get rid of if it rebounds. But I'm not sure that will happen. TSLA's previous stock highs were achieved with the support of some very liberal investors who thought they were investing in a better tomorrow. Now that we know he's a supporter of the climate change denier party, he's lost a lot of those investors for good.

cryptocurrency has to be the most wasteful thing in the planet.
I read about “mining” and was appalled with the enormous wasted use of energy More than some large countries use .
They want to ban ICE vehicles. They need to ban crypto mining to fight climate change first.

 

[slipnslider]

You mean all those BLM and ANTIFA rioters of course

You might need to provide a link to the time they tried to overthrow democracy. Unless you're being sarcastic. There are people who say that and mean it so it's hard to tell.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Can we talk sensibly about this happening once again? Everywhere I go online people are tearing each other's heads off on the subject of gun control. I turn on the news and in between the sadness and emotion, it's all blame and hate for the other side of the aisle. Where are the centrist conservatives? Where are the blue dog democrats? They used to come together without all of this insanity. There is a middle ground here. Trump even banned bump stocks after a massacre. There is a compromise, but both sides need to come away unhappy. I've always felt that in an agreement(in congress), if both sides aren't satisfied, it probably benefits the masses. If one side is happy, then 50% of the masses will be outraged. The two parties seem to prefer not solving an issue (unless it's 100% their way) because it's more valuable as a wedge against the other party.

I recall after the school shootings of a decade ago, there was serious talk about mental health and red flag laws. There was a real motivation from both sides to expand gun control laws. The Democrats put forward bills that failed. The Republicans put forward bills that failed. The difference in the bills were minute. Dems said Rep bills didn't go far enough, and Reps said Dem bills went too far. Why not vote for the lesser bill and get 95% of what you want instead of 0%?

The primary difference was how to utilize a red flag law. Dems wanted to have it where if someone gets flagged, they cannot buy a gun. Repubs said, that was unconstitutional and a judge would throw it out because they are denied due process. Repubs bill would have someone who is flagged, have to wait, that gun purchase goes to the FBI and there is a time period where they could allow, or deny that person a gun, and it goes into the court system. Dems said it doesn't go far enough and puts a burden and time limit on the FBI/court system(10 days or whatever the wait time was). Of course, we ended up with nothing. And now we see things happen in New York, where they have red flag laws, but are apparently not enforced properly.

Ugh.

I have kids in this age group so it hits home. I'm also a gun owner who grew up going hunting with his dad, and I still do, though primarily bow and arrow. I keep everything locked up and unloaded and my wife is ok with that, but when she asks about AR15 and other assault weapons... I can't explain how these items are legal. What is the purpose? Shoot for fun or shoot to kill? Both sides need to give in and compromise on something that is completely bipartisan. Don't do something foolish and call it the 'Biden gun control act' because a Rep will vote against it simply because of that. Enough of this garbage.

 

[RCM11]

Hmmm. “What is the purpose”, you asked. I hunt coyotes regularly with my AR15.

 

[RSpanner]

Any politician in Congress who sends "thoughts and prayers" while being unwilling to solve the problem is a hypocrite.
All about rights. Never about responsibilities.

 

[shinytop]

Read a report that we have more mass shootings so far this year than we have had days. People talk about how to keep these shooters from getting guns. Well, that is good and proper. But first lets put a lid on those preaching hate and racism. Let's foster an environment that fosters love of our fellow people, regardless of race, ethnicity, religion and every other excuse people use to look down on others. If you are not where you want to be then figure out why not and try again. Don't blame those different from you. They are not keeping you down. Division is why we have these shootings. The shooters are listening to hate mongers and acting on them. If you know of a politician or anybody else peaching and practicing hatred, vote them out and let everybody know why. Get up and walk out when others start that hatred talk and let them know why. Don't concede the point. Don't let them think you are with them because you keep quiet. If they are breaking laws or workplace rules, report them. Keeping quiet empowers them.

 

[jjrandorin]

Can we talk sensibly about this happening once again

I think its impossible to discuss this without ending up in partisan talking about politics or decisions of politicians. Even the Opening post has "Dems" and "Repubs" in it, which means it contains politics... so my answer to this is "likely not here, or not in the manner in which you lead off because we will likely need to move the entire thread to quarantine regardless of what sensitivity we have to the subject.

Edit: reading the first post, it is squarely politics so the thread has been moved to quarantine. I am leaving my post here as why though.

