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POLL: Future of Ontario EHVIP Rebate?

Discussion in 'Canada' started by jkirkwood001, Jul 3, 2018.

?

What do you think will happen with Ontario's EHVIP program?

  1. Nothing - stays as is

  2. Will be cancelled retroactive to June 29 swearing in (June 30 orders onwards not accepted)

  3. Will be cancelled before July 30th

  4. Will be cancelled between August 1st and September 30th

  5. Will be adjusted - Provincial Gov will replace with lower rebate

  6. Program will be cancelled, but Federal Gov will step in with comparable rebate

  7. Doug Ford will accept Global Warming, introduce Greener policies, and offer higher EV rebates!

  8. I don't care - I don't live in Ontario! (or I'm rich ;)

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. jkirkwood001

    jkirkwood001 Member

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    So much speculation! You can assume that Doug Ford's government will execute a change to the EHVIP with the same process and "grandfathering" provision as with past MTO updates, but nothing is for sure.

    Just for fun, what do you think the future holds?
     
  2. darkenergy

    darkenergy Member

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    The real question is what will happen in Ontario after the provincial government eliminates the market driven cap and trade system that funded the environmental improvement efforts, like the EV rebate.

    The Federal government will impose a carbon tax rather than a market driven system:
    • A levy on fossil fuels that will increase annually.
    • Measures to price pollution by industry. This sets limits on pollution, and will ensure that the more an industrial facility pollutes above its limit, the more it will pay. The more a facility reduces its emissions below the limit, the more it can earn by selling credits to less efficient competitors.
    That money will go to the Federal government rather than to the people of Ontario. The provincial government will lose control of the funds. The beneficial programs that were defunded by the Ford administration will be lost.

    When the Ford administration sues, they'll waste millions of dollars fighting legitimate legislation with the only result being that the people of Ontario get the short end of the stick.

    What a waste of time and money.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
  3. Buggle

    Buggle Member

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    Agree 100%. I heard there's absolutely no issue with the feds authority in this area, and the whole thing is just political theatre for Ford & Brad Wall.
     
    • Like x 1
  4. sakimano

    sakimano Active Member

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    I think you'll be fine if you already bought. Once the announcement comes you're cooked.

    I also think they will keep thr program just a more realistic subsidy. Not $14,000 which is 35% of the price of most of the electric cars for sale. $5000 or $7500 makes more sense. I've always thought $14k was nuts when the province has been running monster defects. Nowhere else on the continent do they get anywhere near $14 000 for buying an electric car.
     
    • Like x 2
  5. jkirkwood001

    jkirkwood001 Member

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    Yeah, but will they add the AWD version to the list? Not only is the rebate at risk, but inclusion of the latest model too!

    Besides that, I think your proposal is very reasonable. ☺
     
  6. darkenergy

    darkenergy Member

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    I've never been a fan of deficit financing but I don't have a problem with the cap & trade system providing that level of funding. In California you can get USD 7500 in federal tax rebates and USD 2500 in state payout. Which is pretty close to 14k CAD. Ontario is well behind on the whole EV rollout, and every ICE we take off the roads means better, healthier air for everyone. Minimally that will turn into fewer health problems, and cost savings for all the consumers who get the operational and maintenance benefits of EVs.

    So while the rebates will need to come down as EVs become more mainstream, every dollar contributed by a polluting business will pay dividends for early adopters as well as the general public. Even if you are stupid enough to ignore global warming.
     
    • Like x 3
  7. Osteolog

    Osteolog Member

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    Plenty of states end up around 10k US between state and federal rebates, which is a bit over 13k CDN. Since it is (or was) funded by cap and trade, I’m fine with polluting companies paying for generous rebates. In a proper system, the rebate would gradually decrease as EVs reach price parity and make up a larger percentage of car sales, but 14k is fine for now. Aside from the obvious benefit of emissions, EVs cost far less to drive which is nice for the end user. I’m somewhere around 1/6th to 1/7th the cost of gas in my previous car. Or, for another perspective, it’s about the same as paying 20-ish cents per litre for gas. On top of being cheaper for the owner, instead of the price of fuel going to giant oil companies, other countries, and other provinces, now the money we pay to charge goes to local utilities instead. Oh, and they’re nicer to drive. And more convenient for most driving. And don’t crap up our planet as much. I’d say that generous incentives are well worth it to speed up consumer adoption.
     
    • Like x 2
  8. TOFLYIN

    TOFLYIN Member

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    So this is the second EV rebate that I have applied for (notice I said applied for, submitted Jun 20th). The first was in 2012 and it was about $8200 for a 2012 Volt. I am quite happy to take back $14K of the money I have given the Ont government, but I too think it is a bit high. As much as I am not a Doug Ford fan, I think that he can easily find more than 4% in waste in government spending. Take this rebate program for instance. A whole department dedicated to processing claims. Would it not have been much simpler just to make EV's tax exempt? Savings calculated right at the dealership. They just don't collect the provincial (and hopefully the Federal) sales tax. Simple. No new department. The public understands "no tax". Hell most Canadians start to salivate just hearing the phrase! In my opinion it would increase EV sales. Most people don't even know about the current rebate, and the dealerships don't promote it much. They want to sell ICE cars.

