Poll: Is FSD Worth the Cost?

[Garlan Garner]

Except FSD doesn’t exist for paying customers yet..

Unless you count some visualizations.
View attachment 512289

Hey....where is the FSD solid line in the picture to show that FSD is on?

I heard that the 2 lane markers change into a single line when activated. Is that true?

 

[ElectricIAC]

I heard from a birdee that FSD does something with lane changing.

Can someone go out and try to have EAP lane change and let us know if that works?

If you have two cars both with HW 2.5, one with EAP, one with FSD. Both will behave the same and have the same functionality.

I’ll give you divergence in that a HW3 car with FSD will get back out of the passing lane after overtaking. But how do we know a HW3 car with EAP wouldn’t do the same?

Perhaps this bug isn’t so much a bug as it is intentional decontenting of EAP. Which looks worse?

 

[Knightshade]

Hey....where is the FSD solid line in the picture to show that FSD is on?

I heard that the 2 lane markers change into a single line when activated. Is that true?

No- that happens when you activate Nav on AP.

Which is part of EAP as well.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Hey....where is the FSD solid line in the picture to show that FSD is on?

I heard that the 2 lane markers change into a single line when activated. Is that true?

That would be NoAP. A feature present on EAP and not exclusive to FSD.

 

[Garlan Garner]

If you have two cars both with HW 2.5, one with EAP, one with FSD. Both will behave the same and have the same functionality.

I’ll give you divergence in that a HW3 car with FSD will get back out of the passing lane after overtaking. But how do we know a HW3 car with EAP wouldn’t do the same?

Perhaps this bug isn’t so much a bug as it is intentional decontenting of EAP. Which looks worse?

My 2.5 changes lanes. The same way my 3.0 does.
My 2.5 exited at ramps. The same way my 3.0 does.
My 2.5 changed lanes to follow route. The same way my 3.0 does.

I think someone has a broken 2.5.

 

[Garlan Garner]

That would be NoAP. A feature present on EAP and not exclusive to FSD.

So....Tesla's website is wrong?

This is what it says comes with AP.

Enables your car to steer, accelerate and brake automatically for other vehicles and pedestrians within its lane.

This is what it says about FSD.

• Navigate on Autopilot: automatic driving from highway on-ramp to off-ramp including interchanges and overtaking slower cars.
• Auto Lane Change: automatic lane changes while driving on the highway.
• Autopark: both parallel and perpendicular spaces.
• Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really.

This is what it says about the future.

• Recognize and respond to traffic lights and stop signs.
• Automatic driving on city streets.

Are they wrong?

Are you grandfathered in because you had the now antiquated EAP before a certain date? Is EAP still available?

 

[ICE collector]

Good afternoon everyone,

After 10 months with EAP, I have mixed feelings on the whole thing. I think autopilot is fantastic, and use it every day.

But I find NOA to be an extremely frustrating experience because of how it manages the lane I'm in. It wants to change lanes whenever the car in front of me is going 2 MPH slower, at which point it cuts off the guy next to me, and stays parked in front of him for the next couple miles until it decides to move over. Taking exit ramps automatically is nice, but overall I don't find NOA to be helpful, which adds no value to me.

I was really excited for Enhanced Summon to be released. But after awkwardly blocking parking lots a couple times, I realized in current form it's not useful for anything other than a mostly empty parking lot. I would much rather it be cautious than risk hitting things, but if it has to be THIS cautious to be safe, I don't find it useful.

At this point, FSD isn't yet available, but after seeing how NOA and enhanced summon have been implemented, I have a tough time being optimistic. If are making another purchase today, I would opt for the standard autopilot and nothing more. I'm curious to know what you guys think? Is it worth forking over the money with the expectation that these features and FSD will evolve and be great? Or do you think it's unlikely they will add $7000 in value to your driving experience?

I don't know of there are a lot of Tesla owners with NoA in MN, but its the likely issue; so you’re going to have to teach it; thats what the cameras are for, when you see it going to cut some off or swerve out the lene, you need to correct, because the neural net learns from your driving behavior & environment, & shares that information with other cars; you’re still responsible for the rules of the road,, so if your NoA start to attempt cutting off other cars, you have the power of steering & only you can prevent cutting off because you're behind the steering wheel. I Sorry for the ramble, but getting cut off is dangerous.

 

[ElectricIAC]

I’ll post the chart again:

Note that until the last three columns, EAP and FSD have exactly the same feature sets. The last two features are unrealized (at least to paying customers) — I’ll give you stop sign and traffic light recognition but only partially since it doesn’t actually do anything with that data except display it.

 

[rdskill]

The biggest failing of AP, EAP and FSD is that when you really need it... it can't work. Hard rain (not even really that heavy), snow, ice, glare, and it goes unavailable.

With just AP I am really happy with how it works during rush hour traffic making it a breeze. Score 1 for AP.