 

[mspohr]

Here is some interesting insight into conservative conspiracy gullibility:

Science has answers to why conservatives fall so easily for COVID-19 and Russian propaganda

At work, the subject of Ukraine came up. Someone I had worked with for years and seemed reasonably intelligent went on an absurd rant about how Ukraine was overrun with Nazis who were planning on using bioweapons against the U.S. He added that...

www.dailykos.com

Recently published research discovered that there is a subset of conservatives who are not only very susceptible to misinformation but also those most likely to spread it. The research, which utilized over 4,600 participants who underwent eight experimental studies, found that “low-conscientiousness conservatives,” or LCCs, were spreading the most misinformation. The researchers said they shared two distinct psychological traits:

• Low levels of conscientiousness
• Appetite for chaos

As with other research, this study confirmed that conservatives have a “much greater tendency towards misinformation.” Yet using statistical analysis, it was discovered that the common denominator for spreading misinformation came from those wanting a general “desire for chaos,” which was defined as a motivation to take down the social and political institutions to “assert dominance and superiority of one’s own group.”

Clare Birchall of Kings College London explains this by saying, “In short, there is always someone making money off of conspiracy theories. In the case of platforms such as 4Chan/8Chan/8Kun, they use their alleged championing of free speech to allow wild conspiracies to thrive on their platforms as it creates traffic that will see ads for the platform owner's book company.” (4Chan and 8Chan, now 8Kun, are message boards that are popular with extremists and conspiracy theorists.)

 

[wws]

Clare Birchall of Kings College London explains this by saying, “In short, there is always someone making money off of conspiracy theories. In the case of platforms such as 4Chan/8Chan/8Kun, they use their alleged championing of free speech to allow wild conspiracies to thrive on their platforms as it creates traffic that will see ads for the platform owner's book company.” (4Chan and 8Chan, now 8Kun, are message boards that are popular with extremists and conspiracy theorists.)

Not to mention... the dailykos.

 

[mspohr]

Not to mention... the dailykos.

I guess if you don't have anything substantial to contribute, you can just pound the table.
The article was posted with references to an actual published study which is much better than most of the basement dweller rants here.
This is a link to the study. However, the study points out that people are good at ignoring facts which don't agree with their opinions so you probably will just ignore it.

APA PsycNet

psycnet.apa.org

As with other research, this study confirmed that conservatives have a “much greater tendency towards misinformation.” Yet using statistical analysis, it was discovered that the common denominator for spreading misinformation came from those wanting a general “desire for chaos,” which was defined as a motivation to take down the social and political institutions to “assert dominance and superiority of one’s own group.”

 

[rjack1282]

Yeah, he should have posted the QAnon stuff you’all go apey for.

Nice of you to assume where I get my news; certainly not that. Only a small percent of the right even knows what QAnon means. The NYT is essentially gospel to the left which has basically become the left mirror of something like Breitbart considering their lack of intellectual diversity. I consider both trash.

It’s healthy to be exposed to multiple viewpoints.

 

[mspohr]

Nice of you to assume where I get my news; certainly not that. Only a small percent of the right even knows what QAnon means. The NYT is essentially gospel to the left which has basically become the left mirror of something like Breitbart considering their lack of intellectual diversity. I consider both trash.

It’s healthy to be exposed to multiple viewpoints.

Then you should welcome exposure to the NYT. I assume you are intellectually strong enough to avoid being corrupted by its liberalism

 

[JRP3]

The NYT is essentially gospel to the left

Not the actual left. NYT is basically corporate center with a nod to the left.

 

[bkp_duke]

Then you should welcome exposure to the NYT. I assume you are intellectually strong enough to avoid being corrupted by its liberalism

The corollary argument to that is that individuals should not be afraid of "free speech" if their arguments are intellectually strong enough to stand on their own. Only people who can't defend their viewpoint with strong logical arguments advocate for censorship (on the left or the right).


I've been thinking about this a lot recently, and I really believe that is the reason the founding fathers didn't put broad restrictions on free speech - because of EXACTLY what we are seeing right now: polarization. Limiting free speech, on either side of the political spectrum, invites criticism of censorship and fosters an environment of skepticism and conspiracy. I believe that the founding fathers thought of this long and hard, enough to understand that "irrational arguments" that can't stand the test of well-though counter-argument would appropriately fall by the wayside as they were tested out.

It's for the above reason I have NEVER respected anyone that would shout down someone else's opinion and not hear them out and engage in open dialog. Even if a person FIRMLY believes what they say is right, they must be willing to hear someone say something that they completely disagree with and test that opinion, instead of shouting them out (like going LA LA LA LA LA LA like a 3 year old does when they don't want to hear something). The person that can't withstand listening to other opinions demonstrates intellectual immaturity and an inability to defend their reasoning to others. It's also a barometer of how well (or poorly) they have thought out the particular position they are defending.