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Poll: AWD M3s software upgradable to performance edition some day?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by TurnFast, Jul 21, 2018.

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Will Tesla let AWD users unlock the full motor potential to performance version levels?

  1. Yes Tesla will offer a paid software upgrade to AWD users

    46 vote(s)
    25.3%
  2. No

    136 vote(s)
    74.7%
  1. TurnFast

    TurnFast Member

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    As far as I can tell, the consensus opinion is that the only difference between the base AWD dual motor model 3 and the performance edition is a software unlock, (plus some minor tweaks to the suspension).
    I haven’t been following Tesla as long as many of you (just reserved end of last year) but I understand Tesla has done something like this in the past?
    So what do people think? If AWD users pony up enough money to Tesla will they let you unlock the full motor potential to performance version levels?
     
  2. Funkmobile

    Funkmobile Member

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    Unfortunately we won't know until someone does a full tear down of both the AWD and base Performance to see if there any hardware differences.
     
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  3. Pied

    Pied Member

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    I just want the track mode
     
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  4. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

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    Well, that isn't true as at a minimum Elon said that the motors are binned, or sorted, so the best performing ones go to the P and they are tested twice as much. So literally they are putting the weaker motors in the standard AWD cars.

    The last thing they would want to do is turn the power all the way up and cause a rash of warranty claims because of failures.
     
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  5. KenF

    KenF Member

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    No. Even if Tesla production reaches a point where all new motors are capable of a 3.5s 0-60, there may be some out there on the road that are not.

    That said, we do not know for a fact that 4.5s is the best the lowest (worst) bin parts can do. For all we know, the worst parts are capable of 3.8s and Tesla may have artificially limited acceleration to sell more performance model configurations. I suppose it is possible, but unlikely, that, at some point, Tesla sells a minor upgrade, say, to 4.1s for $3000, if they determine that all of their motors are capable of better then 4.5s.
     
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  6. TANGO SUKKA

    TANGO SUKKA Member

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    different hardware
     
  7. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    #7 Knightshade, Jul 21, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2018
    Not from any available evidence. And covered pretty exhaustively as such at this point.

    If the hardware was actually different then lot sorting the drive units would make no sense.


    It's also possible all motors are capable of even better than 3.5 (or the ~3.3 Elon suggests better tires will get you on a P) but the batteries aren't and a software unlock could easily turn the AWD into a P. (though it'd have to cost more than $11,000 to protect sales of official Ps)

    We've really no idea how much difference (if any) the binning makes.... given modern manufacturing tolerances, probably not much.

    As evidence of that look at the EPA numbers.

    The RWD motor (which isn't binned, and has been going in RWD cars for a year now) lists the same kw output as the P rear.

    The AWD front motor (which supposedly is binned) lists the same kw output as the P front.

    So likely the only practical impact of the lot sorting is maybe a marginal reduction in warranty costs by putting the "best" motors of a batch of the same part capable of the same output in the Ps where they expect them to be using more of that same output more often.



    I don't believe there's any evidence the suspension is different at all without the $5000 upgrade pack on the P.

    (and even then it's unclear what exactly they changed- we know it's 0.39 inches lower, but that could just be a geometry change for the 20" wheels since the 20s as a standalone package come with different upper arms too)
     
  8. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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    Technologically, it's possible I am sure.

    Logistically and politically, not something you want to mess with.

    You want the P, buy the P.
     
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  9. phtp

    phtp Member

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    If it becomes an option, I'm thinking it might void the warranty or some stipulation around it. Since the performance is supposed to have the highest rated ones with double the burn-in period.
     
  10. WarpedOne

    WarpedOne Supreme Premier

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    Double the BurnIn period serves to fishing out units that are not up to the "P standard" even though measurements suggest they could be.

    Non-P units are not so scrutinized meaning some would fail after the upgrade to P. Would tesla have to warrant that our would people gladly pay for replacement and not cry to the media about the failure rate?

    No and no, so no also for SW update to P.

    Want one? Order one.
     
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  11. Krash

    Krash Data Technician

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    Double the burn in period serves to fishing out people with extra money to spend now on higher performance and extra features, just like it should be. It could be that the motors are set at close to their limits, or it could be that Tesla is sandbagging so as not to cannabalize the SP100D.
     
    • Like x 1
  12. boriszima

    boriszima Member

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    We will find out. Would be cool to have some upgrade to some kind of mode similar to ludicrous.
     
  13. GenSao

    GenSao Member

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    Unfortunately, No. It is very unlikely since there are different motors between the cars.

    The rear motor units for the AWD LR (188 kW) and AWD LR Performance (211 kW) is different. Note, the HP listed for AWD LR Performance (283 hp) is higher than the RWD LR (258 hp) due to better binned motors.

    Per Fueleconomy.gov:
    Capture.JPG

    And on Wikipedia:
    Capture2.JPG
     
    • Informative x 1
  14. JeffK

    JeffK Well-Known Member

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    There's a discrepancy between the EPA RWD 211 kW and the wikipedia page.
     
  15. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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    It’s not a good thing to find out “later” if you made a misguided purchasing decision based on a low probability event.
     
  16. GenSao

    GenSao Member

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    Yes, looks like there is a difference between 2017 and 2018 Model Years (MY). Some noted changes...

    MY 2017 = 192 kW Electric Motor, 17 ft^3 luggage volume, 126 MPGe
    MY 2018 = 211 kW Electric Motor, 15 ft^3 luggage volume, 130 MPGe
     
  17. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    No, there aren't.

    If they were physically different there'd be nothing to bin sort.

    The output difference (which for 2018s only exists in the rear motor between P and AWD.... the RWD is identical to the P) is entirely software as far as anything Tesla has ever said about how they do the motors.


    And the warranty concern is also a non-issue. If you think you'll get a 3% higher failure rate on AWD->P conversions you just price that cost into the conversion.

    Heck, they software upgraded the model S by a full 1 second improvement at -0- cost them the market competition demanded it.
     
    • Like x 1
  18. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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    You can take a car that is fully ‘P’, load firmware on it that throttles output by 90 percent and call it the “Prius Edition”.

    When you test it, all the EPA numbers will change despite the car having identical motors.
     
  19. Uncle Paul

    Uncle Paul Active Member

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    Harley Davidson, for CVO and Mercedes for AMG do these same type of engine block set asides of their best examples for use in their higher priced limited edition vehicles.

    As parts go down the line, some just excel. They are set aside and sent to the elite vehicle assembly.

    AMG motors are assembled by one man/one engine process. Each motor is signed off by the expert technician putting it all together. Great pride is taken with ownership of such a motor.

    These vehicles are destined to endure greater performance demands and are more costly to produce.

    Tesla EVs are a different breed however, and electric motors can be simply supplied with additional current to produce the specified torque. This extra current, however produces additional heat which is undesirable in a performance mode.

    I believe Teslas Performance program is well thought out and can produce higher performance vehicles for it's elite line. There are always customers who want to step up the performance of their cars above the mundane (if any Tesla can be called mundane). This performance option from Tesla has been call for by its customers. Many have already begun to modify their standard cars for track use.

    Results will be faster cars for the enthusiasts, greater demand for cars with a halo effect, extra coverage by the press and enthusiast magazines and websites, additional profits for the company, and a smile on the face of those willing to pay the price.

    More Kudos to Tesla.
     
  20. MP3Mike

    MP3Mike Well-Known Member

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    You keep saying that, but we don't know it for a fact. The rear motor could be different between the AWD and Performance, but shared between the RWD and Performance. So there is still something to sort.
     

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