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Poll: Is FSD Worth the Cost?

Which is the best value for the Model 3?


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    639
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November or December of this year [2017], we should be able to go from a parking lot in California to a parking lot in New York, no controls touched at any point during the entire journey,” What will the future look like? Elon Musk speaks at TED2017

"I think we will be feature complete — full self-driving — this year. Meaning the car will be able to find you in a parking lot, pick you up and take you all the way to your destination without an intervention, this year. I would say I am certain of that. That is not a question mark." Posts - ARK Investment Management

Elon Musk on Twitter

Elon Musk on Twitter

Elon Musk on Twitter

He "thinks" they will be feature complete?

Ok then.... I "think" I will be a billionaire in 1 year.
 
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Reactions: pilotSteve
Errr... you mean level 2.

If by a couple years ago you mean less than a year ago- sure. It had the twice as safe thing up until the EAP/FSD->AP/FSD transition around March 2019.

Instead they now say they expect to get "reliability far in excess of human drivers"

which doesn't really seem TOO different from at least twice as safe

Yeah, realistically level 2 and optimistically level 3.

On the safety side, I took the change to mean that there could be situations where the system works but may be as safe or less safe than a normal driver. It may still be significantly safer on average, but not at least twice as safe as a human in all the situations where it operates.
 
Yeah, realistically level 2 and optimistically level 3.

On the safety side, I took the change to mean that there could be situations where the system works but may be as safe or less safe than a normal driver. It may still be significantly safer on average, but not at least twice as safe as a human in all the situations where it operates.


well, the longer quote is "The future use of these features without supervision is dependent on achieving reliability far in excess of human drivers"

I personally don't read that as allowing for anything other than it always being more reliable than humans (by a lot) when used without supervision, but YMMV.

Especially since they mention regulatory approval in the same paragraph- and it seems unlikely the feds would approve any system that was ever less safe than not using it.
 
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I am adding FSD and here is why....I assume I will have this car for 5 or 6 years (amount of time to pay off the loan).

It breaks down to less than $100 a month on my payment. If I want to add it later I doubt I will have a spare $7k sitting around.

Also, from what I have seen if you have FSD and there is an update to hardware or software Tesla will update it. Older 2.5 hardware cars are getting upgraded for free if they paid for FSD.

Lets say they do figure out FSD in 2022 and then they decide to charge $10k for FSD.....I just saved myself $3k if that happens.

But like anything Beta that you signup for....could be great, could fail......guess that's the gamble I am taking.
 
I am adding FSD and here is why....I assume I will have this car for 5 or 6 years (amount of time to pay off the loan).

It breaks down to less than $100 a month on my payment. If I want to add it later I doubt I will have a spare $7k sitting around.

Also, from what I have seen if you have FSD and there is an update to hardware or software Tesla will update it. Older 2.5 hardware cars are getting upgraded for free if they paid for FSD.

Lets say they do figure out FSD in 2022 and then they decide to charge $10k for FSD.....I just saved myself $3k if that happens.

But like anything Beta that you signup for....could be great, could fail......guess that's the gamble I am taking.

Here is my gamble.

Got LR AWD Model 3 in Dec 2018. Bought AP/FSD in March 2019 for $5K. I drive a 160 miles daily and use AP a lot. Not so much Summon/Auto Park/NavOAP, less than 10 times over a year ownership.

I did not get FSD for a Model X in Sep 2019, but I had put the same amount of money costing FSD, $6K in TSLA stock in June 2019 when it was about $200 per share. Hoping that time I win the gamble, because if I lose - that meant TSLA lost, and presumably FSD did not materialize. Winning, so far.

That Model X was totaled last week, insurance appraised pre-accident value way low even if $7K FSD was factored in. Good thing I did not buy FSD with it. My loss was covered by auto insurance and separate gap insurance, totalling maxed out $100K. If I had FSD - it would have not been covered at all. Meanwhile, TSLA is kicking butt.

I think that when FSD happens, for sure it will cost more than $7K. But Tesla can only raise FSD so much - if not, people like us in this forum will think twice if its worth it or not.

Until then, when FSD is functional and (assuming) TSLA is way up, my original $6K should be able to cover the cost.

My 2 cents, YMMV.
 
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I’m probably one of few who ordered a SR (March delivery), and who drives in LA traffic everyday where AP would probably do really well and be extremely useful.

However, I’m old school (even though I’m a techie and an IT Manager) and I like to drive my cars. I’ve raced cars for years in HPDE, SCCA, NHRA, etc, and I like being in control of my cars. I’ve also rarely used cruise control on any car take I’ve owned, but again that’s me and I’m good with it.

If I really want AP or FSD later, I don’t mind paying a little more for it then than buying it now upfront. Plus my car will already have HW3 in it, so having that option to upgrade later is convenient, but not a necessity for me.
 
