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Poll: Fastest stock setup 0-60 -- Aeros or 20" Sport?

Discussion in 'Model 3: Driving Dynamics' started by Mayhem, Jul 29, 2018.

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Fastest stock setup: Aeros or 20" Sport

  1. Aeros

    37 vote(s)
    41.6%
  2. 20" Sport

    52 vote(s)
    58.4%
  1. Mayhem

    Mayhem Professional F5 Presser

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    I'm voting 20" Sport. Could be completely wrong, but here is my reasoning:

    Radius of tire/wheel between the 235/45R18 and the 235/35R20 is 0.1in. Nearly the same.

    The grip of the 4S summer tire is significantly better than the all-season on the 18. This could be equalized with upgraded summer tires for the aeros.

    The weight of the aeros is 21.6 lbs. The weight of the 20" is not known, but the 19" are 25 lbs according to Tsportline. Volume of cylinder calculation shows 20" is 1.11x that of the 19". (Math nerds: please tear me apart here! ) With the same design, that's about at least a 28 lb rim, but I'm guessing its somewhat higher, like 32 lbs. So added weight is only like 42 lbs or ~1/4th of an adult passenger.

    Aeros are more aerodynamic, but don't think the effect is much for 3.5 seconds

    Basically I expect all the base P folks to vote for Aeros, and the performance upgrades crowd to vote 20"'s :p
     
  2. eigenv1

    eigenv1 Member

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    It is unsprung weight. The BMW folks were all hot under the collar over this issue on their cars.
    Can 40 lbs reduction in unsprung weight make a difference?
     
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  3. khraiv

    khraiv Member

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    What I believe we're starting to see from early 0-60 data with aero is that it has far more power than the wheels can grip. Some tests uphill even preform same or better due to added grip provided by gravity. I don't expect the 20's to fully utilize the power either, only wider/sticky will do that, but I do believe it'll improve over aero. I'd even go so far as to say added weight might even be helping due to the imbalanced power to grip ratio. Not scientific by any means, just guess work from early data.
     
  4. WarpedOne

    WarpedOne Supreme Premier

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    It is not about unsprung weight, it is about rotational mass. 10% more weight at 10% bigger radius has 30% more rotational energy that has to come from the motor.

    All seasons having traction of a fresh poop there will probably be gobs of power available to morw than overcome higher wheel momentum
     
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  5. bhzmark

    bhzmark Supporting Member

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    #5 bhzmark, Jul 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
    the poll is about the wheels; the discussion is mostly about the tires.

    For the wheel, the lighter one is likely to be better (assuming using the same tires).

    For the tire, the grippier one is likely to be better (assuming the same wheel).

    The lighest wheels are likely the 18" Aeros (can anyone confirm?) which you can use with the PS 4S

    upload_2018-7-29_15-26-17.png


    upload_2018-7-29_15-24-38.png

    For everything but aesthetics, the 18" aeros are probably better.
     
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  6. Beasley

    Beasley Member

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    I have seen a few times that going up hill would have better grip? Seems the opposite would be true?
     
  7. Knightshade

    Knightshade Active Member

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    Not only that- the PS 4S for the 18s will be the sticker 300 UTQG version, not the "eco" 500 version on the 20s.

    Plus you can get em in 265/40 (same diameter as the stock 235/45) and have wider tread to put the power down. (265 is technically out of spec for 8.5" wheels but tons of folks run em on 8.5s and have for years on lots of cars without issue)
     
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  8. Mayhem

    Mayhem Professional F5 Presser

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    Actually the poll is regarding the stock setup as comes from Tesla, which is the wheel/tire combo.
     
  9. bhzmark

    bhzmark Supporting Member

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    fair enough. I guess I focused on the "Aero's or 20" sport" part and figured tires are easy to change and the real choice is the wheel.
     
