Garlan Garner
Banned
20% smaller on the outside? 10% smaller on the inside? What's "far" about that?
Far Different? Yes. Far worse? No.
There are tons of people who would ask for a BMW M3 over a 7 series.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Poll: Model 3 Dissuasion?
- Thread starter Tam
- Start date
20% smaller on the outside? 10% smaller on the inside? What's "far" about that?
Far Different? Yes. Far worse? No.
There are tons of people who would ask for a BMW M3 over a 7 series.
The 3 will be awesome but don't think the S/X will "look their age" for a long, long time. I used summon yesterday to nudge my car a few feet in a parking lot and the people around me were dumbfounded wondering what type of black magic I was using to remotely move my car...and that was only summon.
The normal answer car manufacturers have for the issue of aging models are discount campaigns. Towards the end of a car model's lifecycle, you start getting more value for your money. You get more things standard, different kind of "packs" are offered at discounted prices... so you have a reason to buy into the outgoing model. The pricepoint itself doesn't necessarily change, but through discounts and new kinds of packs the effective value for money goes up a lot.
Tesla's method of continuous change (I won't say improvement because not all changes are for the better) and lack of discount and advertising campaings make it that much harder for them to move older models. I get it that the "reverse discounts" and other quarterly pricing games they play sort of act in a similar manner, and this anti-selling of Model 3 in public is part of their tactics, but I wonder how effective they are in the long term and how much collateral damage they might cause .
Especially compared to simply the normal way of using discounts and advertising as a way to keep older models appealing...
Tesla's method of continuous change (I won't say improvement because not all changes are for the better) and lack of discount and advertising campaings make it that much harder for them to move older models. I get it that the "reverse discounts" and other quarterly pricing games they play sort of act in a similar manner, and this anti-selling of Model 3 in public is part of their tactics, but I wonder how effective they are in the long term and how much collateral damage they might cause .
Especially compared to simply the normal way of using discounts and advertising as a way to keep older models appealing...
To me the Model S already looks its age from the rear. The nose facelift was successful, though.
As for the interior, it is not looking new anymore, that's for sure. Once Model 3 is in the showrooms, it will look ancient to some.
This is nothing new - this is an issue all car manufacturers face when models overlap in age. That current Audi A8 will look pretty darn aged by the time it is replaced, compared to the rest of the fleet - and then for a short while it will be the newest thing in town...
This could be helped to an extent by more facelifts, sure. And by offering discounts and other incentives to keep the older models moving. And by factoring in lower sales for older models later in their lifecycles...
You may have mis understood...I'm not critical of it being smaller but simply due to it's smaller size it won't be as roomy, have the cargo capacity or driving characteristics of the S/X. My wife doesn't really want a car as large as the S for bopping around town so my 3 reservation will be her car.
Then why are there so many threads, where people argue that the Model 3 PXXD will be quicker, or that it will have more range, or that it will come with AP standard, or with an awesome new HUD... Elon clarifications were necessary, not to boost S sales, but to keep us from over hyping.
Just read through this thread, to get what I am talking about. Model 3 Ludicrous 2.0 seconds flat?!!
But there are many more examples for us hyping up something so high, that Tesla just won't be able to impress anymore. And I still think there are more than enough, that think the Model S will be only marginally better, than a Model 3 for halve the price. It will have self presenting doors, a second screen and more boot space, that should be worth 35k, right?
I'm not sure where you live but out here on Cape Cod my S is a showstopper wherever I go(and I live in the land of Range Rovers, Porches etc.)...and that's not going away anytime soon.
I had expected for my Model 3 to have all the same features and performance as my P85D but 20% smaller and would have paid 20% less than the P85D. What a disappointment!
N5329K
Active Member
I passed on a Model S because it was too expensive, way too big on the outside and somewhat cramped in the back seats on the inside. The Model 3 is affordable, not too big on the outside and has better headroom on the inside.
I do not pine for self-presenting door handles.
Until I see one, until I sit in one, until I drive one and find out otherwise, these features make the Model 3 the superior car for me.