Here is my gamble.

Got LR AWD Model 3 in Dec 2018. Bought AP/FSD in March 2019 for $5K. I drive a 160 miles daily and use AP a lot. Not so much Summon/Auto Park/NavOAP, less than 10 times over a year ownership.

I did not get FSD for a Model X in Sep 2019, but I had put the same amount of money costing FSD, $6K in TSLA stock in June 2019 when it was about $200 per share. Hoping that time I win the gamble, because if I lose - that meant TSLA lost, and presumably FSD did not materialize. Winning, so far.

That Model X was totaled last week, insurance appraised pre-accident value way low even if $7K FSD was factored in. Good thing I did not buy FSD with it. My loss was covered by auto insurance and separate gap insurance, totalling maxed out $100K. If I had FSD - it would have not been covered at all. Meanwhile, TSLA is kicking butt.

I think that when FSD happens, for sure it will cost more than $7K. But Tesla can only raise FSD so much - if not, people like us in this forum will think twice if its worth it or not.

Until then, when FSD is functional and (assuming) TSLA is way up, my original $6K should be able to cover the cost.

My 2 cents, YMMV.

This is similar to what I did. Rather than buying FSD, I bought TSLA last year at $190. I think I made the right call.
 
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Still sounds like it’s a 50-50 proposition on purchasing FSD.
As for ElectricIAC "Huh? If you have EAP FSD should only be $3-4,000 to u/g and still totally not worth it.”
that’s only for post purchase. I bought my MS used and it was $8,000 for EAP&FSD. I only added EAP as I wasn’t sure I wanted FSD at the time ($5,000 value). I’m still not sure I’d use it.

Some of the problems with EAP alone is very dangerous - like cursing along with EAP engaged going 75mph and have it slam on the brakes for no reason at all. It seems like it often does it when going through an overpass or sometimes when a side embankment/baracade appears and it mistakes it for an impediment in the road (I suspect). This may be due to the slow HW2.5 processor (I also suspect) but have no idea. I’ve been told there is a similar problem with the maps it uses which causes it to slam on the brakes when passing an exit or ramp. I’m told it thinks you’re going down the ramp when you’re not due to a poor map accuracy.
 
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Reactions: TX_M3P+
I have a question for model S owners. I have a 2019 S which I presume a 2.5 HW computer. I have an option to buy the upgrade currently.

I use standard AP, mostly just cruise control. I suffer with phantom braking quite a bit.

What I would like to know is those running HW3, has Phantom braking been eliminated?
 
I have a question for model S owners. I have a 2019 S which I presume a 2.5 HW computer. I have an option to buy the upgrade currently.

I use standard AP, mostly just cruise control. I suffer with phantom braking quite a bit.

What I would like to know is those running HW3, has Phantom braking been eliminated?

You should post this in the Model S forum, but I would be really surprised if HW3 fixed phantom braking in the S since my HW3 in my M3 loves nothing more than to phantom brake when you least expect it.
 
I have a question for model S owners. I have a 2019 S which I presume a 2.5 HW computer. I have an option to buy the upgrade currently.

I use standard AP, mostly just cruise control. I suffer with phantom braking quite a bit.

What I would like to know is those running HW3, has Phantom braking been eliminated?
It is a sensor limited not processor limited phenomenon.
 
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I have a question for model S owners. I have a 2019 S which I presume a 2.5 HW computer. I have an option to buy the upgrade currently.

I use standard AP, mostly just cruise control. I suffer with phantom braking quite a bit.

What I would like to know is those running HW3, has Phantom braking been eliminated?
I have occasionally experienced phantom braking as well. What I strongly suggest in any situation where the car doesn't operate as expected, press the button on the right side of the steering wheel, say "bug report just had a phantom braking experience" (or whatever). I have done the for multiple situations on my route to work and back and it behaved better within days. On one overpass curve it wouldn'nt slow down enough and was crossing the line (fixed in days), slowly started not allowing lane change and a bug report had it fixed in minutes. My AC wasn't working well and it was adjusted within hours. I don't understand how they do it and maybe it's coincidence, but I don't see how. I would always give it a try, you not only improve your experience but you improve it for all of us.
 
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I have occasionally experienced phantom braking as well. What I strongly suggest in any situation where the car doesn't operate as expected, press the button on the right side of the steering wheel, say "bug report just had a phantom braking experience" (or whatever). I have done the for multiple situations on my route to work and back and it behaved better within days.

100% your imagination.


Bug reports don't go anywhere.

It's basically telling the car "bookmark the logs right this second" and it just sits there on the car.


If you open a service ticket Tesla can then remotely look at the log to see if it can resolve the service ticket- but otherwise nobody ever sees it- it absolutely does not get automatically sent to, or reviewed by, Tesla....