I wish we could disable the braking based on bogus mapping of speed limits. The guy that filed that complaint for unintended acceleration should have filed for Unintended Braking while at freeway speeds. No fun going from 70 to 35 in heavy traffic because you in the second lane from the right.

I also think Tesla will eventually have to drop the $7k price for FSD to stay competitive. By the time they get around to HW5 (HW2.5 isn't cutting it) and FSD being "non beta" there will be other systems coming online.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I’ll post the chart again:
View attachment 512290

Note that until the last three columns, EAP and FSD have exactly the same feature sets. The last two features are unrealized (at least to paying customers) — I’ll give you stop sign and traffic light recognition but only partially since it doesn’t actually do anything with that data except display it.

Until the last 3 columns?

I'm commenting on current options. They don't sell EAP anymore.

You do realize that EAP was FSD and that they capped EAP features when it became FSD?

 

[ElectricIAC]

Yeah. Poor mapping data is to blame for those braking events. They should add a tab to disconnect speed limit and set max for these occasions.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Until the last 3 columns?

I'm commenting on current options. They don't sell EAP anymore.

Correct. One doesn’t have the option to just get EAP anymore so you’re stuck with “all or nothing” essentially.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Correct. One doesn’t have the option to just get EAP anymore so you’re stuck with “all or nothing” essentially.

Stuck? You don't have to turn anything on.

I have FSD.

When I turn off NOA....I essentially have the current version of AP.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

While the features of EAP+FSD and AP+FSD are the same, I believe the language about availability of those features changed significantly. I remember EAP+FSD having something about being able to automatically drive somewhere with no input from the driver most of the time, and AP+FSD dropped that language.

 

[Garlan Garner]

While the features of EAP+FSD and AP+FSD are the same, I believe the language about availability of those features changed significantly. I remember EAP+FSD having something about being able to automatically drive somewhere with no input from the driver most of the time, and AP+FSD dropped that language.

EAP and FSD NEVER said that if you purchased the package that IT WOULD drive somewhere with no input from the driver. NEVER.

That's autonomy level 5. Tesla NEVER said that.


I am fully aware that level 5 autonomy is a goal of Tesla and that they are looking to do it in the future, but nothing was ever SOLD as level 5 autonomy.

 

[ElectricIAC]

Stuck? You don't have to turn anything on.

I have FSD.

When I turn off NOA....I essentially have the current version of AP.

I guess maybe that’s why your car does 0-60 in 2.7s too.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I guess maybe that’s why your car does 0-60 in 2.7s too.

Come on over. Experience it for yourself.

or go to the track where Drive Times got his 2.8. He wouldn't mind showing you his 2.8 run. He was the one who inspired me to go out and try it for myself.

https://electrek.co/2019/11/14/tesl...cceleration-dips-below-3-sec-software-update/

 

[PRLM3]

Not sure I care so much about OTA updates...

Yeah ... can't see how anyone would possible say that. Picked up my 3 in 12/18 and sure most updates are small and incremental and near insignificant like in any software application, but there have also been major and substantial upgrades that were incredibly valuable to me. In particular, v10.0 brought huge improvements to EAP/NOA (see other thread). Less important, but as an avid music lover and spotify subscriber I was very pleased to see that come native to onscreen experience. On multiple occasions while waiting for wife in various excursions I have been very happy to be able to watch and listen to YouTube videos in the newly released Tesla theater. All those features came via OTA update -- and I never paid a dime for them. OTA updates are a major value add and a huge advantage over competition in my opinion.

 

[omgwtfbyobbq]

EAP and FSD NEVER said that if you purchased the package that IT WOULD drive somewhere with no input from the driver. NEVER.

That's autonomy level 5. Tesla NEVER said that.


I am fully aware that level 5 autonomy is a goal of Tesla and that they are looking to do it in the future, but nothing was ever SOLD as level 5 autonomy.

Seriously? Not only are you misquoting me, but then you're using that to rant about level 5 autonomy, which I said nothing about.

Back on topic, Tesla has stated for several years that FSD is designed to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver's seat. That's not level 5, just really good level 2, maybe level 3, with the driver having to take control at times.

The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat.

What changed over the past year or two is the statement about the system's safety being at least twice as good as the average human driver. That was in older versions of the autopilot page, but is not in recent versions.

https://web.archive.org/web/20170209190258/https://www.tesla.com/autopilot

 

[PRLM3]

Wait, I have AP1 and have always been able to change lanes without disabling autopilot. I just signal and as long as the next lane is clear, the car takes care of it. Are you guy talking about something else?

That is absolutely correct -- that's how it works and I'm on HW2.5 with EAP in a 3. Ironically, I use EAP with NOA *a lot* on long drives, and it was the wife who was on EAP without NOA who discovered this. I woke up as she was changing lanes and went "hey... I didn't know that!"