Robin
I do not pine for self-presenting door handles.
Until I see one, until I sit in one, until I drive one and find out otherwise, these features make the Model 3 the superior car for me.
Robin
Model S starts at ~$70K and goes up to ~$168K
Model 3 starts at ~$35K and goes up to ?
I started my Tesla search with a a model 3 in mind and came to the following conclusions:
1) I did not want to wait any longer ....model 3 in my case was looking like 2019 delivery at best
2) I want to get off fossil fuel ASAP and do my part to reduce my personal CO2 emissions
3) Model 3 at the low end will be just that ..... bare bones , black, and zero extra features (so Elon is spot on with this point)
4) Model 3 is mass market EV ... it looks to be a great sedan... however it is not a cheap car!
5) Model S is in its 6th year of production ... way up the learning curve ... model 3 is for early very adopters so the lower price will likely come with its own costs .....defects etc. especially for year-one(2017) vehicles ....
6) I would also speculate that the Model S will have a much higher residual value than model 3 , I had also investigated purchasing a model S CPO in making my decision and I could not justify CPO vs. new ...model S residual values at least in CPO market are quite good...
So if you can figure out how to afford it ... i would recommend bare bones Model S (which is a fantastic EV btw) and add AP /FSD over time as it improves in reliability and safety
any way ....my bare bones Metallic Silver Model S 75(i did go for the paint
) is scheduled for 5/23 delivery in Brooklyn
Model 3 starts at ~$35K and goes up to ?
I started my Tesla search with a a model 3 in mind and came to the following conclusions:
1) I did not want to wait any longer ....model 3 in my case was looking like 2019 delivery at best
2) I want to get off fossil fuel ASAP and do my part to reduce my personal CO2 emissions
3) Model 3 at the low end will be just that ..... bare bones , black, and zero extra features (so Elon is spot on with this point)
4) Model 3 is mass market EV ... it looks to be a great sedan... however it is not a cheap car!
5) Model S is in its 6th year of production ... way up the learning curve ... model 3 is for early very adopters so the lower price will likely come with its own costs .....defects etc. especially for year-one(2017) vehicles ....
6) I would also speculate that the Model S will have a much higher residual value than model 3 , I had also investigated purchasing a model S CPO in making my decision and I could not justify CPO vs. new ...model S residual values at least in CPO market are quite good...
So if you can figure out how to afford it ... i would recommend bare bones Model S (which is a fantastic EV btw) and add AP /FSD over time as it improves in reliability and safety
any way ....my bare bones Metallic Silver Model S 75(i did go for the paint
) is scheduled for 5/23 delivery in Brooklyn
Garlan Garner
Banned
Almost.
I believe my Model 3 will be 20% smaller and at least 60% cheaper than Model S.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Are you Elon in disguise?Model S starts at ~$70K and goes up to ~$168K
Model 3 starts at ~$35K and goes up to ?
I started my Tesla search with a a model 3 in mind and came to the following conclusions:
1) I did not want to wait any longer ....model 3 in my case was looking like 2019 delivery at best
2) I want to get off fossil fuel ASAP and do my part to reduce my personal CO2 emissions
3) Model 3 at the low end will be just that ..... bare bones , black, and zero extra features (so Elon is spot on with this point)
4) Model 3 is mass market EV ... it looks to be a great sedan... however it is not a cheap car!
5) Model S is in its 6th year of production ... way up the learning curve ... model 3 is for early very adopters so the lower price will likely come with its own costs .....defects etc. especially for year-one(2017) vehicles ....
6) I would also speculate that the Model S will have a much higher residual value than model 3 , I had also investigated purchasing a model S CPO in making my decision and I could not justify CPO vs. new ...model S residual values at least in CPO market are quite good...
So if you can figure out how to afford it ... i would recommend bare bones Model S (which is a fantastic EV btw) and add AP /FSD over time as it improves in reliability and safety
any way ....my bare bones Metallic Silver Model S 75(i did go for the paint
Model S starts at ~$70K and goes up to ~$168K
Model 3 starts at ~$35K and goes up to ?