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  10. eigenv1

    eigenv1 Member

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    Does anyone know why the Tesla 19" wheel and tire combo is not offered on the P3D? 19" Tesla wheels are ~25 lbs, come with stock Continental ProContact RX tires that are lighter (weigh 23 lbs) than the 18" stock Michelin MXM4 tires (weigh 25 lbs) and there is a good chance they fit over the performance package brakes (they certainly fit over the MPP brake upgrade).
     
  11. Shizzrock

    Shizzrock Member

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    Don't forget the two piece rotors. The weight savings from those might offset the extra weight from the 20" wheels.
     
  12. Shizzrock

    Shizzrock Member

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    It's the same radius I thought. And the extra weight would be closer to the center as opposed to on the tire.
     
  13. Sg911

    Sg911 Member

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    Cos they are trying to max profit and force peeps to buy the PUP $5000...
     
  14. Mayhem

    Mayhem Professional F5 Presser

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    Addendum:

    • Aeros are 21.6 lbs. The MXM4 are 24.9 lbs for total of 46.5 lbs (without aero covers)
    • 20" Sport are a minimum of ~27.7 lbs but may be as high as ~32lbs. Pilot sport 4S is 22.6 lbs for a total of 50.3-54.5 lbs

    *If anyone knows the true weight of the 20" Sport wheel, I'd really like to know!

    That means 3.8lbs to ~8lbs per wheel/tire, or 15.2 lbs to ~ 32lbs extra rotational mass total. Makes me feel even more strongly about the 20" beating the stock 18" aero setup, but realistically we are talking very little difference with all else being equal. Maybe like hundredths, not tenths of seconds. Things like SOC, cargo weight, etc will have more influence IMHO.
     
  15. eigenv1

    eigenv1 Member

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    Skip a couple of meals before heading to the drag strip :D
     
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  16. WarpedOne

    WarpedOne Supreme Premier

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    The wheel radius is almost the same, the rim radius is ~10% bigger.
     
  17. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    #17 Xenoilphobe, Jul 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2018
    I'm in the 18" stock wheel camp with Michelin Pilot Super Sport 4s's added for $210 each.... I will smoke all of you....off the line and in the twisties and for longer range...

    Enjoy the pretty bling bling 20"s ... I want performance, not high heels for looks.. And there are even better lighter weight wheel options that only weigh 17 lbs dropping 5 lbs of rotational mass per corner...off the lightest stock Tesla Wheels. Which is way more than dropping a 1/4 of a passenger out of the car. The ratio is about 1 pound of rotational mass to 10 pounds of static mass (depending on lots of factors). Also every pound of rotational mass reduction provides a reciprocal increase in wheel horse power.

    Do we really need another poll about wheel size (I worry about some of you folks and this size thing and don't know if its a height issue or something else:rolleyes:), we need to change the conversation from size to weight, thats what matters...also if Tesla was smart they would charge more for lighter wheels and less for the fat boy 19 and 20's.

    I would pay big bucks for a 17 pound Arachnid Wheel for the Model 3 and frankly these should be stock on the P3D just to set it apart from the herd....

    18 vs 19 inch wheels? Help please

    Posted 0-60 times using which wheels?

    Aftermarket Wheels - What are you getting?

    Downgrading to 19″ Wheels
     
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  18. D3xDt3Reaction

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    Point taken, but 10:1 ratio seems awfully high. Based on moment of inertia calculations at The Effects of Rotational Inertia on Automotive Acceleration it seems more like 2:1 in this case?
     
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  19. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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  20. Mayhem

    Mayhem Professional F5 Presser

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    That wasn't the question, though was it? :) We're talking off the lot setups from Tesla. Sure you could 'smoke' someone if you changed tires, wheels, pulled out all the seats, etc, etc, etc.... But we're not talking about how to make the Model 3 P a drag machine. The question in the poll refers to how Tesla has chosen to adorn the non-Performance upgrades version vs the Upgrade package, and how that might effect the dash to 60 mph....
     
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