    My 2 cents ( 2.26 cents after tax)

    Anyone with connection to Doug Ford, please feel free to pass this suggestion on.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Funny x 1
  9. sakimano

    sakimano Active Member

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    this is the tesla forum...we're aware of what the cars are like. Not everyone just took delivery 3 weeks ago :)

    As for giving $14,000 out to people buying electric cars, I haven't seen another state that equals that. Would love to see it. Still don't think I'd say it makes a ton of sense even if it's being done somewhere else.

    I'd also love to see the books on 'cap and trade'. I can guarantee you there was a level of inefficiency there that saw much of the carbon taxes gathered wasted in government beaurocracy, rather than dollar for dollar flowing through to environmental saviours. There's a system there that works somewhere, but putting the government in the middle of it likely isn't the best solution. We'll see what the provincial conservatives come up with. I'm sure it won't be nothing as many are fearing.
     
    • Like x 1
  10. sakimano

    sakimano Active Member

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    might be the wrong forum for that :)

    good idea though. On a $75,000 car that would be a $6,000 provincial break. If the feds want to get involved that's a $3750 break to add to it.

    On a $42,000 VW e-golf it's a $5,460 break. And it's instant. And nobody needs to be hired, paid, have managers, have office space, have provincial pensions etc. to process it.
     
  11. richyrich

    richyrich Member

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    Trouble is the incentives need to be enough for people to consider a big, slightly scary change. The common fears about EV battery anxiety, repair costs, lack of charging infrastructure etc that still get peddled around (regardless of substance) make a lot of people very cautious still. Most people I show my car to are flabbergasted that the range exists, that there’s no hassle and that I don’t care about superchargers except on occasional road trips. Most people just assume these are niche vehicles with compromises. A big incentive makes them look twice, like I did.

    Also think of the car buyer tendency towards getting “a deal”. There are no discounts on a Tesla so someone considering their next vehicle compares that to Ford offering them a big shiny F-150 with employee pricing, CostCo discounts and a bunch of other stuff and sees a better deal. Little do they know they’re being suckered into a lifetime of servicing but that’s another story...
     
  12. Osteolog

    Osteolog Member

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    You should look harder: Vehicle Incentives
    Colorado looks to have a 5k + 7.5k tax incentive, which works out to 16.4k CDN. Plenty of others offer extra incentives on top of the base 7.5k federal incentive.

    Further, while I'm sure there are some inefficiencies in cap and trade, that's true of damn near everything and doesn't warrant just scrapping the entire thing without a valid alternative in place. That these incompetents thought it a good idea to drive off a cliff and hope they could build a bridge at the same time speaks volumes. I hope I'm wrong, but they've started off without bothering to provide a fully costed platform, promising an unfulfillable 10 cent reduction in gas prices, and cheap beer. They may as well have offered discounts on buggy whips and other useless nonsense. At least EV incentives and other green initiatives are supporting the future instead of trying to cling to the past, in addition to being better for the environment.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
  13. sakimano

    sakimano Active Member

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    There's another forum for political arguments. Also remember how democracy works...you just called the Conservatives incompetents when probably half of the forum voted for them. And how are they incompetents when they've been at it for 7 days?

    I get it, you're smarting from a brutal loss because your team isn't an official party anymore but get over it and quit assuming the other team is the devil.
     
  14. 5_+JqckQttqck

    5_+JqckQttqck Member

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    Still... electing a bobble head who speaks sounds bites and has no charisma tells you the sorry state our Democracy is in. He has 1 year municipal political/governing experience... how do people elect/hire him to run the largest province in Canada? You wouldn't hand over your new car to your child who's only been driving for one year... yet the future of this province and it's policy?

    Confused af still. System is broken.
     
    • Like x 1
  15. Osteolog

    Osteolog Member

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    A good percentage of the voters in the US voted for Trump as well. Just because a number of people vote for something doesn’t mean it’s a great idea. It’s also worth keeping in mind that half the population falls below average in terms of intelligence so waving shiny baubles like cheap beer as a rank populist can apparently score you plenty of points. Also, without vote splitting and first past the post, we wouldn’t have this issue in the first place. Further, seven days is quite clearly more than enough time to demonstrate incompetence. Competent people suggest improvements or better plans and programs, they don’t just destroy things with a ‘don’t worry friends, I have great things planned, let’s make Ontario great again’ sort of idiocy.

    As for you ‘getting it’, that’s exceedingly unlikely since the team you seem to think is mine absolutely isn’t.
     

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