I started my Tesla search with a a model 3 in mind and came to the following conclusions:
1) I did not want to wait any longer ....model 3 in my case was looking like 2019 delivery at best
2) I want to get off fossil fuel ASAP and do my part to reduce my personal CO2 emissions
3) Model 3 at the low end will be just that ..... bare bones , black, and zero extra features (so Elon is spot on with this point)
4) Model 3 is mass market EV ... it looks to be a great sedan... however it is not a cheap car!
5) Model S is in its 6th year of production ... way up the learning curve ... model 3 is for early very adopters so the lower price will likely come with its own costs .....defects etc. especially for year-one(2017) vehicles ....
6) I would also speculate that the Model S will have a much higher residual value than model 3 , I had also investigated purchasing a model S CPO in making my decision and I could not justify CPO vs. new ...model S residual values at least in CPO market are quite good...
So if you can figure out how to afford it ... i would recommend bare bones Model S (which is a fantastic EV btw) and add AP /FSD over time as it improves in reliability and safety
any way ....my bare bones Metallic Silver Model S 75(i did go for the paint
IMO unless you really need a Tesla sooner or are convinced you are not buying a Model 3, it makes absolutely no sense to buy a Model S in Q2.
Wait until Model 3 unveil and see how fast you can get one, is simply smart at this stage. The unveil is only two months away.
Plus there is a real chance (maybe not a big chance, but a real chance) some new hardware feature will come alongside Model 3 ramp-up that Q3 built Model S/X will get as well.
Then you can order Model S with much more knowledge, if that is still what you want.
Waiting makes sense, especially if you are teeter-tottering between a barebones Model S and a Model 3.
Funny .... nope .....good luck with model 3 that will be my second Tesla !
not teetering pulled trigger
No teetering ...pulled trigger on Model S bare bones ... i think many folks are being unrealistic model 3 capabilities for $35K ... again i personally would never purchase a year 1 vehicle too much implied risk
If you are sure you do not want a Model 3, then this point has less value for you, of course. My recommendation was for people who are choosing between 3 and S.
And why would you compare a barebones Model S and a $35k Model 3? My comparison would be $70k Model S and $60-70k Model 3 obviously.
My point is that come Q3 we know so much more about the next step in the Tesla story - and that step may have feature implications on Model S/X as well (if something changes with Model 3, it must change for Model S/X at the same time) - that this is IMO very valuable information for a Tesla buyer that might be in the market for either.
If I was buying a ~$70k Tesla sedan today, I would definitely wait what Q3 brings.
T34ME
Active Member
Model 3 is a superior car compared to Model S for my needs, despite what Elon says.
- less than half the cost
- smaller on the exterior (easier to park and fit in my garage)
- no 'stache' on the front end
- lower Cd
- newest battery technology
- greenhouse interior with glass roof
- lower cost to maintain (less complex, lower cost of tires, etc.)
- more of them on the road which means eventually more independent services opportunities at lower cost
- I'm sure there are more
- less than half the cost
- smaller on the exterior (easier to park and fit in my garage)
- no 'stache' on the front end
- lower Cd
- newest battery technology
- greenhouse interior with glass roof
- lower cost to maintain (less complex, lower cost of tires, etc.)
- more of them on the road which means eventually more independent services opportunities at lower cost
- I'm sure there are more
do not need air suspension, or autopilot, or door handles, or rear child seat, or 400 HP or even AWD, just need a model 3 and soon!
Thanks for pointing that out and I agree with you but unfortunately, I can't edit the thread due to automatic time limit.
I am a victim of aggressive marketing. When I heard Elon said "do not think that Model 3 is somehow superior to Model S", I would immediately think of the opposite: if it's not more range then it's less, if it's not high then it must be low, not superior then it must be inferior...
However, there's another alternative: could it be equal or same as
Last edited:
Good point!
Model S 60 kWh is rated at 210 miles while preliminary number from Model 3 is 215 miles with almost half-off price!
As el crucero mentioned, while Model S has been using older cell 18650, Model 3 will use latest tech of 2170 cells.