And your cars driving behavior never changes without an actual firmware update you have to approve and install. The car doesn't "learn" on its own.



I ha
On one overpass curve it wouldn'nt slow down enough and was crossing the line (fixed in days), slowly started not allowing lane change and a bug report had it fixed in minutes. My AC wasn't working well and it was adjusted within hours. I don't understand how they do it and maybe it's coincidence

100% coincidence.

Folks with root access to the computers have confirmed this to be the case- bug reports are just kept locally.
 
100% your imagination.


Bug reports don't go anywhere.

It's basically telling the car "bookmark the logs right this second" and it just sits there on the car.


If you open a service ticket Tesla can then remotely look at the log to see if it can resolve the service ticket- but otherwise nobody ever sees it- it absolutely does not get automatically sent to, or reviewed by, Tesla....

And your cars driving behavior never changes without an actual firmware update you have to approve and install. The car doesn't "learn" on its own.





100% coincidence.

Folks with root access to the computers have confirmed this to be the case- bug reports are just kept locally.

But Tesla also suggests to do "Bug Report" to provide feedback.

Per the Model Y Owner's Manual: "You can also use voice commands to provide feedback to Tesla. Say "Note", "Report", "Bug note", or "Bug report"....Tesla periodically reviews these notes and uses them to continue improving Model Y.

So, these reports are not automatically sent to Tesla but are supposedly periodically reviewed. Screenshot_20200507-121149_Drive.jpg
 
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Reactions: TomB985
But Tesla also suggests to do "Bug Report" to provide feedback.

Per the Model Y Owner's Manual: "You can also use voice commands to provide feedback to Tesla. Say "Note", "Report", "Bug note", or "Bug report"....Tesla periodically reviews these notes and uses them to continue improving Model Y.

So, these reports are not automatically sent to Tesla but are supposedly periodically reviewed.View attachment 539592



They "review" the report if you open a ticket with the service center for a specific problem.

Otherwise nobody ever sees it.
 
But Tesla also suggests to do "Bug Report" to provide feedback.

Per the Model Y Owner's Manual: "You can also use voice commands to provide feedback to Tesla. Say "Note", "Report", "Bug note", or "Bug report"....Tesla periodically reviews these notes and uses them to continue improving Model Y.

So, these reports are not automatically sent to Tesla but are supposedly periodically reviewed.View attachment 539592
One time I said record video and it dictated report bug and filed a report when all I wanted was to record a video on dash cam of a car doing funny thing on the road.
 
Quick
No, it's not currently worth the money.

Detail
I appreciate the currently available and limited functions. It does things you can't get elsewhere. That said it kind of drives, well like a child, or a new driver. It's not very confident in it's actions. It's not very well logical decisions often. It just doesn't do what you would want it to.

I get it's baby steps. I get it's constantly getting better. But honestly I turn it off more than I would want to. There are pros / cons, different views on this from people, and we could go dizzy with all the details.
 
It is a sensor limited not processor limited phenomenon.

When I got my Model 3 in November 2018 with EAP, the car on autopilot followed other cars perfectly with no phantom breaking, and never aborted a lane change. I recall it changed in a couple of months when they tried to recognize stationary objects on the road. And then constant embarrassing lane change aborts followed.

So, for majority of my car ownership, the car was worse than when I bought it, in a fairly significant way given I practically stopped using autopilot in day to day driving.
I feel like Tesla owes me and last thing I want to do is to encourage Tesla with my money for FSD to screw up basic functions for the sake of impressive toys.
Maybe they should introduce TACC for attentive drivers who are ok to be killed by stationary objects on the road.
 
I wish Summon wasn’t so crippled.

I mean it really is completely useless. I’ve used to to move my car back and forward while washing it, and even that has been not entirely free of issues. You have to be so close to the car for it to work at all, and of course by being close the car drives with an abundance of caution. Stand in the wrong place and it won’t move at all, as you’re seen as an obstruction.

I also found out that the “Come to me” feature only works if you leave “Summon Standby” enabled which, I’m told, eats about the same battery as Sentry does. Obviously “come to me” still needs the car to be in Bluetooth range, so it’s unclear why you’d need to use it unless you were legally blind.

I find the UNECE restrictions on this side of thing rather strange. The car will drive itself at 70mph+ with no hands on the steering wheel, but you can’t get it to move at all if you’re more than ~2 metres away from it.

I’d do the second phone hack if it didn’t mean leaving a phone key in the car, which for obvious reasons is a very silly idea.

I don’t regret getting FSD, the NoA stuff worked nicely when I tried it, but it’s a hell of a lot of money for just that. I daren’t use Autopark with massive alloys and low tread tyres, Summon essentially does not work over here except in the most technical definition of the word, which leaves little else.